My First Dry Cell

[Last-One-Left]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, great forum..
I built wet cells before but they werent effective enought and i would like to try a dry cell..
I got some stainless plate cut yesterday..i had them cut 6" x 4"..
I have 8 bipolar (neutral) plates and 4 plates that can either be + or -..
If you are wondering what i mean, i had the four plate cut with a ridge on the end so i can connect a teminal..
Can anyone please advise me on the layout that would be best..
should i go with..
1) +NNNN--NNNN+
2) -NNNN++NNNN-
3) +NNNN-NNNN+
4) -NNNN+NNNN-
5) -NN+NN-NN+
6) -NNN+NNN-

Please give me an idea, even if i dont have it on the list there, still let me know if anyone has better ideas, thank you..

[BeaverRat]

Number 2 is what you want. Normally people just do it like this

-NNNN+NNNN-

But with this orientation you have 2 - and only 1 +. I believe it is best to have equal + and - in a cell.

A cell like this would also be fine even without the doubles in the middle because it has equal amounts of power plates

-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+

It doesn't matter weather where the power plates are either + or -... number 1 and 2 are the same.

[Last-One-Left]

Thank you both for your reply...the true purpose of the cell im building is for a torch, and of course i would try it in my car after but for now im focusing on the torch..
As BeaverRat said, its better to have equal amounts on + and - plates...so maybe i should go with
-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+

But according to koya1893 i can get 2lpm with just -NNNNN+
What should i do? should i create to individual cells -NNNNN+ //// -NNNNN+
or one cell arranged like -NNNNN++NNNNN-
Please let me know..and one more thing..how many holes should i drill in the plates? Two? one to the top and one to the bottom? thank you..

[Stevo]

Individual cells. Sets must be isolated for best results. Build it light, compact and remember what DC current is: the unidirectional flow of electric charge. Don't go effing up polarity. You'll be fine.

[Last-One-Left]

So you are saying that if i make two completely seperate cells
-NNNN+ and -NNNN+
I would have better production than -NNNN+NNNN- ?
Why doest anyone build seperat cells and combine the output?

[Last-One-Left]

Thanks man..i have one question..is im not going to be using an air stone, would i be getting koh vapour in my output? how can i get around that? thanks again..

[Last-One-Left]

Can you give me an idea on what i need to use? thank you..

[Last-One-Left]

What about using multiple air stones? if one would be to slow causing pressure build up then multiple air stones should help that..im i right?

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Last-
If you are worried that back pressure may be an issue, you could try the turbulated bubbler method I use.. Hit the dollar store and pick up a few packages of those plastic expanded mesh pot scrubbers. Unroll them like a big condom and take the rubber band and piece of foam out of them. Stuff your bubbler full of them, not packed tight but don't leave any room for the bubbles to go around them. This will break up the bubbles over and over as they rise through the layers of mesh and IMHO do a superior job of scrubbing the gas.

[Last-One-Left]

A big condom, got it! lol..i would try it, that sounds good..i understand good enough but do you have any pictures? that would be nice..thanks..

[BioFarmer93]

OK, here you go...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj3d51P29iM

[rcflyn]

A big condom, got it! lol..i would try it, that sounds good..i understand good enough but do you have any pictures? that would be nice..thanks..

WWWHHHHOOOOAAAAAHHHHH.........
You need a Pic of a condom being unrolled??????
YYYIIIKKKEEEESSSS.......


:D :D

[Last-One-Left]

WWWHHHHOOOOAAAAAHHHHH.........
You need a Pic of a condom being unrolled??????
YYYIIIKKKEEEESSSS.......


:D :D

Hahaha..i got more than just a picture, i got a video lol..
Thanks a million for the video..i totally understand..

Hey guys, whats the best material to use for gaskets? and also the housing (plastic plates) that hold the plate together? thanks..

[BioFarmer93]

Gaskets- .050" EPDM if you're not going to control your heat via proper electronics, or .040" PVC gray shower pan liner from Home Depot if you're going to pay attention.

End Caps- .75" HDPE, .50" UHMW (if you want to spend the money). Wal-Mart plastic cutting boards (.50" HDPE)-if you use a full plate coverage piece of gasket material between it and the last plate because its surface has a bit of texture. Theoreticaly you could use just about any strong non-conductive material as long as you used a full plate coverage gasket between it and the out side... But I guarentee you that if you use plywood you will be the butt of endless jokes around here:D:D

[rcflyn]

Here's where you come into another confusing area. Some swear by Thinner gaskets, some swear by thicker gaskets.
Farmer just said .050. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. I Don't know.
I'm using .160. and I've got some .125 to be tested.
As far as thickness goes, gather as much info as you can, and try what you feel is right.

End Plates, Another touch subject.
I'm using 3/8 Clear Acrylic. But, I like to "SEE" what's going on inside. Ok, atleast I can see up to the FIRST Plate... L.O.L. It's Cool watching those bubbles work their way UP the Reactor....

[rcflyn]

Koya...

HHHMMM... I'm doubting your statement, but haven't tested one way or the other, so I can't say for sure, but, NOW, you make me want to try it.
You said that thicker gaskets will run warmer. I'm doubting that. I'm thinking that with thicker gaskets, there is more fluid between the plates, allowing it to remain cooler. Or, Maybe it will run warmer (I'll test that one some day), BUT, it's going to take LONGER to warm up. Again, maybe my lines of thinking are wrong, so you make me wonder. But, isn't that what these forums are all about? Question each other, encourage us to re-evalute our thinking, and try something different.
The ONLY Reason I NEED to run a 28% mixture is because I live in COLD Climates. Western N.Y. gets well below FREEZING in the winters. I don't LIKE having to use a PWM, but, I'd rather keep the mixture high, spend the extra money, and continue using it all winter long.

As SOON as I get the oportunity, I'll Build an identicle reactor to the one I'm testing now, only install my .125 thick gasket (as compared to .160) Test your theory and see if there's any heat differences.
But, here's the problem, as I see it. You CAN'T Use the same concentration E-Lyte. Thinner gaskets will require LESS Concentrated E-Lyte to draw the same amperage. You'll (or "I'LL" in this case) Mix seperate E-Lyte to make it so the 2 reactors are drawing the same amperage.
If I'm wrong, please, someone tell me.

[lhazleton]

Brian,
You're probably wrong on all accounts, but you're used to that, aren't you?:D

[BioFarmer93]

RC, I think you may have just answered your own question. Although counter intuitive, the thicker gaskets might just make the mix hotter faster because of the increased resistance due to increased distance between plates.
I build wind turbines also, and stumbled onto the fact that Terry Galyon at TLG windpower also has a highly productive HHO system that he markets under TLG hydrogen with a purpose wound permanent magnet alternator and an electrolyzer that uses gaskets that are less than 1/32" thick! I grilled him about this in depth over the phone one morning and he is steadfast in his assertion that plate spacing should be the least you can get away with for a given application (electrolyte pump or no pump). Not many folks seem to know about him, but his site makes for some interesting info and a bit of good reading.

If you have a few minutes, check it out... http://www.tlgwindpower.com/tlghydrogen/

[rcflyn]

Lee, BITE me... :D Ya, I'm used to it by now. I've learned to take it with a grain of salt. It's all in fun, there for, it's ALL good.. :eek:

Bio, I see where you're coming from, but I still think More fluid capacity between the plates will allow cooler running overall. I'll give your link a look when I get a minute. I'm curious now. 1/32", I'm just trying to fathom the AMP Draw I'd create on that with my 28% KOH concentration. Granted, the PWM will control it, but at THIS Moment, I'm running PWMless, Pulling 15ish amps with the .160 gasket thickness.
Dern it, Sometimes I really hate this HHO stuff...:mad: