what's wrong

[linkintiger]

my dry cell setup 6x6 ss plates +nnnn-nnnn+ i connected straight to the car battery engine running and i connected analog amp meter on negative cable but for some reason it show only 5 amp on the meter and i am getting small amount of gas production. any idea?

[Helz_McFugly]

whats your KOH mixture

[linkintiger]

i use 4 table spoons per 1/2 gallon of baking soda because i dont want to use KOH with my luck is to dangerous i dont want to risk it.

[cabrera]

i use 4 table spoons per 1/2 gallon of baking soda because i dont want to use KOH with my luck is to dangerous i dont want to risk it.

http://www.alexandgregory.com/images/Ben%20kenobi%20ghost.gif

Use the KOH Link!

It's not dangerous...unless you get thirsty or decide to use it as eyewash.
I make my mix (28%) roughly 2Lbs of KOH to 3/4 gal of water.
Use goggles & gloves (little cuticle cuts burn if you get KOH mix on them). The initial mix will get warm while you are mixing it then cool down. If you live in a cold area this is best as it will not freeze. But you will have to use a PWM (highly recommended). If not then start low and add until you reach your desired amp draw

I'm sure I speak for every one here who has been doing this awhile, put the baking soda back in the fridge and get yourself some KOH!
Here's a link.

http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-13/2-lbs-Potassium-Hydroxide/Detail

[lhazleton]

The only ones that use baking soda are the guys that have those 'Water for Gas" makebelieve reactors or other such nonsense.

[cabrera]

The only ones that use baking soda are the guys that have those 'Water for Gas" makebelieve reactors or other such nonsense.

LEE WAZZUP? How's the gaskets holding up?

[lhazleton]

Andy,
If you were where you're supposed to be, you'd know what's up!
Gaskets are fine. The 6x9 pulls 60 amps cold @ at least 5LPM.
Nick sounds really excited about it. If you'd go there, ya might find out more:D

I hate all this fu**in' snow!

[cabrera]

Andy,
If you were where you're supposed to be, you'd know what's up!
Gaskets are fine. The 6x9 pulls 60 amps cold @ at least 5LPM.
Nick sounds really excited about it. If you'd go there, ya might find out more:D

I hate all this fu**in' snow!

Think I'll check it out!
We now return you to the original thread!

[linkintiger]

2lbs of KOH per 3/4 gallon that's a lot of koh and after the dry cell use all that mixture what you guys do ? add just water or make a new mixture because i pretty sure that dry cell don't change KOH into gas only just water right?

[H2OPWR]

2lbs of KOH per 3/4 gallon that's a lot of koh and after the dry cell use all that mixture what you guys do ? add just water or make a new mixture because i pretty sure that dry cell don't change KOH into gas only just water right?

If you are not exhausting alot of steam the majority of the KOH will remain in the cell. You should only have to add distilled water.

Larry

[Philldpapill]

Larry, I know you have loads of experience with varying KOH concentrations. Have you ever gathered data on the resistance/efficiency of an electrolysis cell with varying concentrations of KOH or other electrolyte? In my test cell(simple wet cell for testing my PWM stuff), I only have about 1/4lb in about 1.5 gallons of water. Adding more KOH doesn't seem to change the conductivity much at all...

It just seems that after a certain concentration, the gains in conductivity are negligible, but with substantially increased danger due to extremely high concentrations... Does a saturated solution REALLY justify the added danger/risk/corrosive properties?

[H2OPWR]

Larry, I know you have loads of experience with varying KOH concentrations. Have you ever gathered data on the resistance/efficiency of an electrolysis cell with varying concentrations of KOH or other electrolyte? In my test cell(simple wet cell for testing my PWM stuff), I only have about 1/4lb in about 1.5 gallons of water. Adding more KOH doesn't seem to change the conductivity much at all...

It just seems that after a certain concentration, the gains in conductivity are negligible, but with substantially increased danger due to extremely high concentrations... Does a saturated solution REALLY justify the added danger/risk/corrosive properties?

Boy, we could have a 2 hour long conversation on what I beleive is actually happening in a cell with varying concentrations of different e-lites. The short simple answer is that YES stronger concentrations of KOH provides greater effeciency than weaker concentrations. Up to a maximum limit of 33% by weight. That data is confirmed by Quantum Sphere. They are a top notch research company that in conjunction with their other ventures are working with the federal government to attempt to get electrolizer effeciencies above 80%. They have access to equipment that we can only dream of. They have also reached a REAL effeciency of over 87% using nano particle coated nickel 200 plates.

The real world for the rest of us is that stronger mixes will provide little help or maybe even lower effeciencies. Especially with a wet cell like you are playing with. More conductive water also increases current leakage greatly. With a wet cell you will draw more amps but your effeciency may even drop due to the current actually skipping all the neutral plates. A dry cell with nothing to help stop current leakage will also max out in effeciency at around 15% by weight. Any more is just a waste of money.

In addition to increased current leakage you will get run away temps and amp draw. That will require using a PWM that also is a waste of energy but a necessary evil if you are trying to run a cell on a car. Especially on a car where your cell is always heating up then cooling down you will have issues.

I have at least for now abondoned experimenting with vehicles. The automotive electronics just pose too much of a problem to reasonably overcome. MAF enhancers and EFIE's are simply not enough. My research now only includes effeciency research and soon testing on a gen set.

With a design like my Nickel/Teflon cell strong concentrations are a big help. Also in freezing weather strong concentrations are a huge help as well but for those who are simply making a standard dry cell and bolting it on their car 28% is overkill and may result in lower effeciencies overall due to increased current leakage.

My best advice to those reading this is as follows. If you are using a normal dry cell in above freezing weather to use only enough KOH to get to your desired amp draw and no more. Only use a PWM if you absuletly must. If you are making a more complex design like my cell or Shanes Shim cell then go with 28 to 33% KOH and use caution.

When I get done with some more conclusive testing I will start a thread about what I and a few others beleive is really happening in the cell. It may surprise most of us.

Larry

[linkintiger]

did you ever try to use http://www.dranoenespanol.com/i/prod_kitchencrystals.jpg in your cell?

[H2OPWR]

did you ever try to use http://www.dranoenespanol.com/i/prod_kitchencrystals.jpg in your cell?

No, I have never used that product. I purchased it once because it is a NaOH base. (Sodium Hydroxide). There appears to be some sort of metallic granules in it as well as NaOH. I did not want to use it in my cell. If NaOH is what you want to run then there are many products that are pure Sodium Hydroxide available fairly cheap. I still recomment KOH over it though.

Larry

[linkintiger]

yup i know that koh is good but the problem is i dont wana buy online (bad experience with credit cards) i want to buy in some local store my zip is 60055 but i can't find any .

[AllOverYa]

[QUOTE=cabrera;37905]http://www.alexandgregory.com/images/Ben%20kenobi%20ghost.gif

Use the KOH Link!

It's not dangerous...unless you get thirsty or decide to use it as eyewash.
I make my mix (28%) roughly 2Lbs of KOH to 3/4 gal of water.
Use goggles & gloves (little cuticle cuts burn if you get KOH mix on them).

Did I just read 2lbs to 3/4 of a gallon, that sounds insane. Are you making KOH pancakes for your HHO?

[cabrera]

It's not dangerous...unless you get thirsty or decide to use it as eyewash.
I make my mix (28%) roughly 2Lbs of KOH to 3/4 gal of water.
Use goggles & gloves (little cuticle cuts burn if you get KOH mix on them).

Did I just read 2lbs to 3/4 of a gallon, that sounds insane. Are you making KOH pancakes for your HHO?

Pancakes.....hmmm
Nope making a 28% KOH mix which will not freeze. a 2 lbs container of 93% KOH flake is the size of a shampoo bottle, it won't make a paste <lol> It works like a charm and I control the amperage draw with a PWM. If you live in a location where cold is not a issue, Like some people I know of,

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wgh3P0eqLmk/SaE2HJUngrI/AAAAAAAAEpw/4tKf785Vkq4/s400/20050121_v_homer-simpson4.jpg
then I would say save the KOH & add until your happy.

28% has been the recommended mix for this by many HHO users. I'm sure that I could use less if I started adding & adding KOH until I reach my desired amps. But for me this works great.

[lhazleton]

Damn right Andy! I've been using nothing but a 28% mix for a long time now and it's always performed well.:D