A few newbie questions/concerns

[Nicodemus]

Hey guys,

Just started taking interest in this idea last week. I have done a lot of reading and I am keeping an open mind but I have turned up a few questions/concerns.

1. Many people say this is safe to do engine wise, but I have also read that the fuel savings come from running the engine too lean which in time would kill the engine. This argument makes sense, but has anyone actually experienced it?

2. Will the water vapor created by the burnt hydrogen rust the internal engine parts (head, valves, pistons, etc...)?

3. how do I know how much hydrogen is the right amount for my chosen vehicle? Is this something that simply requires experimentation? How can this be "metered"?

4. Is anyone on here confident enough in this tech. that they have tried it on their daily driver? If so, how many miles have you run on it and what have been the long term results/experience (good or bad)?

5. What factors determine the effectiveness of a setup? what makes one better than the next?

As for #4 I am not confident enough to put this on my daily driver (which is why I am here), I love my car and I already replaced the engine once, so should I decide to do this I will be looking for a cheap project car. Thanks for any advice. Hope to be able to get into this pretty soon.

[rcflyn]

My Van is no longer my "DAILY" Driver, but it is still driven regularly. I installed a Wet Cell on it about a year ago, and have driven over 12,000 miles with it. I haven't Peeked into any of the internals of the motor, so I can't say one way or the other, but I doubt there's any internal damage going on. I trust HHO that well....
1 thing I DID notice as far as Internal goes, the oil comes out SOOOO much cleaner on oil changes... SO much cleaner, I've opted to do 6,000 mile intervals instead of the recommended 3,000... I've still got a couple more thousand to go before it's due this time, but when I check the oil level, the oil isn't BLACK any more... It is almost as clean looking as the day it was put in...

[Nicodemus]

Thanks for the replies guys. I don't want to come across as a skeptic. I'm just incredibly paranoid about every little odd sound my car makes because I already had an engine die on me, and can't afford to be in that situation again. That's why I'm trying to gather this info. I do have a couple more questions though.

1. Does something like an Apexi AFC Neo count as an EFIE, or is it too expensive to be worth using it over a more common device?

2. My car already has a full SS Exhaust system, but my header took out the catalytic converter, what effects will this have if any?

3. Has anyone had to deal with any grief from their insurance company over one of these things?

4. Are any changes needed to the timing or spark plug gap?

Maybe I am reading too much into what the detractors have to say, but I do feel my concerns are valid ones, so please forgive a newbie, but this is how we learn. Thanks again guys.

[rcflyn]

Yes, I think you're being over paranoid. but that's ok, I'm sure we all were at one point. I was thinking the same thing a year ago that you are now. I didn't (and don't) have the extra money to replace an engine, but, 12,000 miles later, she still runs the same. Some people swear up and down, HHO gives them more power. I can't say that. My van seems to have the same power, with or with-out HHO.. It flat out SUCKS powerwise... But, I can say, it Idles smoother, and you can even feel it smooth out or roughen up while cruising if I flip the switch....

Now, to answer your questions: IF I can...

1) I have no clue. Never looked into that device. If you're saying it's expensive, then thats probably why I haven't heard of it...

2) How in the HECK did your header TAKE out your cat? or do you mean your Cat had to be REMOVED Because of the Header being installed in place of the stock manifold? but, The SS Exhaust is a DEFFINATE PLUS... It's still going to rust out on you, Exhaust systems use LOW Grade SS. But I don't forsee the CAT not being there hindering your use of HHO.

3) Again, NO CLUE.. I can say I haven't... But, the way I look at it, WHY Tell them???

4) YES for your Timing (IF you can) Retard it some (Not sure how much, as none of my vehicles are adjustable) and I'm NOT SURE on Plug gap, but I'd venture to say NO. I haven't...

I'm sure others will pipe up and offer more advice..

Don't worry so much, JUMP in, Learn the Game, Reap the benefits, Enjoy the Learning curve, and retain the knowledge.
It's a LOT of fun, it's a lot of frustration.... But most of all, HAVE FUN With it...

[astrocady]

I put a system on my daily driver last November. It's an old beater (see my signature lines below for details), but I'd be in a world of hurt if it crapped out. The car runs great on HHO -- the engine really purrrrrrrrrs! And rcflyn is right about the oil. It stays a lot cleaner.

[Nicodemus]

Rcflyn, thanks, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. The header I got did replace my catalytic converter. I asked about this because the header triggers the CEL due to the 2nd o2 sensor getting the wrong reading. It would be easy to assume that an EFIE would actually help with this. The AFC neo is an air/fuel controller for the tuner
car croud, it's like 300 bucks. Sounds like it does the same thing as the EFIE devices.

[rcflyn]

Ok, Now I understand a bit better. I can't answer your question on wether the Cat being gone matters now or not...
But, I can tell you this, that I've discovered with my van...
I've got a Mac 2000 OBDII Scanner hooked up to the van at ALL times.
When I first hooked up my HHO, within a couple Key Cycles, the CEL would come on, I'd read the codes, see that it was ALWAYS lean O2 Codes, and Clear them out... My Van had a BASE of 12.5 MPG before I installed HHO. After I installed HHO, the MPG Varied between 13.75 all the way to 16.5 (Obviously, that depends on HOW I drive, How much cargo I have in it, How many HILLS I've got to climb, ETC, ETC...) but, I got a 1.25-4 mpg increase...
So, One day, CEL came on, and I decided to LEAVE IT ON. I'm tired of Clearing the Codes every couple of key cycles. And I left that light on for 3 or 4 Tank fills.. I did some Number Crunching, and my milage DROPPED DRASTICALLY. I'm talking 8-9 MPG range. so, I cleared the codes, and drove. Cleared the codes each time the CEL came on, and my MPG went back to 13's-16's... Talked to a couple mechanic buddies, and came to conclusion, when your PCM is getting LEAN codes from the O2's, you'll start Dumping MORE fuel into the cylinders to counter-act the LEAN condition. Thus LOOSING fuel Economy.
Now, you, with having the CAT gone, your front O2 and rear O2 are going to be reading the Same, all the time. Which explains your CEL situation. And I'm going to venture to say, because they're reading the Same, the PCM knows the CAT is BAD/Missing, and I can't say what it's going to do FUEL wise. so I'm thinking, that device you mentioned, won't help you any. And, I'm thinking, an EEFI won't either (unless EEFI's have HUGH adjustments front to rear, I don't have an EEFI, so I cant say)

Hopefully, someone else will pipe up and offer you better assistance from here...