New to HHO, which one should i get?

[latemodel33]

i have been hearing about this HHO stuff for quite some time and i am thinking of trying one out on my tow rig. I dont know very much about the systems as far as what is good and what is not but i have narrowed it down to these 3 cells


http://www.marchlabs.com/product_p/ml21%28b%29.htm (http://www.marchlabs.com/product_p/ml21%28b%29.htm)
http://hhotek.com/products_auto_hydrogen.php
http://alternativegassolutions.com/virtuemart/hydro-cell-systems/hydro-cell-system-complete-kit.html


i have a diesel f450 so from what i have read i do not need any of the o2 or map controls....right?

which of those cells should i go with? anyone dealt with any of these guys before?

Also from what i can tell from the pictures the march cell is the largest in physical size and the hhotek one is very small from what i can tell and the hydro cell is kinda hard to tell the actual size, how much does the size matter? if i based it on physical size i would think the march cell would be best but hhotek is the only one who offers a 30 day warranty, but their cell is small.

[Philldpapill]

Why is the alternativegassolutions test video "smoking"???

Marchlabs is over priced, and I don't know about the alternativegassolutions site...

HHOTek might be your best option, but to be honest... All three sites seem a little shady.

[Roland Jacques]

Of the 3 you have, March Lab is without a doubt the best quality. "IMO"
Thier's would last the longest due to there materiials.

Size does matter. The larger the better when all else is equal.

No O2 mods needed.

Ask them about your f-450 application, they have done quite a few installs...

[hhonewbie]

I totally disagree! I fell the smaller the better with all else equal....

But then again I am using Nickel 200... which is far superior to Stainless.

I fell all the cells on the market are overpriced. That is part of the driving force behind me developing my new cell (doubed the "Gem Cell" by all the guys that have seen it)

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My advice, either build it yourself or wait a little while.

Shane
Let us know the price when all said and done. Are you going to make different sizes? I would luv one of your gem cell but im not sure I would be able to afford one and would like to see MPG tests if this is ok for automotive HOD. A nice clean profesional build Shane, well done. Your going to be swamped off of your feet with orders when you start selling.

[latemodel33]

i had a conversation with Trevor from hhotek today and they seem on the up and up he actually told me that you Shane are actually just across town from him and after seeing this new cell you have, that i should give yours a shot if it wasnt tremendously more expensive. i gotta say i was a bit taken back by his level of honesty, its just a bit unusual from the hho companies i have talked to (only 3 or 4) everyone else says they have the best cell and all others are junk and he basically sent me to you lol

Anyways how much is yours going to cost shane? when will they be available

[Roland Jacques]

I totally disagree! I fell the smaller the better with all else equal....



Shane
So what exactly do you disagree with? Do you think that less sq inches of surface area is better than more??? Please explain how 4x4 plates out last, or performs, 6x6 plates stack, all else being equal?

Yes, I agree there are better choices of cells, my 6x6 nickle cell would be better also, but he asked between his 3 choices.

PS. Your cell looks great!!!

[hhonewbie]

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1451&stc=1&d=1265054200
Shane
At what Amps?

[22350]

Yes there will be different sizes. I am hoping to keep the prices as follows:

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1451&stc=1&d=1265054200

The small will be the first available as it is large enough for most peoples needs.

Shane

Definitely a very nice job. Please don't get mad at me, but I have to ask again.

Why do you think that there is no current leakage, if the water supply is common?

Water is a conductor. Just because you run it around a small passage, 7 or 8 inches, doesn't eliminate it's conductivity.

How are the plates prepped in you units?

Can you give us the amperage and voltage for the production claims you quote?

Believe me when I say that it is very well done and that I am not trying to diminish your work.

p

[22350]

Actually you are correct. There is no way to eliminate absolutly all current leakage without completley isolating each gap.

The supply channel is 13.736 inches long from plate to plate. How many Mohms of resistance is that?? How does that compair to the .151 between the plates.

As for the plates they are media blasted to increase surface area.

I will post test results when I get the cell back and make a few changes in the design.

Shane

I don't think the gap between the plates is the issue, it is the voltage traveling through the plates, unless you don't have neutrals.

Anyway, it is a good design regardless.

p

[hhonewbie]

Shane how many Amps are you applying to the gem cell's LPM's?

[lhazleton]

Hey Shane, Glad to finally see your Nickel Reactor in action! After all the months of bustin' your balls about it, it's nice to see the real deal. Maybe Helz will get off his butt and get his done, too LOL.

[b1jetmech]

Shane that thing looks like a piece of art. You know how to get the "eye candy".

Are you staying with acrylic or try something else?

[22350]

Production version will NOT be acrylic. It will probably be ABS or PVC. I may check and see how much clear PVC would cost.... if it's not much more I could go with that.....

Shane


Be careful with those material choices ABS and PVC have lower melting temperatures.

I just ordered nylon, which isn't as high as teflon, but still respectable at 210 f.

With pvc, you might get melting, which would be a bumber.

[22350]

I have not researched exactly which plastic will be best for the job yet.

Perhapse HDPE it has a melting point of 266F......

Shane


I just spent a lot of time, looking into this and comparing.

I was going to go with HDPE, as the price was the best. Even though the melting point is 260f, the operating temperature is only 180f.

Nylon has a melting point of 420f and an operating temp of 200f. 260f, if you get nylon 901.

You could use teflon, 500f, for the gaskets. Just like H2O does and then use polycarbonate for the end caps.

that would probably be good for this design.

my design has a complicated plenum, on the outside, so I couldn't afford teflon.

[22350]

Hey Shane.

Check into a product called CPVC. It has a temp rating of 250f

[Roland Jacques]

I just spent a lot of time, looking into this and comparing.

I was going to go with HDPE, as the price was the best. Even though the melting point is 260f, the operating temperature is only 180f.

Nylon has a melting point of 420f and an operating temp of 200f. 260f, if you get nylon 901.

You could use teflon, 500f, for the gaskets. Just like H2O does and then use polycarbonate for the end caps.

that would probably be good for this design.

my design has a complicated plenum, on the outside, so I couldn't afford teflon.

I have never seen a price for nylon sheets, sounds pricey. Where did you find it?

HDPE's "operating" temperature of 180f is still a good bit higher than PVC or polycarbonate. I dont see many folks want to drive the cell over the 120sF so ...


PS. CPVC Sheets $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[22350]

I have never seen a price for nylon sheets, sounds pricey. Where did you find it?

HDPE's "operating" temperature of 180f is still a good bit higher than PVC or polycarbonate. I dont see many folks want to drive the cell over the 120sF so ...


PS. CPVC Sheets $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I have to back peddle on the nylon. Just got my sheet material in and it is too hard. Will not work for the gaskets.

I don't think the CPVC will either.

I am going to get this figured out on monday and I will post the result.

P