Bubbler keeps on sucking into generator when I shut down the engine.

[exrider1980]

Ive just started experimenting with a simple Plate system in a quart jar. I'm using a bubbler for safety and filtration. the system works great but every time I shut down the engine the bubbler's water sucks into the generator. Am I correct in assuming that a check valve in series with the vacuum port and the bubbler will alleviate my issue? Has anyone else has this problem?

[astrocady]

A couple of thing come to mind while reading your post. First, and most important IMO, is your mention of the vacuum port. You shouldn't connect you HHO supply line to a a vacuum port. It need to go into the air intake, between the air cleaner and the throttle plate.

Second is your mention of a quart jar. I certainly hope you haven't used a glass jar. If you did, throw it away. Wet cells are generally considered to be poor in general (comparied to a dry cell) but housing something that produces explosive gas in a glass container is very dangerous.

As for your bubbler problem, what is happening is that your wet cell is running hot and the liquid inside expans. When you shut it down, the liquid cools and shrinks back to it's original volume. In this process it sucks the liquid from your bubbler. There are a couple of fixes for this, the best being an expansion chamber between the tank and the bubbler, but a simple check valve before the bubbler will also work. That's what I have on my car.

[exrider1980]

I'm using a vacume port at the base of my carburetor. It is a hole in the intake manifold meant to provide a vacume source for a vacume controlled emissions system. Its injects the hho right into the atomized fuel air mixture as it leaves the carburetor and heads to the intake ports. The problem with the bubbler occurs weather im making hho or not. As soon as i turn the key off it instantly sucks the bubbler water into the generator. I'm thinking it has something to do with my carburetors throttle plates. The shafts are worn so they dont close all the way. The engine is prone to "dieseling". I have to put it into gear and let the clutch out as I shut off the engine. I'm thinking that this is causing a momentary condition of positive manifold pressure as the engine tries to roll over and then rolls back.

[lhazleton]

As Astrocady already stated; Do not hook the HHO up to a vacuum port!

[exrider1980]

Your definition of a vacume port is obviously narrower than mine. My intake manifold has a large threaded hole in it just below the carb. Thats where im going in at. If you cant tell me why thats not a good place to go dont say anything. I'm not here to talk to people who read someone else opinions and dont do thier own research or who know something and dont pass the how and the why along so they feel more intelligent. HHO forums is for the how and they why not do this and that because someone said so.

[H2OPWR]

I'm using a vacume port at the base of my carburetor. It is a hole in the intake manifold meant to provide a vacume source for a vacume controlled emissions system. Its injects the hho right into the atomized fuel air mixture as it leaves the carburetor and heads to the intake ports. The problem with the bubbler occurs weather im making hho or not. As soon as i turn the key off it instantly sucks the bubbler water into the generator. I'm thinking it has something to do with my carburetors throttle plates. The shafts are worn so they dont close all the way. The engine is prone to "dieseling". I have to put it into gear and let the clutch out as I shut off the engine. I'm thinking that this is causing a momentary condition of positive manifold pressure as the engine tries to roll over and then rolls back.

If you are hooking to vacuum at all without a one way check valve then every time you shut down the engine it will evacuate the bubbler water into the cell. It does not matter if your cell is off or on. You are sucking all the air out of the cell under vacuum. As it returns to normal atmospheric pressure the space must be filled with something. Although a check valve will fix the problem I agree with the other comments. Simply do not use vacuum. Sooner or later you will fill your intake with KOH laden water. Also you are getting the HHO when you need it least and not getting it when you need it most.

Larry

[exrider1980]

Thank you for your thoughful response. I really want to avoid the galvanic corrosion horror stories ive read about. My thought was to plumb directly into the intake manifold right below the carb because there was a steel plate right there and lots of atomized fuel coming in to keep electrolytes from building up.

[astrocady]

Thank you for your thoughful response. I really want to avoid the galvanic corrosion horror stories ive read about. My thought was to plumb directly into the intake manifold right below the carb because there was a steel plate right there and lots of atomized fuel coming in to keep electrolytes from building up.

If you build a proper system, there will be no electrolyte in your HHO to build up on anything.

[astrocady]

Your definition of a vacume port is obviously narrower than mine. My intake manifold has a large threaded hole in it just below the carb. Thats where im going in at. If you cant tell me why thats not a good place to go dont say anything. I'm not here to talk to people who read someone else opinions and dont do thier own research or who know something and dont pass the how and the why along so they feel more intelligent. HHO forums is for the how and they why not do this and that because someone said so.

If you had done your own research, even if you limited your research to this forum, you wouldn't be asking the questions you're asking, or building a system in a jar.

If you don't want the advice from those in this forum (granted, it will vary some in quality), then don't ask.

[lhazleton]

Toche' Astro.... Anyone who knows anything about an ICE knows damn well that vacuum occurs when idling or 'braking'. Why anybody would want to introduce hydroxy at that point is puzzling, unless they got 'instructions' from one of those websites that deals with mason jars, s/s wire & baking soda LOL.
I guess my years of experimenting with reactors and my N.I.A.S.E. certification doesn't count when it comes to really difficult things like 'where to inject the HHO' and other high-tec stuff like that. Duh....

[lhazleton]

Don't think he wants to hear it anyway. Guess we're a bunch of dip$hits here...

[astrocady]

One thing for sure, he's never driven a '57 chevy with vacumm powered windshield wipers up a steep hill at night during a heavy rain.

[exrider1980]

Engines have 2 kinds of vacuum. Past the throttle plate or plates is called manifold vacuum and before the throttle plates is ported vacume. Manifold vacuum increases when the throttle plates close and ported vacuum increases as the throttle plates open. All possible injection points will therefore go into vacuum in normally aspirated engines. But vacuum is not necessary to inject the hho. The generator itself provides positive pressure to move the gas. Vacuum is only a phenomenom that happens to exist. I can understand not wanting to use inject hho into a supercharged engine or turbocharged engine because of the near constant occurance of positive manifold pressure but why not a carbureted engine which has constant vaccume. My concern here is designing around corrosion issues. Some electrolyte will be vaporized in the hho has and will enter the intake. Im not saving any money by ruining a 300 dollar carberator. It seems to me that figuring out a way to inject it below the the throttle plates where the electrolyte has less oppourtunity to build up and that any build up would be somewhat rinsed by the atomized fuel air mixture.

[lhazleton]

I can surely understand your desire to not ruin any components, but the best way to ensure engine safety is to build a system that doesn't produce any steam peiod. A well built reactor may produce a minute amount of vapor, but this is taken care of with a bubbler and, if necessary, a dryer.
The reason we all prefer to inject just before the butterfly is simple: the hydroxy will mix well with the atomized gas and there will be no vacuum (ported or manifold is still negative pressure) trying to suck the E/lyte from the system. The reactor should be putting out enough pressure to continually feed the engine itself.

[exrider1980]

Is a moisture seperator designed for air compressors adequate for this purpose? Ive seen them marketed on ebay for the purpose of removing vapor from hho generation systems. Like most ebay marketing it must be questioned thoroughly before purchasing or implementing.

[lhazleton]

I'm not sure if they would work or not, to be perfectly honest with you. They might prevent free-flow of your HHO.
If you merely build a decent bubbler, you should be fine. There are plenty of designs around if you're not sure of how to build one or exactly how they work.
Basically, you need to have the gas forced through the bottom of a chamber that contains fluid (I like distilled water & vinegar). As the bubbles pass through, any KOH that has traveled with the vapors will be removed.

[H2OPWR]

Is a moisture seperator designed for air compressors adequate for this purpose? Ive seen them marketed on ebay for the purpose of removing vapor from hho generation systems. Like most ebay marketing it must be questioned thoroughly before purchasing or implementing.

I can tell you for certain that they will not work. I have tried them many times. They are designed for much higher air flow with much lower moisture content. They will do nothing at all. I ran one for one week straight with no bubbler. Lots of visible moisture coming out of the end of the tube. It only collected about a tablespoon of liquid after the week long test. The simple answer is a good bubbler. Really moisture in the gas is one of the easiest problems to overcome. The research needs to be in overcoming that damn ECU. It messes with everything.

Larry

[b1jetmech]

Keep in mind, lower atmosphere will cause water to "boil" at a lower temp. Don't want vacuum pulling the bubbler then the water can boil prematurely.

[lhazleton]

b1>> haven't seen you around in a long time. Where ya been? :confused:

[Roland Jacques]

Ive just started experimenting with a simple Plate system in a quart jar. I'm using a bubbler for safety and filtration. the system works great but every time I shut down the engine the bubbler's water sucks into the generator. Am I correct in assuming that a check valve in series with the vacuum port and the bubbler will alleviate my issue? Has anyone else has this problem?

Sounds to me like you have your system plumbed wrong. Your cell and your reservoir should be a loop. I could be wrong but it sounds to me that you have it in sequence. Could you show a picture or a diagram of how you hooked your system up.

[b1jetmech]

b1>> haven't seen you around in a long time. Where ya been? :confused:

Busy working on the new generator ;)

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc39/b1jetmech/humor/Randy_Quaid_Cousin_Eddie.jpg

When it's done...I will post pics.

I'm checking the board daily so I'm with you in spirit! LOL!

[lhazleton]

Great picture. I love 'Cousin Eddie'!:D