HHO producation failed

[chris0147]

Hey guys,

Today, I have carried out to make the hydrogen production, but unfortunately it doesn't work! The problem from what I saw that there was a little water boiled next to the ring terminal on the right side next to the plates, but the electrical doesn't connected to the plates to make the water to boils. I think that I nearly got successful there, but I guess but I am not sure, the electrical doesn't connected to each of the plate to make the water boiling or there could be not enough power in the electrical circuit.


However, I have tested on the battery using with digital multimeter. The battery have got 11.38v, so I am sure that why it should be working properly. I can confirmed that the electrical did connected as series circuit but it did not connected as parallel circuit (due to the electrical doesn't connected to the plates) and I also confirmed that the electrical did connected to the bolt from the ring terminal but it did not connected to each plate to make the water boiling.


Do you know why it failed and what I should I do to make it work it properly?


Thanks! :)

[lhazleton]

Chris,
You're going to have to post a bunch more information about your reactor if you want any help. What size are your plates? Is it a wet or dry-cell? What is your electrolyte? How many amps. is it drawing?
Photo's would be a great help. The water isn't supposed to boil. The current separates the H2 & O molecules, forcing them into their gaseous states.

[chris0147]

Hey lhazleton,

Thanks for your quick response, I am sorry that I have forgot to included the information. The size of the plate I made are 4.8cm height and 3cm wide, the plate I uses are stainless steel 304. I have already made 5 plates to make hydrogen produce. I don't know how many amps I am using, possibly 24amp but I am not sure. I am using wet cells for now, it is just for a small testing before I would be able to use dry cells in the near future, only when I get successful first. However, the electrolytes I uses are potassium hydroxide.



Anyway, do you know why the electrical doesn't connected to the plate to make the water boiling, is it because it doesn't get contact with the plate or there could be not enough power?

[oicu812]

if your reading 11.8 volts from a 12 volt battery your battery is compleatly dead. your better off testing with a DC power supply.

[lhazleton]

Unless I'm reading something wrong, your plates are only 4.8 x 3 cm.?
That's 1.8 x 1.2 inches, giving a surface area of 5.66 sq. in., or 14.4 sq.cm..
That's extremely small. With 5 plates, I'm assuming you have them arranged as -NNN+. It's going to produce more steam than hydroxy using only 3 neutral plates.

[chris0147]

@oicu812: The battery is fully working. I have tested them with the DCV. The DCV on the battery is 11.8. How do you know that the battery is dead? I don't have enough money to buy DC power supply. It may cost me alot! :(



@lhazleton: why do you think that the plates are too small?? According to my friend, he said that it should work well either plate 304 or 316. I can't see why it should work. I have diagnosis and found there was no voltage current flow on the plates, no amps. What the problem could be? can the problem be with the bolts, who doesn't get enough contacts with the plates??

[myoldyourgold]

A fully charged battery in good condition when fully charged should have some where between 12.2 volts to 12.8 volts. Just measuring a battery with a volt meter will not show you if it is charged or not. You need to test a battery under load to do this. Special testers are made for this. You can also test the specific gravity. A battery could show 12 volts on a volt meter yet not even make a clicking sound if you tried to start your car. An easy test is to put this battery in your car and try to start it.

[chris0147]

Well, I am definitely sure that the battery should be in a good working order. However, my main problem is that the plates has no voltage and there is no amps in the plates. I have tried to make the terminals contact with the plate, but the electrical doesn't get through it. The switches got blown after there was too much resistance in the circuits. There are plenty of voltage stored in the battery, so I am not sure why the electrical doesn't get through the plate. The plate I uses are stainless steel 304.



However, do you have any idea why the electrical doesn't get through the plate??


I'd find it strange why the electrical doesn't get through it.

Any suggests?

[myoldyourgold]

What type of electrolyte are you using or are you using plain water?

[chris0147]

I am using KOH and distilled water, but the plates won't make the water to boils due to something wrong with electrical won't get direct in the plate....You would have to tell me in what situation that I can force the electrical to get direct in the plate??



Thanks!

[chris0147]

Please can someone tell me why the electrical doesn't get through in the stainless steel plate??

As I am using 24v battery which it has got 11.40v in it, I only needs minimum 10v for a small hydrogen produce.

I cannot see why the electrical doesn't get through it.


Any idea how to solve it??

[myoldyourgold]

I am sorry Sir, but it is very difficult to help with out knowing all the information. I still believe that the battery is the problem. Even with a bad connection you would make some gas if the battery was producing any amps pushing the volts. If you have some shorted cells in the battery and that is why you are only getting 11 volts out of a 24 volt battery it will not work. If this is an old style battery no longer made in most countries with the connection between the cells on the top of the battery and you can tap into 6 cells (12V) then you should have 12 volts not 11.

Unless you have some kind of short in your reactor gas will be made even with a poor connection. Is this an open bath reactor and exactly how are each plate connected?

[astrocady]

The switches got blown after there was too much resistance in the circuits.

Any suggests?

I think this statement could be the crux of your problem, Chris.

I assume that by switches, you mean circuit breakers. Circuit breakers blow then the resistance gets too LOW, as in a direct short, causing too much amperage flow.

There is also the issue of only getting 11 volts out of a 24 volt battery. Tell me, when did you measure the 11 volts? Is it at 11 volts when connected to nothing? Or is at 24 volts when connected to nothing and 11 volts when connected to your cell? If so, then you cell could be shorted out.

[chris0147]

I think this statement could be the crux of your problem, Chris.

I assume that by switches, you mean circuit breakers. Circuit breakers blow then the resistance gets too LOW, as in a direct short, causing too much amperage flow.

There is also the issue of only getting 11 volts out of a 24 volt battery. Tell me, when did you measure the 11 volts? Is it at 11 volts when connected to nothing? Or is at 24 volts when connected to nothing and 11 volts when connected to your cell? If so, then you cell could be shorted out.


Well, I used 25A switch, so I would then be able to controls the circuit if I finds the problem. The switch got blown after there was too much resistance in the circuits. I will now try to use the clips to avoid me of wasting my money by keep buying the switch.

Apart from this, I am still trying to sort my problem out by connected the plates as series, but the electrical doesn't get through it. Do you know what the main problem could be??


I really hope that it could be the battery, as if not then, I am going to hate myself for making another plates. I know that I don't have to, but I needs to know whether the electrical can still get through the stainless steel because they are special metal. I can't still see why the electrical doesn't get through it. I have tested the 24v battery yesterday using with digital multimeter, I measured the battery and found that the battery has got 11 volts. When the wires connected with the plates and the battery as parallel circuit, there was 10.37volts in the ring terminals when I connected to the cell. But, there was no amps or voltage in the plates. I'd find this strange...



I hope that you will probably know the real answer what the main problem could be!

[astrocady]

I think my best suggestion would be for you to do research on basic electricity. I don't know if it electrical knowledge or a launguage problem, be we all keep going round and round.

IF you have a 25A breaker in your circuit, it would only blow if the circut resistance is too LOW, not too high.

IF you indeed have a switch in your curcuit that is mearly rated at 25A, once again a high resistance would have no effect on it. A very, very low resistance, like a direct short, could overheat the switch causing it to malfunction.

think of it this way -- a large copper wire running directly from the + to the - of a battery could be circuit with very LOW resistance -- a direct short -- and LOTS of current (amps) would flow. A piece of string connecting the + and - of a battery would be a circuit of extremely HIGH resistance -- the string is actually a non-condutor -- and NO current will flow.

It's all basis ohms law, and without a good understanding of that law and it's assorted formulas, you will never master even the most basic of electrical projects.

Lastely, if you're measuring 11 volts from a 24 volt battery, that should tell you that something is wrong -- either with the battery, your measuring equipment/technique, or your basic understanding or translation of electrical terms.

[chris0147]

Ok whatever you said, but I know some aren't the true. I know quite a lot about electricity, how they acts and how they are works. I don't needs to go and study even if you should to. Basically, are you sure that the battery could be the problem that causes short circuits??


My friend gave the 24v battery to me, so I may now realised why the hydrogen produce we took are failed. I might go and buy a new battery from a local shop, because I need a new battery for my car. And my car battery are too old, need to get a new one. So I would use my car battery or the new battery if that would be a good idea??

[D.O.G]

Well, I am definitely sure that the battery should be in a good working order. However, my main problem is that the plates has no voltage and there is no amps in the plates. I have tried to make the terminals contact with the plate, but the electrical doesn't get through it. The switches got blown after there was too much resistance in the circuits. There are plenty of voltage stored in the battery, so I am not sure why the electrical doesn't get through the plate. The plate I uses are stainless steel 304.



However, do you have any idea why the electrical doesn't get through the plate??


I'd find it strange why the electrical doesn't get through it.

Any suggests?

This sounds like you have too little resistance in the circuit - a short circuit in your wiring or plates.

[astrocady]

Okay
( set newbeHelpMode = "off" )
Stupid Steve over and out

[BioFarmer93]

Chris0147-
When 24V battery at 11.4V, battery very very dead- NO Amps to push electricity through stainless steel, NO h2 bubbles. Show simple picture of your unit, as +00000- or +-+-+-+- or +000-000+000-000+ . 0 is neutral plate, with no electricity wire to it. Show how you make yours so we can help.
VERY IMPORTANT- NEVER be rude to person here that have "mentor" near name and picture. If you are rude 3 times, you will be located by secret police and tortured until you apologize and beg to be forgiven. We have secret police unit on every continent for this thing- you have been warned.

[myoldyourgold]

It's no secrete any longer!!:D

[chris0147]

Chris0147-
When 24V battery at 11.4V, battery very very dead- NO Amps to push electricity through stainless steel, NO h2 bubbles. Show simple picture of your unit, as +00000- or +-+-+-+- or +000-000+000-000+ . 0 is neutral plate, with no electricity wire to it. Show how you make yours so we can help.
VERY IMPORTANT- NEVER be rude to person here that have "mentor" near name and picture. If you are rude 3 times, you will be located by secret police and tortured until you apologize and beg to be forgiven. We have secret police unit on every continent for this thing- you have been warned.


Thanks for your advise BioFarmer93, I will now know why the amps doesn't push through stainless steel. Would I have to recharge on the 24v battery using with the battery charger?? According to the label on the battery charger, it only support 12v, so it would not be able to recharge for 24v. Please let me know if I am wrong.




Okay, here it the picture of my unit.


http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6719/thecells.jpg


I am not sure what design is, but I guess that it would be +-+-+.


And please don't try to make me laughs, I can't be located by a secret police. As this is internet, it is only a forum and we advise to help each other, being rude means nothing for everybody. You might be located by a secret police lol :D

[BioFarmer93]

Chris0147- Please take 1 more photograph, close to unit and from other side. I think I am seeing the problem but I wish to be certain I see it correctly before I say answer. Also, you are correct about battery charger. You must use 12v battery. Full charge on 12v battery is 13.4v, not 12v. 12v battery must be charged full again if only showing 12v on meter. 24v battery with full charge will show 26.5v on meter.

[BeaverRat]

Chris, you should do some research on basic electricity before you start building a cell...

Anyway, it appears to me that your leads are actually pretty well isolated from the plates themselves.You will only get a minuscule current flow because your leads will conduct slightly through the electrolyte. I can't quite tell from the single picture, but from what I can see, the output + and - off the battery must have direct contact with the actual power plates for anything to work. BTW, use a 12 volt battery, and add 1 or 2 more bi-polar plates. Then you will make hydrogen, not steam.

[AsTheSun]

this looks like +NNNNNN- in an open bath. can that setup work in an open bath at all?

[H2OPWR]

Thanks for your advise BioFarmer93, I will now know why the amps doesn't push through stainless steel. Would I have to recharge on the 24v battery using with the battery charger?? According to the label on the battery charger, it only support 12v, so it would not be able to recharge for 24v. Please let me know if I am wrong.




Okay, here it the picture of my unit.


http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6719/thecells.jpg


I am not sure what design is, but I guess that it would be +-+-+.


And please don't try to make me laughs, I can't be located by a secret police. As this is internet, it is only a forum and we advise to help each other, being rude means nothing for everybody. You might be located by a secret police lol :D

Chris, From your picture the lead with the black insulation looks like it is insulated from the plate. Remove that nylon washer and I think your problem will go away. From your posts it is obvious that we have a language problem and you seem to be making everyone mad at you. Please tone it down and everyone will help.

Larry

[H2OPWR]

Chris, You have several other problems with that design. First, You can not let those terminal ends ever contact the water. They will corrode and fail. Second, That copper wire can never contact the water or even be inside your cell. It will corrode and arc. You will eventually explode that device and may get hurt or worse. You really need to do some research on building a cell. I would hate to see anyone injured by a device exploding.

Larry

[BioFarmer93]

Guys, that's why I wanted another photo, to be sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing- I'm pretty sure he is using some kind of translation program like Google translate, only not as good. I don't think he means to come across like a jerk, I think it's a combination of poor translation, lack of understanding what's actually happening in a cell and perhaps some other form of electrical experience that doesn't really lend itself to our application that would make him say that he knows about electricity.

[myoldyourgold]

Guys my take on this picture is a dead short. Positive and negative connected to the same bolt. Might as well connect them to each other. Plates might also be shorting out unless the bolts are insulated and you can't see it in the picture. Just one big short. Only way for this Gentleman to solve his problem is read and study a lot more. All the answers are posted on this and other forums, you just need to do some reading.

At the very least he needs to shrink rap both bolts so there is no connection to the plates or the wires in regards to the bolts. Then connect the wires over the shrink wrap and have the wires only making contact with the end plates not the bolt. No short and it will work. Dangerous, yes, my advice is as I said above is to do much more research or someone could get hurt.

[AsTheSun]

Guys my take on this picture is a dead short. Positive and negative connected to the same bolt. Might as well connect them to each other. Plates might also be shorting out unless the bolts are insulated and you can't see it in the picture. Just one big short. Only way for this Gentleman to solve his problem is read and study a lot more. All the answers are posted on this and other forums, you just need to do some reading.

^^ swap out your bolts for nylon ones

[myoldyourgold]

swap out your bolts for nylon ones
Today 07:11 AM

Nylon will work but not a good long term solution. Nylon when it gets hot softens up and things begin to get lose. In this case the connections being in the gas or in the electrolyte would ark and cause an explosion. Scrap the whole thing and start over again after doing some more reading. We all had to do this when we started. You are not born with this knowledge. This Gentleman is trying and he at least gets a grade for effort and the best help I can offer is to read and study what others have done and are doing.

[AsTheSun]

Nylon will work but not a good long term solution. Nylon when it gets hot softens up and things begin to get lose. In this case the connections being in the gas or in the electrolyte would ark and cause an explosion. Scrap the whole thing and start over again after doing some more reading. We all had to do this when we started. You are not born with this knowledge. This Gentleman is trying and he at least gets a grade for effort and the best help I can offer is to read and study what others have done and are doing.

i dont see how having anything arc in the electrolyte is a problem. isnt that what the process is? doesnt arcing between the metal separate the molecules? i can see how arcing through the gas would be bad

[myoldyourgold]

i dont see how having anything arc in the electrolyte is a problem. isnt that what the process is? doesnt arcing between the metal separate the molecules? i can see how arcing through the gas would be bad



NO NO NO. An arc any where near HHO causes an explosion. Do a Google search for electrolysis explanation or electrolysis explained. Many pages of very good information there which I would only be restating. Even a static spark can set it off. Be very careful!!!

[AsTheSun]

NO NO NO. An arc any where near HHO causes an explosion. Do a Google search for electrolysis explanation or electrolysis explained. Many pages of very good information there which I would only be restating. Even a static spark can set it off. Be very careful!!!

so if the connections can arc if they're in the gas or solution, why doesnt the stainless arc continuously?

[BioFarmer93]

Yep, dead short is what I thought I was seeing also, just wanted to make sure...:eek::eek:

[myoldyourgold]

so if the connections can arc if they're in the gas or solution, why doesnt the stainless arc continuously?

I see you have not done the Google search and read what you found. One learns and retains more when they do some studying.

Short answer, there is no short in the electrolyte which is in constant contact with the plates. There is no air gap, loose connection between the electrolyte and the plate.

Bio you are dead right!!! LOL

[AsTheSun]

I see you have not done the Google search and read what you found. One learns and retains more when they do some studying.

Short answer, there is no short in the electrolyte which is in constant contact with the plates. There is no air gap, loose connection between the electrolyte and the plate.

Bio you are dead right!!!

actually i did google it. i did alot of research before i built my device, but alas, i am not able to retain knowledge the way i used to. basically it is as i figured before, but i guess i couldnt convey, electricity wont actually arc through the electrolyte, it will arc through the air, or in the gas which is suspended in the electrolyte. so, provided everything stays submerged and cooled, there should be no problem, right? i dipped my connections in plasti-dip so i think i have my bases covered, but i still want to know these things

[myoldyourgold]

i dipped my connections in plasti-dip so i think i have my bases covered, but i still want to know these things

Plastic dip will not hold up in the electrolyte and will fail. Be safe and use a design that the connections are out side the container. Many designs are out there. This is one of the many problems of a "wet cell" (bad term)

[AsTheSun]

Plastic dip will not hold up in the electrolyte and will fail. Be safe and use a design that the connections are out side the container. Many designs are out there. This is one of the many problems of a "wet cell" (bad term)

i am starting to see that a 'wet cell' is inferior on the whole. although it looks like it would stay cooler than a dry cell. also i am not using KOH yet, havent gotten around to getting any yet. will plasti-dip degrade in baking soda? i made my device about a week ago and only ran it for about a minute, enough to ensure that everything worked properly. didnt even complete the bubbler (still has an open top). instead of completing it, i will probaly make a dry cell next, or a dual chamber cell, to separate the hydrogen and oxygen

[chris0147]

Right guys, please can you all stop arguing please! It shows everyone that we are not respected to each other, as this is a forum and we should be able to help everyone out even not to argue!

Apart from this, @H2OPWR: from the picture with the red insulation, I am using it as a positive to allowed the electrical to get through the plates and the black insulation is to allowed the electrical to get out of the circuit. I have got two washers between the red and black insulation. So, should I have to remove both nylon washers for the red or black insulation??


And also, would you want me to remove the copper and changes to a correctly use of ring terminals??



I am hoping that my problem would be solve it right away...



@myoldyourgold: I have already studied a lot about the cell, that is why I have setup the cells now and I know all about electricity. I don't need to study a lot more, so thanks for this. In this case, my problem is that I made mistake. Lucky, I didn't get badly hurt. I should never let that black insulation separate with the plate itself with the nylon washer. And if it would be the same for the red insulation. I should have removed them in each side before carry out the test to make hydrogen.


We don't want to see anything to gone badly wrong and ended up being injuries, so I needs to sort myself out with the cell right now to get it right. I am taking my own safety very seriously and I don't want to be hurts....


I am NOT going to try anything to test it until you tells me some safety notice, like if I have to remove the both washers in each side and if I should buy a proper ring terminals. Can you advise me what I should do right now to get it right by change it before I would be able to do anything?


Thanks in advance!

[myoldyourgold]

Pardon me Sir, but there seems to some misunderstanding. You have one wire connected on one side of a bolt and the other connected the the other side of the same bolt. This is the same as connecting the two wires together. SHORT Use nylon bolts to solve this problem as suggested by others and make sure that your wires are only touching the two end plates (no washers between wires and the first plate on each side). Both bolts must be nylon. There should be no connection between the two wires expect the electrolyte. The current will pas through one end plate through the electrolyte to the other end plate and back to the battery. I am sorry but this is my last post on this matter. Good Luck

[chris0147]

Pardon me Sir, but there seems to some misunderstanding. You have one wire connected on one side of a bolt and the other connected the the other side of the same bolt. This is the same as connecting the two wires together. SHORT Use nylon bolts to solve this problem as suggested by others and make sure that your wires are only touching the two end plates (no washers between wires and the first plate on each side). Both bolts must be nylon. There should be no connection between the two wires expect the electrolyte. The current will pas through one end plate through the electrolyte to the other end plate and back to the battery. I am sorry but this is my last post on this matter. Good Luck



I am sorry for making you misunderstanding, but I am not good at English. All I can try is to do my best. My friend told me that I should use stainless steel bolts (one for the top and one for the bottom). He explained to me the reasons due to the electricity circuits, that is why I brought two stainless steel bolts. Can you discuss to me why I should buy nylon bolts??


How would the electricity connected to every plate when I uses nylon bolts and is it safe to use it??


As well, do I have to buy two proper ring terminals without using a copper?? I am bit concerned right now as others suggested that it would causes corrosive and explosion if I still using copper ring terminals....


Please advance...


Thanks!

[AsTheSun]

Pardon me Sir, but there seems to some misunderstanding. You have one wire connected on one side of a bolt and the other connected the the other side of the same bolt. This is the same as connecting the two wires together. SHORT Use nylon bolts to solve this problem as suggested by others and make sure that your wires are only touching the two end plates (no washers between wires and the first plate on each side). Both bolts must be nylon. There should be no connection between the two wires expect the electrolyte. The current will pas through one end plate through the electrolyte to the other end plate and back to the battery. I am sorry but this is my last post on this matter. Good Luck

i dont think anyone was being rude. i am probably the lkeast tolerant of rudeness so i feel i can judge that at least lol. chris, this is the video i primarily based my electrolyzer on. i hope you can get something out of it. there are some differences, but not too many.


http://www.ehow.com/video_4467895_assemble-hydrolyzer-make-hydrogen.html

old gold said that plastidip doesnt last long and nylon doesnt stand up to heat. thats the only differences really

[AsTheSun]

oh also i used stainless sucket covers, as they are already cut and have 2 holes in them,. i plan on using them when i make my dry cell once i become unbroke

[BioFarmer93]

Chris0147-
Build your cell like this-

[myoldyourgold]

Thank you Bio, if that does not work nothing will. :)

[AsTheSun]

looks almost exactly like mine

[chris0147]

Right okay guys, should I needs to changes some parts on the cell ...



buy nylon bolts for both side (one for top and one for bottom)
Remove the nylon washers for both end to allowed the ring terminals to get in contact with the plates.
And buy a proper ring terminals without using a copper.



Please do let me know and I will changes some parts of it.


Cheers!

[chris0147]

nobody?????????????????????

[BioFarmer93]

Chris, build a cell like the one in the picture I posted for you. When you finish it take a photograph of it and show it to us. Then someone will talk to you again.

[chris0147]

Ok BioFarmer93, I have looked your noob picture so I have changed some part of the cell. I am using the electrical supply strap. I can now see the electrical have travel to the plates and back to the battery, but I can't see the bubbers in the water. :(


I have some pictures included for you to look at the cell:


Do you know why there are no bubblers in the water?? :(

[myoldyourgold]

Kind Sir your design will not work until you CHANGE to PLASTIC bolts. You have just made a water heater. No HHO will ever be made like this only hot water.

[BioFarmer93]

Chris0147, -USE PLASTIC BOLTS!!

Maybe you looked at the noob picture, but did you READ the instructions?

Electricity MUST NOT PASS THROUGH THE BOLTS.

Electricity MUST GO ONLY TO FIRST AND LAST PLATES.

ONLY THEN WILL YOU GET BUBBLES.

[astrocady]

Roflmao :-)

[chris0147]

Chris0147, -USE PLASTIC BOLTS!!

Maybe you looked at the noob picture, but did you READ the instructions?

Electricity MUST NOT PASS THROUGH THE BOLTS.

Electricity MUST GO ONLY TO FIRST AND LAST PLATES.

ONLY THEN WILL YOU GET BUBBLES.




Kind Sir your design will not work until you CHANGE to PLASTIC bolts. You have just made a water heater. No HHO will ever be made like this only hot water.


Ok I will get one, but are you sure that it will works?? My main doubt is that it may causes short or even resistance in the circuits if the electrical don't get back to the battery. How would the electrical get back to the battery if I am using plastic bolts??

[chris0147]

Roflmao :-)

Don't try to be a smartass and laugh, maybe I think the pic below is funny for you to look at....lol n00b :p

[myoldyourgold]

Do it right it will work. You must change BOTH of them !! Your straps must touch the end plates(no washers between the straps and the end plates). Follow the drawing and instructions posted by Bio and you will not have any problems.

[astrocady]

Don't try to be a smartass and laugh, maybe I think the pic below is funny for you to look at....lol n00b :p

You are right Chris. I shouldn't laugh. But you keep exclaiming how much you know about electricity, yet you keep displaying your total lack of electrical knowledge, or willingness to accept what other say.

But as I said, I am sorry if I offended you. I will control myself and stay out of this, and all your future threads, I promise.

Please note that I did refrain from making any comment about the picture you sent me

[BioFarmer93]

Chris,
How old are you? Most adults know that you do not give the middle finger to people that are trying to help you. The man that you insulted has built many many units that work very well and are arranged the way I have shown you. Yes there is resistance, it is simply part of the process. The electricity returns to the battery through the water (electrolyte) between each plate.
The reason you were being laughed at is because you said you know so much about electricity, but you are making mistakes that I learned not to make by the time I was NINE YEARS OLD. We do not HAVE to help you, and are only doing so to help people around the world learn about HHO and what it can do. If you insult us again (your third chance, remember?) you will be ignored, maybe even banned.

[chris0147]

You are right Chris. I shouldn't laugh. But you keep exclaiming how much you know about electricity, yet you keep displaying your total lack of electrical knowledge, or willingness to accept what other say.

But as I said, I am sorry if I offended you. I will control myself and stay out of this, and all your future threads, I promise.

Please note that I did refrain from making any comment about the picture you sent me

Yeah, I know I am right. I am sorry for offended you, but you shouldn't offended me in the first place. Over the top of this, I'd find this very strange act of electrical. I knew that the electrical would get back to the battery even if I used the stainless steel bolts, but not for plastic bolts....

I just curious that if I use plastic bolts, how would the electrical get back to the battery even if I use two plastic bolts?? I am concerns that it could causes heats and if possibly to burn the stainless steel plates unless someone tells me if it do not causes any harms??


That is my main doubt. I don't want to causes any heats, resistance in the parallel circuits and make a hole for stainless steel plates. If it doesn't causes any heats, resistance in the parallel circuits and if it doesn't causes an hole for plates then I would be very grateful...

[H2OPWR]

Ok BioFarmer93, I have looked your noob picture so I have changed some part of the cell. I am using the electrical supply strap. I can now see the electrical have travel to the plates and back to the battery, but I can't see the bubbers in the water. :(


I have some pictures included for you to look at the cell:


Do you know why there are no bubblers in the water?? :(

Chris, You still have both metal straps connected to the same bolt. That will not work unless the bolt is Nylon. Your electricity is simply traveling through the bolt. All you have is a dead short through the bolt. If you are going to continue to fasten the plates together with bolts then you must change the bolts to Nylon.

Larry

[chris0147]

Chris, You still have both metal straps connected to the same bolt. That will not work unless the bolt is Nylon. Your electricity is simply traveling through the bolt. All you have is a dead short through the bolt. If you are going to continue to fasten the plates together with bolts then you must change the bolts to Nylon.

Larry

Hi Larry, yeah I still have both scraps but should I use them as metal or stainless steel? However, I have never heard electrical traveling through the nylon bolts. I thought the electrical hates nylon and plastic. So how would they get through the nylon bolts even the electrical dislike them??

And I really want to know how the electrical returns to the battery if I uses nylon bots and when I measure the circuits??

I really hope that it doesn't causes any harms by heating in the plates to make them get burns or cause a hole, not cause any resistance, sparks and I also really hope that it doesn't heats up the battery which it would blow up!

I am hoping that it is still safe to use while I can process the electrical measure in the circuits and if it doesn't causes any sparks....

[H2OPWR]

Hi Larry, yeah I still have both scraps but should I use them as metal or stainless steel? However, I have never heard electrical traveling through the nylon bolts. I thought the electrical hates nylon and plastic. So how would they get through the nylon bolts even the electrical dislike them??

And I really want to know how the electrical returns to the battery if I uses nylon bots and when I measure the circuits??

I really hope that it doesn't causes any harms by heating in the plates to make them get burns or cause a hole, not cause any resistance, sparks and I also really hope that it doesn't heats up the battery which it would blow up!

I am hoping that it is still safe to use while I can process the electrical measure in the circuits and if it doesn't causes any sparks....

Chris, The electricity will travel through the water/electrolite mix that is between the plates to complete the circut. It will not harm the stainless unless you have too much current traveling through the water. Then it will caus the water to yellow with HexCrom and rust as it leaches from the stainless. Your set up is going to use alot of power if you use much electrolite at all. Use only stainless straos. Most metals other than stainless will not work because they will oxidize quickly. As for electricity not traveling through Nylon, That is exactly the reason we keep telling you to use Nylon. You can not have electricity traveling through the bolts. The electricity MUST travel through the water to make this work.

Sooner or later you are going to have to take the word of the many that have tried to help. After all I would assume that is why you joined this forun. You have been given this advice over and over both in this thread as well as through PM's. At least by me. You have even been given pictures that show you exactly how to do this.

We have not even gone off on trying to convince you to just build a dry cell and I am not going there now.

Please go back and look at the drawing you were given earlier in this thread. Please take the advice of the many that have been patient with you and tried to help. Until you do that I am not going to answer any more questions. I am not trying to be blunt or rude but I have given you this same advice over and over. Until you follow it your device will NEVER work at all.

Larry

[rcflyn]

I doubt this is going to help, But
Chris:
Take that NEG Strap OFF your cell, and Lay it between the POS and NEG Posts of your Battery. What just happened???? You created a DEAD SHORT...
By having METAL (All be it, Stainless steel) Bolts in your Cell, you just did the EXACT same thing... You created a DEAD SHORT.... Isn't any wonder your 24 Volt battery don't show the voltage it's supposed to anymore... Isn't any wonder you're not creating any "BUBBLES"... For someone who know's about Electricity, why is it you didn't figure that one out to begin with???? I'm no electrical engineer, but holy crap, EVERYBODY has told you how to CURE your problem. You're NEVER Going to get "BUBBLES" off of a DEAD SHORT.... In all honesty, I'm surprised your BATTERY DIDN'T BLOW UP ON YOU.....
Ok, Let me rephrase that, you DID say your "SWITCHES" were going bad... LUCKY YOU!!!!!! For someone who's SSOO Concerned about "SAFETY", and has "KNOWLEDGE" about Electricity, You sure are ONE LUCKY PUPPY....
Listen to what's being told to you, Take everybodys advice, and RE-DO YOUR CELL!!!!! IF you don't, YOU WILL Be the Next Statistic that Makes us ALL LOOK SSSOOOOO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry to all the rest of you... I've refrained myself as LONG as I could... I can't BELIEVE this thread has gotten as far as it has, I've had some good chuckles, and I find myself shaking my head to the PATIENCE some of you have got... That Pic of JESUS Flipping someone off, I think we ALL know who it was really meant for..... I can't believe that was posted....

[chris0147]

Larry, thank you for the info and your advise. I'd understand how it works right now. I am sorry for keep asking you questions over and over again, but you got to realized that I don't have some knowledge that something I don't know of, like using the ring terminals on the cell and input them in the water which it will fails. Now I'd know what to do next time...I won't be using them again....

Apart from this, if I replaces the nylon bolts instead of used the stainless steel bolts and if I wish to test the electrical circuits between the both end on the plates without putting the plates in the water, is it safe to test the electrical circuits without input the cell in the water??

I am not really sure if it safe to do so, that is why the best things is to ask someone who have already know about this to tells me the safety notice, like what I can do and what I can't do. Next time I will know the answers and in the future, I won't be asking the same old questions over again. Hope you will be happy with that....


I know that you weren't being rude and tried to advise me nicely, but I didn't take it, I know it was my own fault! I didn't listened and I took notice, I thought that it was going to work for me perfectly without using the nylon bolts, but it isn't working. I know what the truth is, my own fault!

However, I will listen to you and others right now and will take yours and others advise seriously. So when I get the nylon bolts, I hope that it will works for me completely before I will move on....

[chris0147]

I doubt this is going to help, But
Chris:
Take that NEG Strap OFF your cell, and Lay it between the POS and NEG Posts of your Battery. What just happened???? You created a DEAD SHORT...


Do you want me to take that neg strap off my cell and make it gone straight without making any bent??



By having METAL (All be it, Stainless steel) Bolts in your Cell, you just did the EXACT same thing... You created a DEAD SHORT.... Isn't any wonder your 24 Volt battery don't show the voltage it's supposed to anymore... Isn't any wonder you're not creating any "BUBBLES"... For someone who know's about Electricity, why is it you didn't figure that one out to begin with????


I am really sorry about this, but my online mate gave me the wrong information. That's why I got myself wrong.... Like he said to me that I go and buy stainless steel bolts, ring terminals....etc......Now you know that it isn't not my own fault!



Ok, Let me rephrase that, you DID say your "SWITCHES" were going bad... LUCKY YOU!!!!!! For someone who's SSOO Concerned about "SAFETY", and has "KNOWLEDGE" about Electricity, You sure are ONE LUCKY PUPPY....
Listen to what's being told to you, Take everybodys advice, and RE-DO YOUR CELL!!!!! IF you don't, YOU WILL Be the Next Statistic that Makes us ALL LOOK SSSOOOOO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I will take your advise seriously. Don't try to be concerns, I know what to do and taking a lot of safety, but sometimes I find myself unsure if it safe to do so. That's why the best things is to ask someone with experience and give advise. The thing is I am not sure of, like if it safe to test the electrical without input the cell in the water while the cell has nylon bolts in it. I hope you understand this...




That Pic of JESUS Flipping someone off, I think we ALL know who it was really meant for..... I can't believe that was posted....

I am sorry about my reaction, but that guy offended me :(

[BioFarmer93]

Originally Posted by rcflyn
I doubt this is going to help, But
Chris:
Take that NEG Strap OFF your cell, and Lay it between the POS and NEG Posts of your Battery. What just happened???? You created a DEAD SHORT...
Do you want me to take that neg strap off my cell and make it gone straight without making any bent??

DO NOT DO THIS_ IT WAS MEANT TO VIOLENTLY SHOW YOUR MISTAKE!!

RC- now that he is actually doing what he is being told, we can not afford to get him burnt or blinded- hopefully he stopped before before he went through with it.

Chris, there is no way to test it except in water. Out in the air it will do nothing, it won't even get warm.

[H2OPWR]

Larry, thank you for the info and your advise. I'd understand how it works right now. I am sorry for keep asking you questions over and over again, but you got to realized that I don't have some knowledge that something I don't know of, like using the ring terminals on the cell and input them in the water which it will fails. Now I'd know what to do next time...I won't be using them again....

Apart from this, if I replaces the nylon bolts instead of used the stainless steel bolts and if I wish to test the electrical circuits between the both end on the plates without putting the plates in the water, is it safe to test the electrical circuits without input the cell in the water??

I am not really sure if it safe to do so, that is why the best things is to ask someone who have already know about this to tells me the safety notice, like what I can do and what I can't do. Next time I will know the answers and in the future, I won't be asking the same old questions over again. Hope you will be happy with that....


I know that you weren't being rude and tried to advise me nicely, but I didn't take it, I know it was my own fault! I didn't listened and I took notice, I thought that it was going to work for me perfectly without using the nylon bolts, but it isn't working. I know what the truth is, my own fault!

However, I will listen to you and others right now and will take yours and others advise seriously. So when I get the nylon bolts, I hope that it will works for me completely before I will move on....

Chris, I do not really know why I am posting this but I am. If you follow the advice and test your cell out of the water you will not have a complete circut. PLEASE UNDERSTAND!!! The water completes the circut. WTF!!

Chris LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Larry

[charly2]

Well, I tryed to stay away from making any coment on this post, but, the real problem I see is: what is going to happen when his cell finally one day produce some hho.
Chris, you should read much more before continue, the lack of information can lead you to get badly hurt or even worst.
Use the search tool and read all you can (the process itself, safety, options, cofigurations, etc.) this is the best way to learn, invest time.

Regards

[chris0147]

Chris, I do not really know why I am posting this but I am. If you follow the advice and test your cell out of the water you will not have a complete circut. PLEASE UNDERSTAND!!! The water completes the circut. WTF!!

Chris LISTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Larry


Ok Larry I understands what you are saying now and I am still following your advice, don't say I am not following this which I still am. The questions is that I was curious that was all. I learned this as a new topic, never heard of it before. I am not going to try this out and get myself badly hurts, and I know that I will not get a complete circuit if I remove the cell out of the water. What happens if I do this, will the battery heats up and blowing up??

If it not safe to test the cell out of the water, I am not going to try it out. I will only do what you have said as I am still following your advice....

[BioFarmer93]

Chris, I thought you said you know a lot about electricity??
If the circuit can not be completed outside of water, what do think will happen? NOTHING!
If nothing happens, HOW CAN IT BLOW UP YOUR BATTERY??
USE YOUR HEAD! THINK!
You never did answer my question before- How old are you?

[Bhart]

Chris, think of your hho cell like a car battery, you have a positive post and a negative post. Neither of which are connected. It is the electrolyte that covers the plates in the battery that completes the circuit. Just as in your hho generator it is the electrolyte that completes the circuit.

[chris0147]

Bhart, I understand what you are saying now. I am going to try that out when I received the plastic bolts. I just curious that if the plastic bolts would melts if the plates get too hot??

I really hope not. However, I found that there was 12.73v between negative and positive on the plates when I tested with multimeter. I guess that there was too much voltage in it. I tried to stop too much voltage in the current by using the correct ring terminals to allowed no more than 15amps. It doesn't help me there...


Can you tell me how to stop too much voltage traveling in the current flow??

[chris0147]

can someone please answer to my questions?

[astrocady]

I have gotten 3 of the. One last night, one this morning, and one just a few minutes ago.

[chris0147]

im sorry about this, but i cant find the answers through on the forum. :(

[IM2L844]

It looks like you're still using metal bolts. The electricity is traveling from one strap, straight through the bolts to the other strap and back to the battery. You must use Nylon bolts with this set up so the electricity will travel from plate to plate through the electrolyte.

[chris0147]

It looks like you're still using metal bolts. The electricity is traveling from one strap, straight through the bolts to the other strap and back to the battery. You must use Nylon bolts with this set up so the electricity will travel from plate to plate through the electrolyte.


Yeah, so I am going to change it to nylon bolts now. Will the voltage drops if I use nylon bolts, otherwise how can I reduce it??


Will the nylon bolts melts if there is heats??

[BioFarmer93]

Chris,
Yes, the voltage will drop if you use nylon bolts. Because now it has to go through the water, instead of through the bolt

No, the nylon bolts will not melt, IF you use 7 plates like I showed you in the picture.

[myoldyourgold]

Chris Sir, If you had followed the instructions given you at least 10 times before you would not be asking these questions. First do what you have been told to do then you will not need to ask the same question over and over. I think it is wise you spend time studying a lot more before you start building something. You could hurt yourself or someone else. You can not jump into water before you learn to swim unless you want to drown. It is the same with HHO!!!!!!!:)

[chris0147]

Chris,
Yes, the voltage will drop if you use nylon bolts. Because now it has to go through the water, instead of through the bolt

No, the nylon bolts will not melt, IF you use 7 plates like I showed you in the picture.

Thank you for the answers. Will it be ok for the nylon bolts as if they don't melt while I uses 5 plates??

[BioFarmer93]

NO. You MUST use 7.

5 plates will get too hot.

[chris0147]

Ok, thanks for you advice. I think I got two spare one, so I am going to get use them but will have to cut the size to make it all correct size once again!

Anyway, I have changed some parts of the cell, here it the pics.

You will see the ring terminals (what american would be called electrical crimp terminals) that got contact with the scraps without the nylon washer. I uses the washer next to the terminals to stop the electrical traveling all around on the stainless steel bolts.

I hope that they are not odd or bit fishy....

[chris0147]

anyone?????????

[chris0147]

@BioFarmer93: Did you see the picture I have post on top two?

Do you think if it good enough or if I should add 2 plates on the cell to help the heats and if it do help to reduce the voltage??

[BioFarmer93]

Chris, I have been away on vacation. Yes I now see the pictures. Yes, add two more plates to help reduce the heat and the voltage.

[tobydell]

this has to be a classic post/thread and should be essential viewing for noobies
everyone demonstrated a level of tolerance way beyond the whatever, come to think of it there is a bloke called jon (I think) who has a blog (anti hho) he is just as blinkered as Chris but perhaps for different reasons, frustrating

[lhazleton]

LOL...I forgot about this thread! I thought Gus's old buddy showed up again ;)