HHO installation company

[Boosters]

Ive been looking at supplemental hydrogen generator systems for a couple years now. I notice when talking to people 'on the street' that they would be willing to spend the money for a system that will pay itself off in a year. But, at least in the US, they do not have the time to understand how to put it together and make it work safely. So I had the idea to start a car shop that specializes in installation and maintenance of supplemental hydrogen generator systems. That way we could take care of the learning process of how to install these systems and draw up a plan to keep them maintained and working effectively and safely. Obviously this is a very rough business plan, but I thought you guys could clue me in on any problems I may have and tips to make it work.
Thanks, Boosters.

[Boosters]

I have not started testing yet, that is the next step. I will be testing on a 1997 pickup so that I can also test working with the ECU latter on. I plan on just being the middle man between HHO cell builders and customers that don't have knowledge or time to install and maintain the systems themselves. I'm not worried about finding places to install it, that will come with time. What I am worried about is the legalities of having this business. Of course I would draw up some warranty sheets that would require maintenance every 3,000 miles or whatever my testing will confirm. Also I'm not worried about the EPA because everything I've read shows much better emissions, but I'm not sure if there are other requirements to meet as I would be a fuel additive service, much like aftermarket nitro kits or ignition kits installers.

Thank you for the tips about where to install the units, every bit of knowledge will help get this off the ground. I am very excited about the possibility of this business because it has always been my dream to help the world be more sustainable and to help the average person and maybe ill make a little money in the mean time. :)

[IM2L844]

Boosters, it sounds, to me, like you're putting the cart before the horse. You'll need at least a year or two of hands on, practical, first hand experience building and installing before you will even know for sure if you want to still try and implement the sort of business you're talking about. Unless you've left out something, you're a long way from having to worry about the legal ramifications of owning a business like that.

[Boosters]

Yes I figure at least a year of testing... but as many people know for a business you can write off testing expenses, especially for the first year of ownership. So it is in my best interest to start the business before I buy major testing equipment and generator systems. However I will be purchasing a cheaper DIY system to test with before making any decisions.

I just wanted to get a feel for what problems other people may have ran into with starting a business around HHO generators. In my opinion its never to early to worry about legal ramifications. Thanks for the advice, but I would rather have some practical information about potential technical and/or legal issues.

[IM2L844]

Without knowing what your level of understanding is, there is no way to adequately respond to your nebulous request. We could take the time and space to write hundreds of pages here and still not cover everything you need to know.

Have you read the 334 page, Panacea-BOCAF On-Line University Hydroxy Course PDF yet?

[Boosters]

Now there is something I can use, Thanks for the tip for reading. In the distant future I may want to experiment with building my own design, but for now I think it is best to stay with the tried and true designs and work around the issues with regular maintenance. Is there really that many issues with HHO generators? I see kits all the time for sale, they look very simple, well I guess ill just get in with a water4gas cell and see what the big deal is, after reading that book. Thanks everyone.

[IM2L844]

Forget the water4gas cell. The last thing the HHO enthusiast community needs is another water4gas salesman.

A lot of improvements have been made to this design, but it's a fundementally sound, relatively simple, cheap and easy to construct design. I would recommend that all beginners start with this basic design for their first build:

http://www.nicksrealm.com/HHO/Library/series_cell_v1.2.pdf

[Boosters]

After reading much of that report and looking back at the water4gas cell I really don't like how it is constructed... It did mention a resonance method of electrolysis and after looking around I found these plans.
http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/D14.pdf
I would love to hear if someone has tried this design and if it works as shown. Only drawing 3-5 amps would be amazing. I just happen to have some SST tubes that might work... I think ill put something together to test it.

[Boosters]

Your cell design looks very nice. Does it run the resonance circuit shown in the plan I posted? I am mainly interested in the very low current draw and it not using any electrolytes. I was thinking of making it into a dry cell which shouldn't be too hard but I will probably start with a wet cell. I think it is a property of the tube electrodes that make it possible to resonate them, but it would be interesting to try and run your dry cell off the same circuit to see if there is any amp drop or better HHO production.

[IM2L844]

Boosters, I've seen lots and lots of claims for resonance, but I've never seen any video documentation that I would consider viable evidence to support the rhetoric. It should be a simple matter to produce a relatively convincing, un-edited, un-cut, video showing amps, volts, waveforms and production. Maybe one exists and I just haven't seen it. If anyone knows of such a thing, I would love to see it. All I've ever seen were videos that convincingly show that it does nothing to increase production.
See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF4zuqWEoI0

[Boosters]

IM, well I just got all the parts (hardware that is) for my first booster design. just 4" pvc cap - little pipe - spacer - thread socket - pvc socket to brass screw - pressure gauge - gas valve - hose connection. Im going to start assembling it today. When I get it put together I want to test standard electrolysis vs. resonance electrolysis with psi per minute which should be easily converted to Lpm.

One question.. Can I just solder the wires and epoxy around them to the electrodes to keep them away from the mix, or do I have to tap them with SST screws? They are tube electrodes, I plan on letting the outer set of tubes sit higher then the inner set to make it easy to connect wires without effecting the HHO production as much. I will do different amounts of tube sets with each method and document the results. I will post pictures when I finish building something recognizable, and data when I'm finish doing some tests.

About the video, I see why you would have doubts about this resonance electrolysis... He looked rather upset about investing money in something that he couldn't get to work. If I didn't have pretty much all the electronic components and measuring equipment to complete this project I probably wouldn't do it at this point, but since I have all the material I need I my as well give it a go. Of coarse if I do find something substantial I will make a video and post it, If I can figure out how to... never posted on youtube yet. If it doesn't work I will try better tubes (not the best quality and not tuned to resonate at the same frequency). Again thanks for the info and for trying to keep me from wasting my time, I wont say you didn't try.

[Boosters]

Just an update about my prototype booster. SST is hard to cut! but Im almost finished. maybe I should get a band saw... well just need to hook up the electrodes, wire them, build a test circuit, and do some testing. I attached some pics for you guys to look at, okay so far?

[Drafty-01]

Hi Boosters,
There's a bit of a knack to cutting and machining stainless steel. It work-hardens on the surface that is machined/cut/worked, so the idea is to use a ton of cutting pressure to get the cutting edge under the work-hardened surface. As much as the saw or drill can handle basically. Your tools will not burn out if you don't go too fast and use a coolant/lube.

I'm building a "dry cell", as I couldn't be bothered with the wet cell. This seems to be a progression a lot of people have made. Many, many refinements have been made by members here on various designs of cell.

Another point to note is the electronics of different vehicles tends to vary, which really challenges the mind a bit - or so I've read. A good idea, I've read, is to use a PWM to limit the current to your cell, as the out put is more controllable and faster from the get go. Then there's the EFIE - another essential device to made heaps of difference to the mileage.

Good luck,
Drafty.

[Boosters]

Hey Drafty,

Ive come to the conclusion that using a saw tool is not the way to go with tubes. there are tools specially made to cut tube, they are mostly used for cutting copper plumbing pipe. I found one at the local hardware store that claims that it works on stainless steel so if i bust it, ill just return it. I tried it and it makes a perfectly smooth and level cut. I just don't think there is a better way to get it done.

For my prototype I think I will start with a wet cell... One thing that doesn't make sense to me with dry cells is you still need a water/collection chamber besides the safety bubbler(s) right? so if you need to have a whole other unit what are you gaining by doing a dry cell vs. wet cell?

As for the electronics and tuning the output amount of HHO to the engine size and demand/load, I am thinking about working with Volo Performance. http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.net/ as a distributor. There chips are legal through the EPA and they do a lot more then just O2 sensor. If you buy blanks in bulk to program they drop to as little as $50 a unit, which is worth the price for legality in my mind.

[Boosters]

Did my first air pressure test. Used a Kirby in reverse as an air pump and sprayed soapy water an the entire unit. well it made a good bubbler... The PVC cement joints had no bubbles, it was the JB weld to PVC joints.. apparently JB weld doesn't stick to PVC under pressure, even on joints that I scored The JB weld broke right off. So I took apart all the joints with JB weld and will be using PL sealants instead. DIY boat builders use it so it must perform well.

I have a new design idea for a double coil cell (with stainless steel foil) sealed on the ends and water intake in the middle. Ill probably feed water through it with a pump and tilt the spiral up so hydroxy doesn't build up in the gaps. I'm thinking of using 3m 2 sided mounting tape for the spacing, I'm not sure if it will hold the foil in place permanently so I will be using PL sealant on the edges and have some kind of support structure so the SST foil doesn't collapse and short. Ive included a draft picture for your viewing pleasure. Any ideas to add?