My new cell project

[Zipster]

Hi there,

I'm making a dry cell for my car and as well for a few friends to get cheaper price on plate cuts.

It's based on the same principle as my welding cell (http://www.fuel-saver.org/Thread-My-Monster-Cell-Project-Gas-processing-and-safety), like the Sid cell with the bolts going through plates and gaskets. 180mmx180mm plate size, 10mm gasket border so 160x160 of active surface.

Regarding I will be installing it on my 96 Cherokee 4L engine "High output", I may need more than 2LPM. So I was thinking of trying to increase the efficiency by loosing the output and eq holes in the plates and using 6mm polypropylene gaskets with 2 fittings on each one like on the smacktanium. I will not be using any rubber, simply because the position of the bolts will allow me to get the thing real tight.

Question 1: How much more efficiency will I get by losing the holes?

Question 2: With a 6mm gap between the plates, will I need too much catalyst?

I have joined the jpgs of the plates with the holes.
Thanks.

[BioFarmer93]

Zipster-
This is to you or anyone that would care to answer... What exactly is the benefit or perceived benefit of bolting through the plates? It looks like a PITA to do and uses potential wet plate area. I can imagine the possible argument that it seals better, but perimeter bolting seems to work just fine, no leaks between plates and gaskets (everywhere else though!:o) Just wondering...
Nice CAD work by the way- day job?

[Zipster]

My bolting is fine thank you. Its the way I want it. Anyone can anwer my question with some practical experience on wider plate spacing? Thank you.

[astrocady]

my bolting is fine thank you. Its the way i want it. Anyone can anwer my question with some practical experience on wider plate spacing? Thank you.

wow !!!!!!

[BioFarmer93]

Zipster,
I usually give people a second chance to be an a$$hole before I flame them.. So, you're in luck.
To answer your questions (even though you wouldn't even share your opinion with us on my question)...
Question 1: How much more efficiency will I get by losing the holes?
Answer: Impossible to calculate without plate spacing dimension, electrolyte strength, polar and neutral plate configuration, PWM use/capacity/none & plate preparation regimen. (Probably a bit less than 10%)

Question 2: With a 6mm gap between the plates, will I need too much catalyst?
Answer: How much is too much? (in your opinion) Personally, I would run no more than 3mm with 28-30% KOH on media blasted plates, as I can't see making my alternator work any harder than it has to, or heating my unit any higher than necessary to obtain satisfactory production.

[lhazleton]

Touche', BioFarmer!
Another thing I'd like to know: What in God's name does using a bubbler have to do with how tight the damned bolts are????????????:confused:

[BioFarmer93]

LOL- I had to read that twice myself.. it's rubber, he said he's not going to use it on his bolt before he positions it in the real tight thing... Sounds unsafe to me, he could pick up an electrolyte transmitted disease...

[lhazleton]

LOL- I had to read that twice myself.. it's rubber, he said he's not going to use it on his bolt before he positions it in the real tight thing... Sounds unsafe to me, he could pick up an electrolyte transmitted disease...

LOL..........That's really crazy! I thought it said bubbler also!:rolleyes:

[Zipster]

From tests I have run, you can gain up to 20% or so by eliminating the holes.

As for gap, 6mm is fine if you plan on running at 28% KOH. Amp draw will all depend on plate surface, gap, and concentration.

Shane

Thanks Shane for your practical answer. 20% is very interesting.

Now if you have 28% caustic lye in the electrolyte, this means a lot of cleansing doesn't it... Are you using a 28% solution for a car application? That's very caustic.... Caustic particles in engine, no good. How would you clean the gas efficiently without using a 20 inches bubbler, that dont fit under a bonnet does it...

[Zipster]

Here is a question about cell conditioning. I have searched the forum and i'm still unsure of what I will gain in spending 4 days and 4 nights doing that. I have done it for 30mn and skimmed the curd from the surface of water, kept going and no more mud was appearing so I stopped it there. Shall I keep going for another 3 days, 23 hours and 30mns?

http://hydroxygas.com.au/temp/ABCD0007.JPG

[astrocady]

I am puzzled about this. When I condition my plates I don't get any brown goop. Even after running them for 30+ hours. I condition them at about 7 amps per cell. I've tried periodically turning the amp way up for a short time, hoping it would "shock" the brown goop off the plates, but that doesn't seem to do anything. Yesterday, I ran a cell that had been about 20 hours at 7 amps, electrolyte still clear, so I turned it up to 35 amps (all I could pull with the weak conditioning KOH electrolyte) for the entire day. Still no brown goop.

[Zipster]

Brown stuff? do you mean rust? what brown stuff?

Goop yes but not brown, its translucid white ish (like spunk not like poop). If you dont have any comin out within a few minutes or operation it means that your plates are free of grease in the first place.

Koya tell me more about this brown stuff that falls at the bottom

[astrocady]

my plates are very well cleaned before buildint the cell. But I do know about the fine brown stuff Koya speaks of. I see this sometimes after I install a system after it runs at full amperage for a couple of weeks.

[Zipster]

yeah but thats not from the steel is it? The tub i'm using for conditioning is black so i cant see... I'll do the next conditioning test with something clear at the bottom this way i could see. Thanks for that chaps!

[rcflyn]

I too get that Brownish Sand looking substance out of my cells. I haven't messed with them in awhile, and I don't remember the exact details as to what I was doing to get them, but I get it too.
Someone mentioned to me once that it may be due to the fact that I'm using 304 SS, and over amping it, So I built a SMALL 3X3 cell, to deliberately OVER AMP it to verify this statement. I Overamped it for quite some time, but haven't touched it since I shut it down. I was getting brown GUNK out of it, but it slowly subsided... hopefully, I'll get back to it, to see what's been going on inside of it...

ZIP, I think it's from the steel, but can't say for SURE.....

[Zipster]

A good idea would be to bring a sample to a lab to find out