So let me get this straight

[AllOverYa]

I am really new to the HHO world, so bare with me.
I have an HHO system installed on my 1997 Honda Accord LX 2.2L. After a week and a half of one flub after another I feel I am actually getting somewhere.
Now to my questions:
1) Will an HHO system work for MPG without adding any "ECU fooling" equipment to my car?
B) Is it possible to have to much vacuum on one of these?

I actually, per suggestion from manufacturer, had to drill holes in my bubbler lid due to the vacuum from my car collapsing it, that was fun. Then the holes were to small and I sucked all the water straight in to my engine in a 40 mile drive. Funny, it looked like I was running on water from my exhaust steaming. Now I have the pressure regulated and still not a single MPG gain, in fact I lost 4 MPG. I unplugged both O2 Sensors, one was already bad, and now my car runs like a scalded dog, but no MPG gains. Also my idle takes about 15 seconds to come down to normal range at a stop, I have a stick.
Does any of this sound familiar?

Thanks for any input for an HHO NEWB.

[fastcompacts]

Well first i would like to say hello and welcome to the world of hho. To keep this short and to answer your questions.
1. there may be some instances where you would not have to modify the ECU to get MPG gains but this is very rare. most modern vehicles will need some sort of modification anywhere from O2 extenders(dont really recommend) to an EFIE to an AFC(air flow converter) and there is even a MAF/MAP modification. But in the end you will more than likely need to modify the signal to the ECU. And yes your mileage will most likely decrease unless you modify the signal.
2. As far as vacuum goes i think you answered your own question when you said that you sucked up the e-lyte into your engine. So yes you can have too much vacuum. But it looks like you solved that problem by venting the system.
Good luck and happy tuning.

[lhazleton]

You'll need an O2 EFIE at least to see any gains. Since your car has a mechanical distributor (you're lucky), you'll need to retard the timing somewhat to allow for the faster burn.
As far as the vacuum is concerned, it shouldn't be hooked up there. The connection should be in the air intake between the air filter & the throttle body.
You mentioned the bubbler 'lid' collapsing & the manufacturer telling you to drill holes in it. I'm almost afraid to ask what kind of reactor you have. It sounds like one of those bogus ones that uses baking soda and wire spirals.
Before doing anything, let us know exactly what type of 'system' you have.

Lee

[cabrera]

Good points Lee. Definitely need more info on the system so you can get the right advice.


you'll need to retard the timing somewhat to allow for the faster burn.Lee
Ow Jeez Lee, Now you've gone an said it, Now your gonna have Sarah Palin on your butt!

[lhazleton]

Andy,
I mean retard as in timing degrees, not like you, ya window licker!

[cabrera]

andy,
i mean retard as in timing degrees, not like you, ya window licker!

That's cuz I'm Thpecial!
dee dee dee!!!

[lhazleton]

Andy,
I broke down today and bought a sheet of EPDM for my 6x9 reactor.
Hopefully, it won't leak anymore. It's also thinner than the curtain material I was using.
May shoot me over 3LPM, but then I'll just have to use my PWM.

[cabrera]

Andy,
I broke down today and bought a sheet of EPDM for my 6x9 reactor.
Hopefully, it won't leak anymore. It's also thinner than the curtain material I was using.
May shoot me over 3LPM, but then I'll just have to use my PWM.

That stuff works great, I left my cell on overnight on the bench with my battery charger hooked up to the battery. It ran for 15 hours straight w/o any leaks whatsoever.

[lhazleton]

Mine never leaked while running. It was always after sitting overnight. If it doesn't work right, you owe me $10.

[cabrera]

Mine never leaked while running. It was always after sitting overnight. If it doesn't work right, you owe me $10.

Nope, if it leaks it will prove your inferior reactor building abilities mon, and you should import one or those 300mpg units from "Professor Efficiency" :D

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1479&d=1266672009

[AllOverYa]

I am using a 4" drycell using KOH. Which leads me to my latest issue, I started out with a 1 Tablespoon to 1 quart ratio, which was fine when it was not vented. I was pulling 15 amps, now it has spiked to 30 and no matter how much I dilute it stays the same. I am soooo trying to have patience with this thing :mad:

Much like marriage, it is trial and error.

Thanks again.

I will tard my timing sum

[cabrera]

I am using a 4" drycell using KOH. Which leads me to my latest issue, I started out with a 1 Tablespoon to 1 quart ratio, which was fine when it was not vented. I was pulling 15 amps, now it has spiked to 30 and no matter how much I dilute it stays the same. I am soooo trying to have patience with this thing :mad:

Much like marriage, it is trial and error.

Thanks again.

I will tard my timing sum

Connect a PWM (pulse width modulator). It controls the amperage that the HHO generator will draw. Voltage is modulated as a series of pulses which results in a sine-like flux density waveform in the magnetic circuit of an electromagnetic actuator. The smoothness of the resultant waveform can be controlled by the width and number of modulated impulses per given cycle.

By using this you can make a 10:1 electrolyte which as is would draw enormous amounts of amps but won't freeze, you will now be able to control just how much the HHO generator will get from your alternator.

[cabrera]

Andy,
I broke down today and bought a sheet of EPDM for my 6x9 reactor.
Hopefully, it won't leak anymore. It's also thinner than the curtain material I was using.
May shoot me over 3LPM, but then I'll just have to use my PWM.

Lee. I don't know what size EPDM you bought. Mine is 1/16" thick
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1MYB4

[lhazleton]

I am using a 4" drycell using KOH. Which leads me to my latest issue, I started out with a 1 Tablespoon to 1 quart ratio, which was fine when it was not vented. I was pulling 15 amps, now it has spiked to 30 and no matter how much I dilute it stays the same. I am soooo trying to have patience with this thing :mad:

Much like marriage, it is trial and error.

Thanks again.

I will tard my timing sum

OK, you have a 4" drycell reactor. How many plates? How many cells per stack? What is the plate gap? How much HHO is it producing? It's important to know all of this.
I believe you stated that you've disconnected the O2 sensors. By doing so, the ECM will bypass the information it should be receiving from them and dump even more gas, basically running in 'open loop'. Not a good idea.
Andy, I got the 1/16th also.

[AllOverYa]

I don't know if this helps, i got it from http://www.hydroclubusa.com/.
If you don't mind looking at the specs there. As far as amounts of HHO, dunno. I never actually benched it, and I had no idea how to test gas output at the time. Now it is in my car. So........
Can you please suggest to me where to go to buy all these doomahickies and whatchamacallits I am going to need to make my Honda in to a mean green water burning machine?

Thanks guys,
I especially liked the politically incorrect rant earlier.

[lhazleton]

HydroclubUSA is not well liked. Go here: http://www.pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php
Sorry. As far as looking up the specs, they don't post anything useful.

[AllOverYa]

OK, so lets say I got duped with this system, I am willing to cut my losses and get something that actually works. Can you guide me in the right direction. I most definitely do not have the time or money to manufacture my own system from scratch, but getting another unit is a definite possibility for me. I am sure all I need is a new generator assembly as I have a good bubbler, and lines. I would just like some links or names to look in to to get this party started right.

Heres my deal I drive approx. 1000 to 1500 miles a week almost entirely highway miles. I hope that helps.

[lhazleton]

We're not saying to 'dump' the reactor. Let us know how many plates it has & maybe we can help you make it into something good. If you can get away with merely adding some plates & maybe do a little rewiring, it would be well worth it.

[AllOverYa]

OK, it has 9 plates. 2 negatives on the outside, 1 positive in the middle separated by 2 groups of 3 neutrals. Each plate is separated by what appears to be O-rings maybe a 16th inch wide.

Hope these pictures help

[Helz_McFugly]

using your PCV valve line is not a good idea. you dont want HHO in your crank case. I know its highly unlikely it going to get in there but there is still a slight chance it could get in there. I would not go with the vacuum. Also, 4 cells in series isnt enough. should be at least 6. you have yourself a steam machine. but i guess you have to start somewhere.

[lhazleton]

Damn Helz, ya beat me to it........A$$bag!
Helz it correct. 3 bi-polar plates per stack is a steam maker. You need to add at least 2 more plates per stack. -NNNNN+NNNNN- would be something that'll make Hydroxy. On my 6x6 32 cell reactor, there are 7 neutrals per stack (-NNNNNNN+NNNNNNN-NNNNNNN+NNNNNNN-)
My 6x9 reactor is 14 cells, 6 Bipolar plates per stack(-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-).
You should inject the gas in the cold air intake between the air filter & the throttle body, not into the TB itself. At the moment, your reactor is putting out mostly steam that contains KOH. Any aluminum it touches will deteriorate quickly. Your Honda has an aluminum TB, intake manifold and cylinder head. These can be destroyed easily.

[AllOverYa]

Ahhh Shiznit,
I woke up today and shut down the entire thing. I need to get all the electronics first and now add some plates. Luckily he sells plates as well so I won't need to cut my own.
I don't know if any of you picked up on m previous question about where I should look to get the electronics I need to get. Obviously all of you have a better idea of what works, and who sells it. I could buy a bunch of different things and try them I guess. I saw this online and have no idea if it is a 120$ POS or not.
http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/mileage-chip-for-hho-generator.php

Well, any direction in where to go to buy what I need would be greatly appreciated. I just do NOT want to bleed money in to a bunch of scam material.

Thanks

[lhazleton]

From that website you posted, their 'chip' seems to be the same as the Volo FS2, but nearly double the cost.
Get a PWM to control amperage. Shane Jackson or Phil can hook you up. O2 EFIE is about $50.