At startup, pulls huge amps then quickly backs off...

[BeaverRat]

Hello,
Ever since I have been using my dry cell I have noticed one thing about it. When I go to turn on the PSU the cell will pull about 35 amps for about 1 second then back off to about 17. If I let it sit for 10 minutes it eventually warms up and pulls 30 amps. This is with about 10% NaOh solution. Is it normal for the cell to have a burst of power on startup and then back off? If need be I can record a video of it happening. The bubbler goes crazy for the first second!
Thanks

[H2OPWR]

Hello,
Ever since I have been using my dry cell I have noticed one thing about it. When I go to turn on the PSU the cell will pull about 35 amps for about 1 second then back off to about 17. If I let it sit for 10 minutes it eventually warms up and pulls 30 amps. This is with about 10% NaOh solution. Is it normal for the cell to have a burst of power on startup and then back off? If need be I can record a video of it happening. The bubbler goes crazy for the first second!
Thanks

Your cell is forcing the e-lite back out the intake port. The water level is lowering in the cell. That is for sure your problem. You will need to find a way to keep the cell closer to full.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thanks,
do you have any ideas? I will record a video tommorow...

[H2OPWR]

Thanks,
do you have any ideas? I will record a video tommorow...

I probably have many ideas. I have tackeled this problem over and over. It is more common than any other problem. I would have to see a video or get more info to be helpful.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Ok, I will shoot a video and post whatever info you require to help me diagnose the problem... Thanks!

[Owen_]

It is normal for the current to drop back a little and HHO bubbles don't conduct electricity. But it should only drop to around your 30 amp warmed up draw. I think Larry has identified your problem.
A pump is the simplest way to address this, cutting larger holes may also do the trick.

[BeaverRat]

Ok, Here is a video that shows in several views what is going on during the first few seconds of switching the cell on. In this video the cell is cold for every view. This video is in HD so the quality will be very good as soon as youtube finishes processing the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKTM1QoUC7I

[lhazleton]

Nice video! Try running larger diameter gas tubing, or, if possible, an additional exhaust port on the backside. As the gas is created, the expansion rate is faster than the exhaust can handle, so the back-pressure is forcing the E/lyte out of the reactor.

[H2OPWR]

Ok, Here is a video that shows in several views what is going on during the first few seconds of switching the cell on. In this video the cell is cold for every view. This video is in HD so the quality will be very good as soon as youtube finishes processing the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKTM1QoUC7I

Nice video. You are defenately losing at least half of the water in the cell at start up. This presents a real problem with both production and effeciency. Some gaps will have more water in them then other gaps causing imbalanced production.

There are several problems here.

1) Your resevoir water outlet should be at the minumum a little higher than the gas outlet of the cell. The higher the better.

2) you should have a water inlet on each side of the cell as well as a gas outlet on each side of the cell. Without that your individual gaps will always be unbalanced. I would hook the second gas outlet into the barp that you now use to let the gas out to the bubbler. Then I would make a new gas outlet from the resevoir to the bubbler that is higher than the other two.

3) A pump would solve your issue but I would avoid that at all costs. They are not needed with a properly designed cell.

4) a check valve in the line between the resevoir and the bubbler that takes 1 PSI to crack will slightly pressure the resevoir helping to keep the cell full of water.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thankyou very much!
I have been chasing this problem for a very long time now! About a month ago I was wondering why the cell wouldn't pull much amperage, now I know why! It shouldn't be too hard to drill 2 more holes in the endplates... Where can I buy a 1 PSI Check Valve? Lowes?

[H2OPWR]

Thankyou very much!
I have been chasing this problem for a very long time now! About a month ago I was wondering why the cell wouldn't pull much amperage, now I know why! It shouldn't be too hard to drill 2 more holes in the endplates... Where can I buy a 1 PSI Check Valve? Lowes?

McMaster Carr online is the best place to find them.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

On Second thought, I don't think I actually need the check valve because when I have the torch running, that creates a little back pressure (Fine Bronze Wool)...

Oh, and should I raise the tube diameter to 5/16ths?

[H2OPWR]

On Second thought, I don't think I actually need the check valve because when I have the torch running, that creates a little back pressure (Fine Bronze Wool)...

Oh, and should I raise the tube diameter to 5/16ths?

I always use 3/8th tube on all my builds. Another thought is your gap size. I am not sure what it is. The tighter your gaps are the higher percentage of space the bubbles will take up. That always is a balancing act. A high percentage of gas to water disrupts good ion flow and too large a gap increases cell resistance. I an one of the few here that prefers a large gap. On a small device I use 1/8th as a minimum. Most of my builds use a 1/4" gap. I find that more effecient and have less trouble keeping the cell full. I offset the resistance of the larger gap with stronger mixes of KOH to water.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

You know, I am starting to think that my gap size is too small. I did everything you said about making another input and output fitting on the cell, and while it helped, I can still see the amp meter start at 35 amps and quickly retreat to about 24-25 amps. Right now I have 1/16th inch gaskets that compress to about half of that or 1/32 inch... That is way to small isn't it? That could be why the cell isn't staying full of water. What gaskets would you recommend with a full stregth solution of NaOh? 1/8, 1/4, and what material and where to get them (local would be nice)!
Thanks

[H2OPWR]

You know, I am starting to think that my gap size is too small. I did everything you said about making another input and output fitting on the cell, and while it helped, I can still see the amp meter start at 35 amps and quickly retreat to about 24-25 amps. Right now I have 1/16th inch gaskets that compress to about half of that or 1/32 inch... That is way to small isn't it? That could be why the cell isn't staying full of water. What gaskets would you recommend with a full stregth solution of NaOh? 1/8, 1/4, and what material and where to get them (local would be nice)!
Thanks

With a device your size 1/8th gap would be plenty. I would use Nitrile as the material. Neoprene works as well but Nitrile (Buena N) is better. Any local rubber outlet should sell it. Otherwise it should be easy to come by on the internet. If your gaps are really 1/32" that is WAY too small. The bubbles will take up most of the available space.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thanks, I'm not too excited at cuting out 24 more gaskets though!

[BeaverRat]

I am having a hard time finding a place that you can easily order nitrile rubber sheets (.125) without having to call in your order.

Is this stuff any good for gaskets?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_31448-143-PP25547_0_?productId=1082957&Ntt=rubber sheet&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=rubber sheet

[H2OPWR]

I am having a hard time finding a place that you can easily order nitrile rubber sheets (.125) without having to call in your order.

Is this stuff any good for gaskets?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_31448-143-PP25547_0_?productId=1082957&Ntt=rubber sheet&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=rubber sheet

That should work fine.

Larry

[hg2]

BeaverRat you might try to make the output fittings larger and route them up from the cell at 90 degrees,this will prevent the e lyte being expelled as much and allow the gas to flow easier.Smaller fittings and tubing tend to push fluid out due to the slight pressure generated by the cell.

just a thought

[BeaverRat]

Thanks guys- quick question, what durometer of the nitrile rubber do I want? I am going to order a 12"x24" piece at 1/8th inch thick. Oh, and I have another video of the cell uploading.

[BeaverRat]

Ok, here is the latest video. I added 2 more ports on the cell to eliminate the back pressure problem forcing the electrolyte level down in the cell. Them amp problem is still here though, so I think the problem is due to the gaskets being far too thin... Tell me what you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DekVZNX0AHE

[H2OPWR]

Ok, here is the latest video. I added 2 more ports on the cell to eliminate the back pressure problem forcing the electrolyte level down in the cell. Them amp problem is still here though, so I think the problem is due to the gaskets being far too thin... Tell me what you think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DekVZNX0AHE

This is an official welcome to the world of HHO experimentation. There are always many more problems to solve than ways to solve them.

Your gaps are way too small. When you get this worked out your amps will never back down more than a couple after start up.

Right now your problem is simply too many bubbles in the space that your water should be in. Like I have said before. I am a fan of much wider gaps than most.

Bubbles are not conductive and disrupt ion flow.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thankyou very much! So as you could see in the video I have 4 hose barbs on the cell. 2 separate HHO Gas outlets that have their own holes in the reservoir and then 2 inlets which share a common output hole from the reservoir. I assume it is OK to just have one outlet from the reservoir and then T it off to the two sides of the cell. BTW everything is 1/4 hose barbs. I have a ton of extra shower pan liner gaskets, so I am going to double those up per gap to achieve a gap of .080 (1/12.5) inches. Is that a big enough gap? If not I will order 1/8th inch Nitrile rubber and try that out (What durometer should I order, 60?)

Again, thankyou HHOPWR, you have helped me tremedously to actually understand a bit about these drycells!

[H2OPWR]

Thankyou very much! So as you could see in the video I have 4 hose barbs on the cell. 2 separate HHO Gas outlets that have their own holes in the reservoir and then 2 inlets which share a common output hole from the reservoir. I assume it is OK to just have one outlet from the reservoir and then T it off to the two sides of the cell. BTW everything is 1/4 hose barbs. I have a ton of extra shower pan liner gaskets, so I am going to double those up per gap to achieve a gap of .080 (1/12.5) inches. Is that a big enough gap? If not I will order 1/8th inch Nitrile rubber and try that out (What durometer should I order, 60?)

Again, thankyou HHOPWR, you have helped me tremedously to actually understand a bit about these drycells!

Showerpan liner is PVC. PVC especially thin stuff like shower pan liner softens very much even with just a little heat. Folks here have tried it over and over because it is inexpensive and readily available. It also seals very well. I hate to see you spend more money but shower pan liner will eventually soften and fail. Your cell will short out and leak. Then you will have a mucky mess. It will seem to work well for a while then leave you scratching your head and frustrated.

If it were me I would order 1/8th inch Nitrile and start over. 60 duro will work and is readily available. If available I would order something a little stiffer than 60 but it is not critical. Stiffer stuff will still seal but will help to maintain your gap. Maintaining your gap will give you a much higher ratio of water to gas in your cell. Most folks underestimate the importance of keeping good ion flow in the cell. Another advantage of wider gaps is that little imperfections in plate spacing will not cause such a huge imbalanced production problem. With very narrow gaps anything like even tightening one bolt more than another will cause plates to be closer on one corner than another. That causes that spot to draw an imbalanced amount of current. It lowers cell effeciency greatly.

There can be HUGE differences between identical cells in effeciency just due to little things that careful assembly can cure. Think about it. 1/2 an MMW is a 10% loss or gain in effeciency. In the real world 10% is HUGE.

Larry

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Ok, I am going to order some neoprene rubber from mcmaster-carr (Do they have low prices?) Could you tell me if this is the stuff I want before I go ahead and order it? It calls it neoprene spring rubber, I was just wondering if that is somehow not the right stuff...

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1502&stc=1&d=1268006611

[H2OPWR]

Ok, I am going to order some neoprene rubber from mcmaster-carr (Do they have low prices?) Could you tell me if this is the stuff I want before I go ahead and order it? It calls it neoprene spring rubber, I was just wondering if that is somehow not the right stuff...

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1502&stc=1&d=1268006611

Should work. The price seems good as well.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thanks... I actually ended up ordering this stuff (had a very very good price!)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#9455k894/=64h9tc

I got three of them for a total of 12x72 inches

[BeaverRat]

Ok, today I installed my new 1/8th inch gaskets in my cell. The good news is that it is much better, the bad news is that I think the problem still may be present. I recorded a video of several views at startup again and it will be on youtube within the hour.

EDIT- here is is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o99NHVg0uA

[H2OPWR]

Ok, today I installed my new 1/8th inch gaskets in my cell. The good news is that it is much better, the bad news is that I think the problem still may be present. I recorded a video of several views at startup again and it will be on youtube within the hour.

EDIT- here is is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o99NHVg0uA

Looking MUCH better. That is about as good as you are going to get that cell. The bubbles that are always being made in the cell always take up space. That space is non conductive and will impede ion flow. Like I have said before. Increasing the gap is the only way to lessen that effect. Your 1/8th gap is plenty wide for a cell that size. I do run 1/4" gaps but my cell is much larger than yours. As your cell warms up the amp draw will increase to more than your initial 30 amps. As you continue playing with it you will be looking for a way to lower amp draw to keep your cell from overheating. I would not run any more amp draw than your 30. That may end up being too much. Do some long runs of 4 or 5 hours non stop. Carefully monitor the cell temp. It should never exceed 140 degrees as constructed.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Ok, thanks.
Before with the 1/20th or so gaps the cell would start at 34 amps and drop to 19 amps. Now with the 1/8th inch gaps the cell starts at 30 and drops to about 26 or 27. I suppose that is quite a bit better. Quick question: why does the electrolyte appear to be pumping or pulsing in the cell output line? The gas flow speeds up, then slows down, then speeds up...

[H2OPWR]

Ok, thanks.
Before with the 1/20th or so gaps the cell would start at 34 amps and drop to 19 amps. Now with the 1/8th inch gaps the cell starts at 30 and drops to about 26 or 27. I suppose that is quite a bit better. Quick question: why does the electrolyte appear to be pumping or pulsing in the cell output line? The gas flow speeds up, then slows down, then speeds up...

Internal cell pressure. Simple as that.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Is it normal

[delvis11]

Ok, thanks.
Before with the 1/20th or so gaps the cell would start at 34 amps and drop to 19 amps. Now with the 1/8th inch gaps the cell starts at 30 and drops to about 26 or 27. I suppose that is quite a bit better. Quick question: why does the electrolyte appear to be pumping or pulsing in the cell output line? The gas flow speeds up, then slows down, then speeds up...


I read most of these posts. How far above your generator is your reservoir ?
Increasing this distance has helped my cure the problem your are experiencing.

[BeaverRat]

The reservoir is about 4 inches above the top of the cell. I actually have one more question (probably more). The cell now has 2 input barbs and 2 output barbs. The output barbs each have their own hose and their own connection to the reservoir, but the two input barbs to the cell are tee'd off and share 1 common barb on the reservoir. The tubing is also 1/4th everywhere. Would it help to give the reservoir two separate output holes that go to each side of the cell rather than sharing one hole? Also, is 1/4th big enough?

[H2OPWR]

The reservoir is about 4 inches above the top of the cell. I actually have one more question (probably more). The cell now has 2 input barbs and 2 output barbs. The output barbs each have their own hose and their own connection to the reservoir, but the two input barbs to the cell are tee'd off and share 1 common barb on the reservoir. The tubing is also 1/4th everywhere. Would it help to give the reservoir two separate output holes that go to each side of the cell rather than sharing one hole? Also, is 1/4th big enough?

It is normal for most cells to pump like yours. Once you get up to 5 or 6 LPM you will notice it stop and become more even. You will need a much bigger device to make that type of production. So far you have done very well with switch plate covers.

Larry

[H2OPWR]

I read most of these posts. How far above your generator is your reservoir ?
Increasing this distance has helped my cure the problem your are experiencing.

Welcome Steve. This forum can always use people with your kind of experience.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Ok... Another thing I noticed was that when the cell is warmed up and you switch it on after everthing has equalized, it will draw about 60 amps for around 1/4th second and then imediately drop to 30 amps (fast, not a gradual drop like before). I don't think the electrolyte level in the cell is dropping becuase I am using 1/4 inch hoses and have two outputs and two inputs to the cell (should be good to keep pressure out of cell). Is this burst to 60 amps some sort of electrical inrush that happens when you first turn it on because at that split second there is perfect electrical contact between the plates before the bubbles are formed? If needed I can get a video of it...

[H2OPWR]

Ok... Another thing I noticed was that when the cell is warmed up and you switch it on after everthing has equalized, it will draw about 60 amps for around 1/4th second and then imediately drop to 30 amps (fast, not a gradual drop like before). I don't think the electrolyte level in the cell is dropping becuase I am using 1/4 inch hoses and have two outputs and two inputs to the cell (should be good to keep pressure out of cell). Is this burst to 60 amps some sort of electrical inrush that happens when you first turn it on because at that split second there is perfect electrical contact between the plates before the bubbles are formed? If needed I can get a video of it...

Your entire cell is acting just like a capacitor. When you first start it up it charges with energy then settles down to only the amount of current being used.

[BeaverRat]

Ok, good to know it is normal. Anyway, on second thoughts I think the cell may still be having electrolyte problems. Here is what the cell consists of so far:

25 plates with 7/32" (.875/4) holes (one top, one bottom)
1/8th inch gaskets
2 1/4th inlets (one on each side)
2 1/4th outlets (one on each side)
The inlets share one outlet from reservoir
the gas outlets each have their own reservoir inlet

What is wrong with this setup? What else can I change?

I thought the 1/8th inch gaskets fixed the problem, but upon further testing it is still very present. When the cell warms up just a little bit (5 minutes of running) it gets much worse. I have a new video to describe what I am saying.

[H2OPWR]

Ok, good to know it is normal. Anyway, on second thoughts I think the cell may still be having electrolyte problems. Here is what the cell consists of so far:

25 plates with 7/32" (.875/4) holes (one top, one bottom)
1/8th inch gaskets
2 1/4th inlets (one on each side)
2 1/4th outlets (one on each side)
The inlets share one outlet from reservoir
the gas outlets each have their own reservoir inlet

What is wrong with this setup? What else can I change?

I thought the 1/8th inch gaskets fixed the problem, but upon further testing it is still very present. When the cell warms up just a little bit (5 minutes of running) it gets much worse. I have a new video to describe what I am saying.

You may just have to face the fact that with plates the size you are using you may never be able to get the amount of volume of gas that you want. You keep pushing for that 30 amp mark. With the stainless cell I was running in my truck I had 51 6" X 8" plates with a quarter inch gap. I was running that cell at 65 amps MAX. That is twice as many plates and each plate had 4 times the amount of exposed surface area as you have. With the gap double and 8 times the amount of exposed area I was only drawing twice the amount of current as you are. From what I seen on your video it seems that you can get 25 amps. That would mean that apples to apples I would have had to use 200 amps.

You may simply be filling the cell with gas. I have never pushed a normal stainless dry cell that hard. With other exotic cells I have pushed much harder but they could take the heat.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thanks...
I am wondering though, as you will see in the video I have on it's way, when the cell is warm it will pull 45 amps at startup and then gradually reduce to 28 amps over the course of several seconds. Why doesn't it just pull 45 and stay there or pull any number of amps but not drop more than 5 amps? Right now with 45-28 amps, it is dropping 17 amps over the course of a couple seconds. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to at least stabalize the amp draw? I don't mind if it will only pull 30 amps, I just wish it would pull around 30 at startup too and stay there, because right now it still looks like the electrolyte level in the cell is still dropping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnSC8_sooVY

[H2OPWR]

Thanks...
I am wondering though, as you will see in the video I have on it's way, when the cell is warm it will pull 45 amps at startup and then gradually reduce to 28 amps over the course of several seconds. Why doesn't it just pull 45 and stay there or pull any number of amps but not drop more than 5 amps? Right now with 45-28 amps, it is dropping 17 amps over the course of a couple seconds. Is this normal? Is there anything I can do to at least stabalize the amp draw? I don't mind if it will only pull 30 amps, I just wish it would pull around 30 at startup too and stay there, because right now it still looks like the electrolyte level in the cell is still dropping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnSC8_sooVY

That will never happen. As you start up your cell it fills with non conductive bubbles. That will lower amp draw. Start up will always be higher. It was dropping to 16 amps. You have made huge improvements. A wider gap would improve it more but any more than 20 to 25 amps is way too much for that cell.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Ok, so this is as good as I can get it? What about the bubbles in the cell input line? Doesn't that suggest the water level in the cell is still lowering?

So your suggestion is that the amps drop because of the HHO bubbles being produced block the ion flow, which is normal, but are you sure that the problem still isn't gas pressure at the top of the cell forcing the electrolyte level down? Because wouldn't you agree that the amps in the video drop rather slowly?

Also, just for comparison purposes, how many amps does your cell drop from the moment you flip the PSU switch to when it stabalizes?
Thanks

[H2OPWR]

Ok, so this is as good as I can get it? What about the bubbles in the cell input line? Doesn't that suggest the water level in the cell is still lowering?

So your suggestion is that the amps drop because of the HHO bubbles being produced block the ion flow, which is normal, but are you sure that the problem still isn't gas pressure at the top of the cell forcing the electrolyte level down? Because wouldn't you agree that the amps in the video drop rather slowly?

Also, just for comparison purposes, how many amps does your cell drop from the moment you flip the PSU switch to when it stabalizes?
Thanks

The gas pressure will always force some bubbles and e-lite back out the bottom hose. The only way to stop that would be to use a small pump and pump e-lite through the cell. With a pump your overall effeciency will drop when you take the amp draw from the pump into count. It will keep amp draw up slightly but lower effeciency.

Yes the amp draw does drop rather slowly suggesting that the gas pressure is lowering the e-lite level. I am sure that is happening as gas builds up at the top of your cell. That is always going to happen to some extent. It is just the nature of any cell.

As far as amp drop on my cell. I am unsure as to how much it drops. I do not use an inline amp meter like you do. I have long stopped measuring amp draw at start up because it is always slightly higher than running amp draw.

Before when your cell was losing half of its amp draw you had problems. Now it is just acting like a normal cell. You might make slight gains with larger hoses but not enough to be worth the trouble. My Nickel cell will produce 7+ LPM using 2 1/8" hoses like you are.

Larry

[Philldpapill]

Beaverrat, a simple experiment you can do is to get your e-lyte reservoir, and raise it above your cell, and watch your current draw. If your current draw goes up as you raise the reservoir, and goes down as you lower it, then Larry is correct.

By raising the reservoir, you are causing the elecrolyte to have a higher pressure into the cell due to gravity. If this higher pressure forces MORE electrolyte in, and the gas is naturally forcing the electrolyte out, then eventually, the extra electrolyte will cover more plate surface, resulting in higher current draw.

[BeaverRat]

ok, thanks guys... good to know it is running how it should. I did actually increase the hose size at the cell output side to 3/8ths inch hose. It made no difference in how the amps behaved. Would it make any difference to do the same to the cell input holes?

Also, when the cell warmed all the way up, it would draw 60 amps at startup for a fraction of a second and then settle down to 35 amps. Why does it draw 60 amps for about 1/4th of a second? Thats a lot of amps... I don't think the water level in the cell was lowering because it dropped down to 35 amps almost instantly...

[BeaverRat]

Ok, if this video passes approval, than it is my last amp draw question:D

I'm gonna keep it real simple this time... Is this an acceptable amperage drop from startup to stability? Is this about the same drop that every cell naturally has? It goes from about 33 amps to 24 amps... Basically, is this what it should look like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZC_SMUpeM

If it is still dropping too much, I have 2 tricks left up my sleave... increase hose diameter from 1/4th to 3/8ths, and make the holes in the plates bigger.

[H2OPWR]

Ok, if this video passes approval, than it is my last amp draw question:D

I'm gonna keep it real simple this time... Is this an acceptable amperage drop from startup to stability? Is this about the same drop that every cell naturally has? It goes from about 33 amps to 24 amps... Basically, is this what it should look like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZC_SMUpeM

If it is still dropping too much, I have 2 tricks left up my sleave... increase hose diameter from 1/4th to 3/8ths, and make the holes in the plates bigger.

You are becoming way too concerned with amp drop from start up. Like I have said. The stable amp draw is more than enough for that size of cell. It does not matter how much the drop is. At the amp draw you are at that is all the current that cell will handle. You are running 35 amps hot. That is too many for a cell that size. You will end up with thermal runaway and melt down the gaskets if you push more current through that cell.

Larry

[BeaverRat]

Thankyou for your patience... I must come across as sounding very ingnorant in my newbishness:o. I will run it at 25 amps with my PWM as per your advise. The main thing I was concerned about was wheather or not the e-lite level in the cell was dropping too low and lowering efficiency, but I guess it is allright. Thanks a million for your asistance.