scientists find way to make cheap gas from coal

[HHO BLASTER]

http://www.wfaa.com/news/gasoline-84801677.html

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[HHO BLASTER]

What, no feed back???

[RustyLugNut]

It will have to be seen if they can do this economically to compete with sweet crude at it's current price of 75 dollars per barrel.

These ideas are built on old technology that was used only in dire situations when cost wasn't an issue ( Nazi Germany, Apartheid South Africa, etc.).

However, these new techniques will give us bridging technology for the transition after Peak Oil occurs. All these new techniques to provide oil, though at a higher price, can be coupled with higher efficiency engines to balance out the bottom line - cost per mile traveled or cost per ton delivered.

[H2OPWR]

Gary, Nice find but do you really think that it will do anything but benefit the oil company's bottom line. It will take someone to find something that the common man can do to benefit humanity.

Larry

[RustyLugNut]

I have no problem funding an oil companies profits, if there is a competitor involved. The problem is funding countries through these oil companies - countries which are unfriendly to us. If the oil company is using American resources, it will be Americans who benefit the most. I like Texas anyways, and don't mind my monies going there to make oil out of low grade coal.

Until we have fusion reactors in every home, we will need utilities and energy company's distribution capabilities to bring us the concentrated energies Americans desire. If we are willing to live with much less, then we can rely on the more diffuse solar and wind energies to power us.

[Philldpapill]

Ha! This happened at MY school! Awesome to hear they are still doing good research. :D

[oicu812]

wow!! scientists call this a breakthrough? you've got to be kidding me! rural America used this back in the 1900's they called it town gas. Injecting steam through a bed of white hot coal produces a feedstock of hydrogen rich gas along with tons of Co2.

[RustyLugNut]

This research is based on old principles, but let us not belittle the work before we understand more fully.

The partial oxidation and water shift reaction to get town gas was used over a hundred years ago.

Fischer-Tropsch has been used since around WW2, to take the aforementioned town gas (synthesis gas) and - with the use of catalysts and the manipulation of pressure, temperature and residence time - produce hydrocarbon liquids. Varying yield and high emission of pollutants are some of the short comings of this process.

From what I can gather, this "new technology" seems to produce the synthesis gas in an insulated enclosure, with relatively low temperature catalytic reactions. The catalyst conversion must be much more selective than previous methods as a simple cooling column serves as a distillation tower. This selectivity seems to be the strength of this approach and would give the technology greater yield and thus greater economic viability.

I hope they can scale this up to industrial size. Going up in scale from Lab table to industrial complex has many pitfalls that are often unseen until you approach them. So, I take their extrapolated costs per barrel with a great deal of skepticism.

[HHO BLASTER]

this research is based on old principles, but let us not belittle the work before we understand more fully.

The partial oxidation and water shift reaction to get town gas was used over a hundred years ago.

Fischer-tropsch has been used since around ww2, to take the aforementioned town gas (synthesis gas) and - with the use of catalysts and the manipulation of pressure, temperature and residence time - produce hydrocarbon liquids. Varying yield and high emission of pollutants are some of the short comings of this process.

From what i can gather, this "new technology" seems to produce the synthesis gas in an insulated enclosure, with relatively low temperature catalytic reactions. The catalyst conversion must be much more selective than previous methods as a simple cooling column serves as a distillation tower. This selectivity seems to be the strength of this approach and would give the technology greater yield and thus greater economic viability.

I hope they can scale this up to industrial size. Going up in scale from lab table to industrial complex has many pitfalls that are often unseen until you approach them. So, i take their extrapolated costs per barrel with a great deal of skepticism.

please read it again, then again, they did up scale it.

[HHO BLASTER]

Gary, Nice find but do you really think that it will do anything but benefit the oil company's bottom line. It will take someone to find something that the common man can do to benefit humanity.

Larry

If it's cheap Larry, NO

[RustyLugNut]

please read it again, then again, they did up scale it.

They do not have a pilot plant up yet. I assume they have moved to a skid sized demonstration unit. There is a huge difference between that and a 100,000 bbl per day plant. There is a long way to go in bringing this to market. Partnering with an oil firm will expedite this to some degree, but, one still needs to be a bit skeptical within reason.

[HHO BLASTER]

they do not have a pilot plant up yet. I assume they have moved to a skid sized demonstration unit. There is a huge difference between that and a 100,000 bbl per day plant. There is a long way to go in bringing this to market. Partnering with an oil firm will expedite this to some degree, but, one still needs to be a bit skeptical within reason.

Obama should buy them out, and give the info how to do it to the world for free

[RustyLugNut]

Which one would you buy out? Which one will make it in the market place?

It would be better to have the market decide. Politics is needed to provide the framework for the free market to work - nothing else. Bailouts are the for the desperate.

[HHO BLASTER]

Which one would you buy out? Which one will make it in the market place?

It would be better to have the market decide. Politics is needed to provide the framework for the free market to work - nothing else. Bailouts are the for the desperate.

Oh, like the screwed up health insurance industry who want more and more,

that don't work in a free market because of greed, and this if left to the free

market will end up just like MIT, with there HHO breakthrough bought out and killed

[Philldpapill]

Wow, HHO_Blaster, I can't tell if you were joking about the "Obama should buy them out" statement. Was that serious? You do realize that WE would be buying them out, right? Actually, sorry - CHINA would be buying them out as this whole Trillion $$$ deficit situation that is going on right now, is funded by others like China(the primary buyer of US debt). Dude, that whole mindset of state takeover of private enterprise is what lead to communist Russia. Obama may share a tid bit in common with the marxist ideology, but that isn't a road we should go down... We've gone far enough, and I hope to god people keep waking the F up to this nonsense.

BTW, I had some surgery done and I'm all kinds of doped up on Vicodin. It's nice, but if you've ever had morphine for something, you could probably have sympathy for heroine addicts. That stuff is mind blowingly wonderful. Excuse me if I'm not making sense. That's what luuuuuv does to you. Damn this is good.

[HHO BLASTER]

Wow, HHO_Blaster, I can't tell if you were joking about the "Obama should buy them out" statement. Was that serious? You do realize that WE would be buying them out, right? Actually, sorry - CHINA would be buying them out as this whole Trillion $$$ deficit situation that is going on right now, is funded by others like China(the primary buyer of US debt). Dude, that whole mindset of state takeover of private enterprise is what lead to communist Russia. Obama may share a tid bit in common with the marxist ideology, but that isn't a road we should go down... We've gone far enough, and I hope to god people keep waking the F up to this nonsense.

BTW, I had some surgery done and I'm all kinds of doped up on Vicodin. It's nice, but if you've ever had morphine for something, you could probably have sympathy for heroine addicts. That stuff is mind blowingly wonderful. Excuse me if I'm not making sense. That's what luuuuuv does to you. Damn this is good.

Been there from pain, kidney, gallstone hip replacement thank God i have Medicare or i would be living on the street

Our country needs heath care reform, bad

Sure leave everything to the free market, so there greed will kill the little guy

[RustyLugNut]

Oh, like the screwed up health insurance industry who want more and more,

that don't work in a free market because of greed, and this if left to the free

market will end up just like MIT, with there HHO breakthrough bought out and killed

If you are using the mess in the health care industry as an allegorical parallel to the energy industry, make your point and stay on topic. If you are not, then you are taking a tangent in the discussion. Start another thread on insurance reform if you please.

As to the MIT breakthrough, it was not in HHO. If you are referring to the MIT plasmatron, it produced something akin to town gas through partial oxidation of the fuel stream aided by the hi energy radicals of a low temperature plasma generator. It was not "bought out and shelved". The patent rights were purchased by Arvin Meritor, if memory serves me right. The device is being tested and improved and will probably see the light of day on large heavy diesels to help them pass the stringent emission requirements that are upon us. Smaller, more compact and cost effective units will see use in passenger cars at a later date.

Many seemingly wonderful inventions never make it to market because of the simplest things. A government cover up is never a simple thing.

[HHO BLASTER]

If you are using the mess in the health care industry as an allegorical parallel to the energy industry, make your point and stay on topic. If you are not, then you are taking a tangent in the discussion. Start another thread on insurance reform if you please.

As to the MIT breakthrough, it was not in HHO. If you are referring to the MIT plasmatron, it produced something akin to town gas through partial oxidation of the fuel stream aided by the hi energy radicals of a low temperature plasma generator. It was not "bought out and shelved". The patent rights were purchased by Arvin Meritor, if memory serves me right. The device is being tested and improved and will probably see the light of day on large heavy diesels to help them pass the stringent emission requirements that are upon us. Smaller, more compact and cost effective units will see use in passenger cars at a later date.

Many seemingly wonderful inventions never make it to market because of the simplest things. A government cover up is never a simple thing.

Of course the MIT BREAKTHROUGH WAS ON HHO, IT SPLIT WATER DID IT NOT????

[RustyLugNut]

Of course the MIT BREAKTHROUGH WAS ON HHO, IT SPLIT WATER DID IT NOT????

If we are speaking of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's work on fuel reformation via low temperature plasma and partial oxidation, then, NO it does not split water. It is not HHO.

[oicu812]

True it was not hho as we know it... it is more of a fuel reformer. by passing a stream of vaporized feedstock through a plasma arc a hydrogen rich gas is produced, some call it syngas very similar to town gas. Almost any hydrocarbon fuel mixed with water will work. Used motor oil, deisel, gasoline, ethanol,methanol ect.. Its not a perfectly clean technology as some c02 is a byproduct. the advantages are carbon monoxide and N0x are almost zero. It runs at a much cooler temperature than traditional fuel reformers and produces many times the amount of hydrogen at a fraction of the power compared with electrolysis. Personally, I truely believe consumers will never see this technology.

[oicu812]

Of course the MIT BREAKTHROUGH WAS ON HHO, IT SPLIT WATER DID IT NOT???? I remember the other breakthrough at MIT . Are you talking about the cobalt, phosphate electrolysis work being done ( I forgot the name of the profesor :( his work allows a non-nobel metal to be used as the anode, unfortunatly platinum is still used as a cathode. At least he's got half the equasion figured out.

[HHO BLASTER]

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html

SOOOOOOOOOO, WHERE IS THIS NOW? IT'S REAL, IT'S HIDDEN BOUGHT OUT BY A SMALL COMPANY AND EVEN THE PATENT IS HIDDEN FOR 18 MONTHS HOW DO I KNOW THIS, MY BUDDY IS A PATENT LAWYER AND CHECKED IT OUT

BET BIG OIL BOUGHT THEM OUT BY USING A SMALL COMPANY THAT THEY OWN TO BUY THEM

IT'S GONE FOR GOOD, IT WOULD TAKE A ACT OF CONGRESS TO FREE IT

[oicu812]

Yep... same thing happens every time a promising technology comes down the pike. big money buys it out and it never sees the light of day. MIT does facinating work but it seams there just *****s for research funding:(

[HHO BLASTER]

Yep... same thing happens every time a promising technology comes down the pike. big money buys it out and it never sees the light of day. MIT does facinating work but it seams there just *****s for research funding:(

I think the bloom box may stay because big players are using it and it was on CBS BUT AMERICANS HAVE SHORT MEMORIES

[RustyLugNut]

Thanks for the link. I do remember reading this article a few years back. It does produce hydrogen and oxygen gas.

It is good lab work, but really is too far removed for industrial introduction. The problem is that it mimics photosynthesis, to a degree - meaning it is a slow process. As it stands, the Nocera device would have to be the size of a large warehouse to provide the hydrogen gas needed to power a small town. This can be improved upon if more work is done, and I have no doubt they are working on it, but it may be sometime before this sees the market - my guess is 10 to 20 years - if it makes it at all. That is the problem with most of this research one never knows what will be a viable principle to build an industrial process upon. You just have to do the research.

As to the hidden patent. It probably is in the provisional stage. It is hidden,as the formal process goes forward. Rejections, editing and reapplication follow. This is normal for a patent application. Once a patent is granted, it becomes public.

In summary, a lot of good science can become good research but doesn't always become good industry. There are thousands of energy patents that will never see the market because of various pitfalls.

[HHO BLASTER]

Thanks for the link. I do remember reading this article a few years back. It does produce hydrogen and oxygen gas.

It is good lab work, but really is too far removed for industrial introduction. The problem is that it mimics photosynthesis, to a degree - meaning it is a slow process. As it stands, the Nocera device would have to be the size of a large warehouse to provide the hydrogen gas needed to power a small town. This can be improved upon if more work is done, and I have no doubt they are working on it, but it may be sometime before this sees the market - my guess is 10 to 20 years - if it makes it at all. That is the problem with most of this research one never knows what will be a viable principle to build an industrial process upon. You just have to do the research.

As to the hidden patent. It probably is in the provisional stage. It is hidden,as the formal process goes forward. Rejections, editing and reapplication follow. This is normal for a patent application. Once a patent is granted, it becomes public.

In summary, a lot of good science can become good research but doesn't always become good industry. There are thousands of energy patents that will never see the market because of various pitfalls.

No it's not in the provisional stage, you can do a check yourself, it's in a very special thing, i forgot what my buddy called it, but it can be 18 months and they can renew it to keep it, to keep from ever seeing the light of day so if you thing the free market is good, here is the perfect example it's not all the time

Just watch this coal to oil project, die on the vine

[RustyLugNut]

No it's not in the provisional stage, you can do a check yourself, it's in a very special thing, i forgot what my buddy called it, but it can be 18 months and they can renew it to keep it, to keep from ever seeing the light of day so if you thing the free market is good, here is the perfect example it's not all the time

Just watch this coal to oil project, die on the vine

Why would someone NOT cash in on an idea? The energy sector dwarfs the medical sector. A small slice could yield BILLIONS in profits. I contend people are inherently greedy, and no one could keep an idea with true value from seeing the light of day. No one, and that includes the government. Conspiracy theorist just miss the fact that most of these "hallelujah" inventions are patents that don't work in the market.

Take the 200mpg carburetor. I was one of those college kids during the 70's gas crisis who had access to a machine shop and a college library. We made a heated vapor carburetor that doubled the mileage of our big old Dodge. What the patent failed to tell you is that power was minimal, and that thing could barely do 40 mph.

There are already dozens of coal to liquid patents filed in the last year alone. Ad to that the tar sands to liquids. How about bio mass to liquids. The government cannot keep all these ideas from coming into widespread use if they are valid. Most of these patents are filed in the EU and Asian markets as well. I doubt our evil government has THAT much reach. The Chinese don't even care about patents, and steal ideas willy nilly. They are using several coal to liquid technologies. They will use what works. No matter what our MIB government thinks of it.

Patents do not stop people from USING your ideas. It only allows you to sue them in a court of law. And, even if you have a patent, believe me, there are smart teams of lawyers,scientists and engineers that do nothing but figure out ways to circumvent and/or nullify your patent. I know, I used to be on one of those corporate teams. Greed is a powerful and driving force. If the Texas coal to oil Idea has any merit, I guarantee you there are corporate spies who will be working on ways to avoid the patents and build there own technology and get a piece of the HUGE energy pie!

Do you know that multi axis CNC machining equipment was considered crucial enough to national security, that the government frowned on overseas sales. It didn't matter. The technology was too valuable and German and Japanese firms developed their own versions and ran with it. Now you can buy multi axis machining centers capable of producing critical components for a nuclear device. For a reasonable price. I know, I have three of them. The government couldn't stop it.

The market may not be kind to the individuals needs, but it is good at making money. If your idea helps someone make a pile of money, no power on earth is gonna stop it. Assuming it really works!

Now watch, Obama's men are going to catch the phrase "nuclear device" in this post and blame it on the thread originator! Watch out Blaster! The MIB will come knocking!

[HHO BLASTER]

Why would someone NOT cash in on an idea? The energy sector dwarfs the medical sector. A small slice could yield BILLIONS in profits. I contend people are inherently greedy, and no one could keep an idea with true value from seeing the light of day. No one, and that includes the government. Conspiracy theorist just miss the fact that most of these "hallelujah" inventions are patents that don't work in the market.

Take the 200mpg carburetor. I was one of those college kids during the 70's gas crisis who had access to a machine shop and a college library. We made a heated vapor carburetor that doubled the mileage of our big old Dodge. What the patent failed to tell you is that power was minimal, and that thing could barely do 40 mph.

There are already dozens of coal to liquid patents filed in the last year alone. Ad to that the tar sands to liquids. How about bio mass to liquids. The government cannot keep all these ideas from coming into widespread use if they are valid. Most of these patents are filed in the EU and Asian markets as well. I doubt our evil government has THAT much reach. The Chinese don't even care about patents, and steal ideas willy nilly. They are using several coal to liquid technologies. They will use what works. No matter what our MIB government thinks of it.

Patents do not stop people from USING your ideas. It only allows you to sue them in a court of law. And, even if you have a patent, believe me, there are smart teams of lawyers,scientists and engineers that do nothing but figure out ways to circumvent and/or nullify your patent. I know, I used to be on one of those corporate teams. Greed is a powerful and driving force. If the Texas coal to oil Idea has any merit, I guarantee you there are corporate spies who will be working on ways to avoid the patents and build there own technology and get a piece of the HUGE energy pie!

Do you know that multi axis CNC machining equipment was considered crucial enough to national security, that the government frowned on overseas sales. It didn't matter. The technology was too valuable and German and Japanese firms developed their own versions and ran with it. Now you can buy multi axis machining centers capable of producing critical components for a nuclear device. For a reasonable price. I know, I have three of them. The government couldn't stop it.

The market may not be kind to the individuals needs, but it is good at making money. If your idea helps someone make a pile of money, no power on earth is gonna stop it. Assuming it really works!

Now watch, Obama's men are going to catch the phrase "nuclear device" in this post and blame it on the thread originator! Watch out Blaster! The MIB will come knocking!

It will end up like the MIT DEAL, SORRY THERE ARE VERY RICH ARABS WHO

WILL KILL SO CHINA DOES NOT GET IT, THEY WANT CHINA'S BUSINESS

SORRY BUT IT'S HISTORY, THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT LIKE THE BLOOM

THING, OR SELL IT TO ISRAEL, WHY ISRAEL BECAUSE THEY WANT THE ARABS

TO LOSE THERE MONEY, BECAUSE IT'S SUPPORTS THE ARAB WAR WITH

ISRAEL PLUS THEY HAVE NO OIL, AND IMPORT IT AT A HIGH PRICE

[RustyLugNut]

It will end up like the MIT DEAL, SORRY THERE ARE VERY RICH ARABS WHO

WILL KILL SO CHINA DOES NOT GET IT, THEY WANT CHINA'S BUSINESS

SORRY BUT IT'S HISTORY, THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT LIKE THE BLOOM

THING, OR SELL IT TO ISRAEL, WHY ISRAEL BECAUSE THEY WANT THE ARABS

TO LOSE THERE MONEY, BECAUSE IT'S SUPPORTS THE ARAB WAR WITH

ISRAEL PLUS THEY HAVE NO OIL, AND IMPORT IT AT A HIGH PRICE


Wow Blaster, it is clear you will hear only what you desire to hear and see what you want to see.

China is ALREADY using various coal to liquid technologies! There is nothing that the Arabs can do about that.

South Africa has been using advanced versions of the Fisher-Tropsch process for decades. The Arabs can do nothing about that.

Canada is our number one oil supplier mainly from the Tar Sand deposits they hold in abundance and are developing ever cleaner and more efficient methods to extract the oil. There is absolutely nothing the Arabs can do about that.

Someday soon the Arab nations will run out of oil. There is nothing the Arabs can do about that - except invest in their future! Many Arab countries are buying and developing and deploying alternative energy technologies because they know full well, that is going to be the future.

I have several colleagues who work with bio-tech firms developing the oil from algae approach to our fuel needs. The technology is promising, but with many hurdles yet to cross. They are only one of dozens of teams working this technological slant. They have not been threatened or killed by ninjas. They are sure the process will someday be viable.

Along with their work will be literally dozens of effective processes to bridge us to the next energy revolution - nuclear fusion.

And there is nothing the Arabs can do about that.

[Philldpapill]

HHO_BLASTER, my dad worked for Shell Oil for over 25 years. He's an engineer. He's a good man. You need to remember that oil companies are made up of many, many, many, good, hard working people that have a moral compass, just like most companies. When you say "Big Oil probably bought out the patents", it sure sounds like you are implying there is a massive conspiracy at work with the goal of supressing the little guy, and keeping the little guy down, just for the sake of keeping the little guy down. That's victim mentality. It's stupid.

The idea that they are doing this for profit, on the other hand, isn't AS stupid, but it's still pretty dumb. Assuming they have the patent on this ground breaking technology, it would be MORE profitable to capitalize on it, move towards being the sole provider of the technology, and gain "green PR points" in the process. It's a totally win-win situation for "Big Oil" to create a monopoly on the technology. However, in your world, they drop billions in capital to "buy out" this technology, just to throw it in the trash can so that they can stay in the less profitable oil business... Right.

Remember, it takes ---HUGE--- amounts of money to get that oil out of the ground. It's not a cheap business. You have HUGE amounts of skilled labor to pay, and project planning to do. I know this forum is devoted to the advancement of HHO useage, but I'm sick and tired of people bad mouthing the oil companies for providing a CHEAP(yes, I said cheap when you look at profit vs. costs ratio in the business) product to you. If you want to blame someone for your high fuel prices, blame OPEC and the jacka$$ speculators trying to make a buck off of oil futures.

As for your whole insurance industry garbage... It's lunacy. Insurance industry profit margins are < 10%. Think about what that means(verify it, too!)... That means that even if you took insurance companies profits COMPLETELY out of your medical costs, that's still 90% of $5,000 cost for a broken leg... But I guess you'd be ok with paying the $4,500 for a broken leg... That's not where the huge costs are, BUT like most people that soak up the politicians scapegoat non-sense, you don't realize that the HUGE majority of costs are in the other form of insurance.... i.e. medical malpractice insurance. I was talking to my doctor a few months back and in the chitchat, he mentioned that over 50% of his operating costs go to his liability insurance. Everytime you go the to doctor, you're giving half your money to some jacka$$ trial lawyer by proxy of the insurance claims when someone sues for an owwwey on their toe following "medical negligance". You're right - we need reform, but NOT the kind of useless, political point scoring, crap that Obama and his media keep pushing. We need tort reform ASAP.


Anyway, sorry to hijack that thread for a bit, RustyLugNut.

[HHO BLASTER]

Wow Blaster, it is clear you will hear only what you desire to hear and see what you want to see.

China is ALREADY using various coal to liquid technologies! There is nothing that the Arabs can do about that.

South Africa has been using advanced versions of the Fisher-Tropsch process for decades. The Arabs can do nothing about that.

Canada is our number one oil supplier mainly from the Tar Sand deposits they hold in abundance and are developing ever cleaner and more efficient methods to extract the oil. There is absolutely nothing the Arabs can do about that.

Someday soon the Arab nations will run out of oil. There is nothing the Arabs can do about that - except invest in their future! Many Arab countries are buying and developing and deploying alternative energy technologies because they know full well, that is going to be the future.

I have several colleagues who work with bio-tech firms developing the oil from algae approach to our fuel needs. The technology is promising, but with many hurdles yet to cross. They are only one of dozens of teams working this technological slant. They have not been threatened or killed by ninjas. They are sure the process will someday be viable.

Along with their work will be literally dozens of effective processes to bridge us to the next energy revolution - nuclear fusion.

And there is nothing the Arabs can do about that.

Algae is the best way, i wish it could become what we did in the 60's to the space race, we would be there already

Or like when the Japs blew up our navel we built a new one in 10 months

OUR COUNTRY, AND THE WORLD NEEDS CHEAP FUEL

[HHO BLASTER]

HHO_BLASTER, my dad worked for Shell Oil for over 25 years. He's an engineer. He's a good man. You need to remember that oil companies are made up of many, many, many, good, hard working people that have a moral compass, just like most companies. When you say "Big Oil probably bought out the patents", it sure sounds like you are implying there is a massive conspiracy at work with the goal of supressing the little guy, and keeping the little guy down, just for the sake of keeping the little guy down. That's victim mentality. It's stupid.

The idea that they are doing this for profit, on the other hand, isn't AS stupid, but it's still pretty dumb. Assuming they have the patent on this ground breaking technology, it would be MORE profitable to capitalize on it, move towards being the sole provider of the technology, and gain "green PR points" in the process. It's a totally win-win situation for "Big Oil" to create a monopoly on the technology. However, in your world, they drop billions in capital to "buy out" this technology, just to throw it in the trash can so that they can stay in the less profitable oil business... Right.

Remember, it takes ---HUGE--- amounts of money to get that oil out of the ground. It's not a cheap business. You have HUGE amounts of skilled labor to pay, and project planning to do. I know this forum is devoted to the advancement of HHO useage, but I'm sick and tired of people bad mouthing the oil companies for providing a CHEAP(yes, I said cheap when you look at profit vs. costs ratio in the business) product to you. If you want to blame someone for your high fuel prices, blame OPEC and the jacka$$ speculators trying to make a buck off of oil futures.

As for your whole insurance industry garbage... It's lunacy. Insurance industry profit margins are < 10%. Think about what that means(verify it, too!)... That means that even if you took insurance companies profits COMPLETELY out of your medical costs, that's still 90% of $5,000 cost for a broken leg... But I guess you'd be ok with paying the $4,500 for a broken leg... That's not where the huge costs are, BUT like most people that soak up the politicians scapegoat non-sense, you don't realize that the HUGE majority of costs are in the other form of insurance.... i.e. medical malpractice insurance. I was talking to my doctor a few months back and in the chitchat, he mentioned that over 50% of his operating costs go to his liability insurance. Everytime you go the to doctor, you're giving half your money to some jacka$$ trial lawyer by proxy of the insurance claims when someone sues for an owwwey on their toe following "medical negligance". You're right - we need reform, but NOT the kind of useless, political point scoring, crap that Obama and his media keep pushing. We need tort reform ASAP.


Anyway, sorry to hijack that thread for a bit, RustyLugNut.

I can SEE were you tune in every night FOX FIXED NEWS

[RustyLugNut]

I can SEE were you tune in every night FOX FIXED NEWS

Phil is absolutely right about the cost of medicine in this country. You don't need to listen to Fox news to realize this. A great portion of our patient monies goes to cover the Physicians insurance.

My cousin, a physician, saw this very clearly as he started his own practice. A few years later, he saw where all the money was going and became a lawyer specializing in medical malpractice. He is making more money now than when he was a physician. This is first hand support of what Phil indicated in his post.

But, let's get back on track with this thread.

What our country needs is a combination of things that will allow ourselves to be free of foreign oil. We import roughly 40-50% of our oil. The bulk coming from Canada. But, Saudi Arabia is still a major source. If we could find technology that covers the output of Saudi Arabia's imports, we could wean ourselves from their influence. If we could reduce fuel use at it's source via HHO devices for example, these alternative sources do not have to bridge the entire import volume.

Increased domestic sources such as the Oil from Texas Coal Idea, coupled with vehicles that use considerably less fuel, will mean greater stability of prices as well as greater national security.

[RustyLugNut]

I'm sorry to get off track but your miss-type was just too funny - I'm still laughing. My navel has not been the same after the attack. They missed my wife's because her bellybutton is as cute as ever!

Keep this thread rolling Blaster!

[Philldpapill]

FOR THE RECORD: I don't have Cable TV. Hell, I don't even have a TV. It's a total waste of time IMO. I rarely watch Fox or any of the major media outlets for that matter. I read the news from various sources online, and do my own research and verifying. However, I think it's funny that so many people climb all over Fox News. Out of all the mainstream media outlets, ONE has a conservative leaning viewpoint, and liberals yell and scream calling it everything under the sun. There are about 10 mainstream media outlets, and 9 of those have a pretty blatent liberal bias, vs. 1 conservative bias. Talk about tolerance for other perspectives...

However, I'm not sure where in my rant you got the idea that I'm some kind of mindless sheep and "tune in every night to Fox Fixed News"... I stated what my own personal physician has said, and what I gathered from the statistics that I've found. If you have total disregard for the facts, I think I know where YOU tune in every night, Blaster.............

[RustyLugNut]

Here is a link to a movie trailer that is very pertinent to what we are discussing here.

http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/

I hope that works.

[HHO BLASTER]

I'm sorry to get off track but your miss-type was just too funny - I'm still laughing. My navel has not been the same after the attack. They missed my wife's because her bellybutton is as cute as ever!

Keep this thread rolling Blaster!

Fox is fixed

[HHO BLASTER]

FOR THE RECORD: I don't have Cable TV. Hell, I don't even have a TV. It's a total waste of time IMO. I rarely watch Fox or any of the major media outlets for that matter. I read the news from various sources online, and do my own research and verifying. However, I think it's funny that so many people climb all over Fox News. Out of all the mainstream media outlets, ONE has a conservative leaning viewpoint, and liberals yell and scream calling it everything under the sun. There are about 10 mainstream media outlets, and 9 of those have a pretty blatent liberal bias, vs. 1 conservative bias. Talk about tolerance for other perspectives...

However, I'm not sure where in my rant you got the idea that I'm some kind of mindless sheep and "tune in every night to Fox Fixed News"... I stated what my own personal physician has said, and what I gathered from the statistics that I've found. If you have total disregard for the facts, I think I know where YOU tune in every night, Blaster.............

For sure, not fox, and for the record only MSNBC IS A LIB CHANNEL THE REST LEAN TO THE RIGHT

AND THE BIG ASS ON FIX NEWS IS GLENN BECK, THE RETARDED

[Philldpapill]

You.... bastar...d...... We may have different viewpoints of the world, and that's ok... But using all caps for more than two words, and lack of punctuation is just unforgiveable. Blaster, you're now in the Richard pile in my book. This conversation is over. LOL j/k.

[HHO BLASTER]

You.... bastar...d...... We may have different viewpoints of the world, and that's ok... But using all caps for more than two words, and lack of punctuation is just unforgiveable. Blaster, you're now in the Richard pile in my book. This conversation is over. LOL j/k.

I won't lose sleep over it