HHO Gen overunity ?

[sheri]

ANyone seen the hybridtech plans ? They are free.

http://pesn.com/2009/11/13/9501586_HybridTech-Energy_releases_water-fuel_generator_plans/

here is a vid of the unit producing 1 litre in 12 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI1KXMepTuA

they claim to be running a generator on pure hho with it powering the hho system and have power left over.


Sheri

[sheri]

well the video clearly shows 1L in 12 seconds.

Sheri

[Philldpapill]

The video clearly shows a bottle with a hose in it, with a gas coming up through it... It only seems logical that if someone makes outstanding claims, they would make their video as transparent as possible. Instead, they show a couple of guys with a hose(no generator to be found).

I'm HIGHLY skeptical if you can't tell...

[RustyLugNut]

Claims of over unity are usually the result of bad calculations, poor assumptions and gross over site. Throw in blind faith to cloud issues and you have a good mix to create an over unity machine.

I have personally inspected three OU devices and in all three situations, basic laws of nature still functioned. But miss-interpretation of results and the tendency to overlook basic points caused a lot of excited people a lot of disappointment later.

One inventor was canvassing a close friend for investors. He had a car that ran on one 12v starter battery and a large flywheel/generator assembly in the trunk. The car had surprising performance and range for a single battery. The inventor claimed OU! I looked at the system at the request of my friend and I came to the conclusion it was like a electric vehicle with a capacitive storage system. Very clever and efficient and certainly worth pursuing but not OU. The inventor called me close minded. I said to run it until it died. They got to about 80 miles before it stopped (still a tremendous accomplishment!) at which point the inventor changed his story a bit to say the system needed a bit more work to iron out "Bugs".

Another tinkerer called me from the Los Angeles county area and excitedly told me about his HHO set up running his 67 Valiant at idle with NO GASOLINE being used. Would I be willing to come over and look at his system ( he had actually purchased 24 individual cells from me so I felt an obligation). The car was old and smoked and sputtered when started. But once the battery of electrolysis cells got going, the idle smoothed and the engine accelerated to about 1200 rpm. The owner pulled off the fuel line to the carb after clamping it off. The car ran for about another 30 seconds then gradually slowed down to 800 rpm. And, it continued running and running for about 30 minutes while we talked and I poked around baffled by what was going on. There was nothing powering this car but the 24 electrolysis cells in the back seat! After a bit more time had passed, the owner shut the car off and said he had to add more lubricating oil to the engine as the car used the stuff like "Dean Martin drinking martinis". Bingo! I asked what weight of oil was he using and how much did he use. He was using standard 30w at the rate of almost 2 quarts every hundred miles. He said it really didn't matter as the HHO cleaned up the smoke and added power. I had him start up the car again and get it running on HHO only. I went to my truck and got out a bottle of the "No Smoke" oil additive I used in my old work truck. Once he had the Valiant running, we poured the engine oil additive into the crank case (messy deal) and sat back. Within a couple of minutes the engine started slowing down from 800 rpm. It was still running fine at a low 500 rpm when it finally coughed and died. I explained to the owner how his car was running on both HHO and engine blow by. He refused to believe my assessment and said he would continue with his work. "I'm gonna rebuild the engine first, so I can have a good baseline", he said. So that's what he did, and before he passed away a few years later, he called back to tell me I was right.

The third situation was most applicable to our forum. My neighbor had built an electro-cell-generator and asked me to look over it to see if he was missing something because it would put out "tons off HHO" for a few minutes and then it dies off to almost nothing. After looking at his system the problem became evident right away. He was using concentric pipes as his electrodes. The pipes were made of heavy galvanized steel! He said that was the only stuff that made the "tons of HHO". Of course many of this forums readers already know that zinc easily reacts to form zinc oxide and releases copious amounts of hydrogen - until there is no more zinc. Then the reaction stops.

These are just simple examples of how even the most "educated" person can be fooled into an OU claim. That is why the field of science and engineering has peer review. It helps to have people with multi-disciplined backgrounds looking over the situation to help asses and understand.

This company's claim of OU will have to withstand the peer reviews of not just those in the science and engineering fields, but the "peer review" of the open market. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on these guys.

Out,
RustyLugNut

[H2OPWR]

well the video clearly shows 1L in 12 seconds.

Sheri

Sheri, All that video shows is that those guys can dump a bottle of water into a tank in 12 seconds. I have been doing this a long time. As Shane said they would be lucky if that is 1 LPM.

Larry

[Helz_McFugly]

well the video clearly shows 1L in 12 seconds.

Sheri
theres alot of back pressure in that hose before they flop it over in that bucket. Hell I could do the same thing with mine and have it show double OU if I did it that way. maybe I could sell more of my albums that way :p

this is a post from www.nicksrealm.com

On Nov. 24, 2009, New Energy Congress member, Francis Giroux wrote: Only about 80% Efficient

Inaccurate Water Displacement Test of HHO Production using Hybrid Tech Energy’s Video

Water displacement is a good way to measure HHO gas production if it is done correctly. First I will give simple instructions for a water displacement measurement setup and then I will point out the obvious errors of the setup in the video claiming 200% efficiency in their HHO cell.
Simple instructions I usually give to an experimenter for water displacement measurement of gas production are as follows.

Take a two liter bottle full of water and turn it upside down in a bucket of water without spilling out any water (a one liter bottle will work just as well).

Take your gas hose from your electrolyzer and run it down into the bucket and up into the upside down bottle. Then turn on your electrolyzer and time how long it takes to empty the bottle of water by replacing it with gas.

More precise instructions would include efforts to keep the end of the hose and the open end of the bottle as close to the water surface in the bucket as possible and a measurement of the atmospheric pressure in the room, as well as voltage and amperage measurements on the electrolyzer.
Before we look carefully at their protocol let me say that being very familiar with the bubbling of gas out of a hose at two liters per minute makes it easy for me to see that the gas production was very similar to that of our electrolyzer running at that current.

Now let’s look at the apparatus in the video to see what varies from this protocol. First of all the gas hose is coming from a reservoir/foam separator that is half full of foam and the container appears to be 2-5 gallons. This would be meaningless if the above instructions were followed but they are not. The instructions above would not be as critical if the gas hose was coming directly from an electrolyzer with virtually no reservoir of gas space inside.

Now let’s look at how the protocol varies from my instructions. Before they start their timer (watch) they have the gas hose bubbling into the bottom of a one liter bottle full of water. Without exact measurement of the height of that bottle I will have to guess that the one liter bottle is 9 inches tall and the hose is inserted 9 inches below the water level. So what? The pressure on the end of that hose is 9 inches of water column, or roughly 0.375 psi. This would not matter so much if the gas hose came from an electrolyzer with virtually no gas reservoir inside, but here we have upwards to 2 and a half gallons or ten liters of compressed gas in the reservoir at 0.375 psi or 9” water column or 0.025 Atmospheres.

Now when the clock is started the bottle is inverted into the bucket of water and the hose is under a vacuum roughly equivalent to the pressure it had before because the water in the bottle is now pulling down and causing a vacuum at the end of the gas hose. During the timing of the test the vacuum dissipates as the water level inside the bottle goes down. However the equivalent total vacuum during the test will be roughly half the maximum vacuum of 0.025 Atmospheres. So the differential effective pressure difference before and during the test will be 0.025 + ½(0.025) = 0.0375 atmospheres during the test.

Using the gas law PV/T=PV/T we can figure out the amount of gas that went into the bottle coming from the reservoir and NOT from the electrolyzer. The gas hose was certainly big enough to dissipate any pressure in 12 seconds so we can say with assurance that the ending pressure was 1 atmosphere. The effective beginning pressure was 1.0375 atmospheres. The volume before was ten liters inside the reservoir. The volume after was ten liters inside the reservoir and X liters inside the test bottle. That is what we are trying to figure out. Temperature before and after were the same. So we can ignore temperature and our equation becomes 1.0375 x 10 = 1.000 x (10+X) Solving this equation for x we get X=0.375 liters of gas transferred from the reservoir into the bottle during the test that was not produced by the electrolyzer.

Other inaccuracies in their protocol was the turning of the bottle upside down into the bucket and how much water spilled out during this operation, and lastly the voltage that was used by the electrolyzer. Using a twelve volt battery charger is using at least 14.2 volts as would be using the alternator of a car. So figuring out electrolyzer efficiency with the proper voltage, which could have easily been measured with a voltmeter during the test, is essential. Also the video showed no bubble of HHO gas coming out the neck of the bottle before the stop watch was stopped and by watching the water level going down at the end of the test (which was very obviously slower than at the beginning of the test (when there was both vacuum inside the bottle and pressure on the gas inside the hose caused by the pressure in the reservoir). The video also didn’t show the stop watch being started (the watch and finger were off the screen). I timed the test myself while watching the video at 15 seconds.

I estimate that the inverting operation lost one ounce of water or 0.03125 liters. The pressure/vacuum caused 0.375 liters to come from the reservoir. That leaves 0.59375 liters of gas produced by the electrolyzer with 14.2 volts and 23.6 amps (assuming their ammeter was accurate) in 15 seconds. All these errors combined bring their 200% efficient electrolyzer to an efficiency of only 80% which is typical for a six cell unit running at 14 volts, which is what our Hydrogen Boost unit is.

All this calculating only confirms my estimate of the amount of gas coming out the end of the gas hose when they had it in the bottle of water.

Sorry for the dashed hopes but this is just another example of poor measurement

[sheri]

As far as I can see nothing has been proved for disproved.

The cell is using a new type of construction and physics, so unlike the many of the nay sayers on this thread I'm going to keep an open mind.

Until one of you has built one then your opinion doesn't really mean anything.

Sheri

[b4igo]

As far as I can see nothing has been proved for disproved.

The cell is using a new type of construction and physics, so unlike the many of the nay sayers on this thread I'm going to keep an open mind.

Until one of you has built one then your opinion doesn't really mean anything.

Sheri

Wow were do i begin chopping this one up? The construction and the physics are NOT new. A few of us have tried and are still trying different designs. The old pipes as a wet cell, (Zzzzzz sry fell asleep jk hate wet designs) has currant leakage all over it,

no electrolyte???? ok it can be done but "spacing between the anode
and cathode is only 1/32” ". 5lpm worth of gas with that spacing would leave less room for water to make more HHO." Section dividers are .010 Poly styrene" will also restrict it flow.

The vid tells us info but shows next to nothing. I can make a vid that shows more info and produce better results, but it would all be fictional.

can and will that item produce hho? yes. With all the testing in done, you(sheri) or there info has not shown me any ground breaking info to support there claims.

Prove me wrong Sheri. I wish you will. Till then i will continue on me quest forward not back.

[cabrera]

Hmmm, Phil I'm surprised you haven't come in on this...
We here on the HHO forum do things by hypothesis, theory & experimentation
Thus:

Until one of you has built one then your opinion doesn't really mean anything.

Observations:
#1 Why should we have to build it to disprove your beliefs? Did you build it?
#2 New member, 3 posts, all under the same and only thread.
#3 Member strongly endorses this new technology without any convincing argument.

Conclusions:
#1 Member is actually product owner trying to gain recognition
#2 Member is actually associated with product owner
#3 Member want others to build system at our expense before they spend their own time & resources. hence using forum members. (we've seen this ploy before.)

I'll leave the final determination to the forum members.

[Roland Jacques]

ANyone seen the hybridtech plans ? They are free.

http://pesn.com/2009/11/13/9501586_HybridTech-Energy_releases_water-fuel_generator_plans/

here is a vid of the unit producing 1 litre in 12 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI1KXMepTuA

they claim to be running a generator on pure hho with it powering the hho system and have power left over.


Sheri


That cell may be the best cell ever, but the test in the video is horrible.

The test in that video is even worst than Helz post says, the pressure difference is closer to 18" of water not 9". It starts out with a positive "back" pressure of about 9" then he turns it over to a negative pressure of 9". The differential pressure is 18". Like mentioned before if there was not a tank full of Gases connected to it that would have only had a minimum effect on the results. But when they connect to another tank full of gases, the Gas Laws would show the first second or two is gas equalization of gases not production of gases.

Second thing is timing, IMO they need to use bigger bottles to get an accurate test. (this goes for most of us testing high output cells) When using a 1 litter bottle to measure 4-5 LPM the plus or minus tolerances could be 5 -15%. If they used a used a 2 litter bottle instead the plus or minus tolerances would have been half that 2.5 -7.5%, and 4 litter bottle, half that 1-3%, and so on. IMO to get accurate test your bottle should take 1 minute to fill.

If it truly a great cell it is worth doing the test correctly. Hopefully they will do the test over again the right way. FWIW, There is a independent testing group that will test it 99.999% accurately. I think it cost $400.

Is it a highly efficient cell? maybe, really we dont know.


they claim to be running a generator on pure hho with it powering the hho system and have power left over.


Sheri

Now this I would like to see! This would be proof IMO.

[Helz_McFugly]

Originally Posted by sheri
they claim to be running a generator on pure hho with it powering the hho system and have power left over.
but they, like a little jamacan man i know of, just claim it. They dont prove it.

[Philldpapill]

I don't get this... So many "Over Unity" people talk about alllll this power left over, then in the same sentence talk about their high efficiency. If your machine produces MORE power than it consumes, who the heck cares about efficiency??? Just chain a bunch of those things together and get a TON of energy out!

These same people think small scale. They talk about their device improving the lives of every day people. I'm sure it would, but the implications(which they either fail to realize, or know that no one will take them seriously once they make the next logical step) are enormous. If you have a machine that produces more energy than it consumes, you have single handedly just solved the worlds energy needs, global warming, world hunger, and about 100 other things.

But no... These guys keep it in their garage and invite a friend or two over to dink around with it. I think I should be on blood pressure medication and I'm only 25... This crap gets me so worked up. :D

[sheri]

I didn't mean to come over as so arguementative, apologies for that.

I'm allways very sceptical about perpetual motion devices but this does seem to have merits. Also the phd designer obviously has his reputation on the line as well.

I'm going to build the unit once I get the materials purely out of interest. I have not built any hho device before hence stumbling on this forum trying to educate myself on the subject.

Is anyone else planning on trying the build ?

Sheri

[b4igo]

I didn't mean to come over as so arguementative, apologies for that.

I'm allways very sceptical about perpetual motion devices but this does seem to have merits. Also the phd designer obviously has his reputation on the line as well.

I'm going to build the unit once I get the materials purely out of interest. I have not built any hho device before hence stumbling on this forum trying to educate myself on the subject.

Is anyone else planning on trying the build ?

Sheri

keep us informed of your test results. good luck with your build:)

[Helz_McFugly]

I didn't mean to come over as so arguementative, apologies for that.

I'm allways very sceptical about perpetual motion devices but this does seem to have merits. Also the phd designer obviously has his reputation on the line as well.

I'm going to build the unit once I get the materials purely out of interest. I have not built any hho device before hence stumbling on this forum trying to educate myself on the subject.

Is anyone else planning on trying the build ?

Sheri
I can guarantee disapointment. Ill put a paycheck on it. :p

can you invision the pipes cut open and opened flat? then lay them beside each other with this .010 gap. your talking about a 1"x16" wet e-lyzer with a configuration of +- x 27. thats it. but hey, Good luck.

[sheri]

I think you are missing the principle behind the OU claim from this build. What Dr Eaton has found the top part of the tube is producing much much more hho therby giving the much higher efficiency.

Simply making a plate device is complety different physics.

Sheri

[Helz_McFugly]

My point exactly Shane. ya cant pass an eletron through gas to produce more gas. The cell would have to be completely flooded and His cell is not completely flooded at the top , unless his is magic like The Smacks e-lyzers, so theres no way he can be producing much much more gas at the top. all he has at the top is alot of gas and thats whats at the top of any drycell or "tube cell" like his Or any wet cell with only the top and bottom open for that matter. the taller it is the less flooded it is farther up you go, and with that small of a gap makes it even worse.
If you think OU is being achieved with 27 tube cells like his, then it can be done with 1 or 1000 tubes. If you want to try his cell, why make 27 tubes like he did when you can scale down and get the same results with 1. that will save you ALOT of waisted time.

One other thing to look at in his video is the output of the gas in the bucket and the bottle. Ive been doing this a long time and I know what 500 mililiters per minute looks like and i know what 5000 even 20000 mililiters looks like. and that looked like about 500 to 600 mililiters. AND another thing to notice, they always cut video right as the gas reaches the bottom of the bottle when doing the test, they never show it bubbling out of the bottom. there are so many holes in this guys claims its pitiful that anyone woud even entertain the idea that its a solid claim.

[Helz_McFugly]

yea Im going to get them after work today. I heard leaving your nickel plates in a postal environment for 24 hours or more will give it a negitive ionic charge from all the negativity that the employees emit. :p

[RustyLugNut]

and shot peppermint cream coffee out my nose!

[Roland Jacques]

I Like this interview with this guy "Doc" i assume this is Dr. Steven Eaton the nuclear physicist.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Javadavida#p/u/2/Uu5SvJBfrWY

FWIW. Here is a OU cell you can buy for $180. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/The-Most-Efficient-Hydrogen-HHO-Generator-On-The-Market_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a553b7680QQitem Z250538063488QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fA ccessories
What a deal. Like the one mention here, this guy's "Darol" also claims 17. MMW. equaling about 200% OU.
He has been making this 17+ MMW claim for almost a year now. (actually he first started saying his was 24MMW confirm by a university). He has sold quiet a few of them. Reality, I tested 2 of them, both less then 4 MMW. But this guy still thinks he,s numbers are right.:rolleyes:

I agree with another guy here. Just by judging the bubbles coming out the hose I'd estimate 0.5- 1.0 LPM production. the real numbers are closer to 2-4 MMW. These guys know they made a mistake measuring and are afraid to admit it, or worst.

[Helz_McFugly]

Its Over Unity Yall. WOO HOO http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0016.gif
Polar charge, yea, theres 1 liter of gas in every bubble, sinse youre here you should buy my album, look out Stan Myers, Im alivehttp://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0012.gif the gap is 010 per side, HEY, how many sides does a circle have again bubba? I dont know jsut stick some fishin line in there.
buy my album for x-mass yall, its Over Unity. weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0047.gif
get me another beer.

[sheri]

I hear what you are saying, but why would Dr Eaton and HybridTech Energy risk their professional integrity for no reason ?

Is there some scam / financial angle I am missing ?

Sheri

[Helz_McFugly]

Anyone could make a website like that, they want to look profesional. ask to see HybridTech Energys facility. Im sure its in some dudes garage. I know quite a few people including myself who could build a way more efficient HHO system then they can.
so Why risk their their professional integrity? because their professional integrity is a fasad made up by them.
Their book has a really nice shiney cover with to good to be true claims.
they are no different then safehho.com
If their stuff worked as they say it does dont ya think it would have made it into the spot light of our (the HHO) community?

[Helz_McFugly]

oh and it seems Dr Eaton is more into music and side projects then he is his career.

[Roland Jacques]

I agree with Helz

But it does not necessarily have to be a scam. Some folks dont understand the physics of fluid Dynamics and Gas laws. Tons of folks make mistakes testing things. Their a lot of ways to mess up your test. I tested 4 cheap volt meters, they all had different readings for the same battery, 3 volts difference between them.

Like mentioned before the test in the video was done all wrong. Most inexperienced folks would not catch the mistakes they made. Even if the cell in that test was turned off (not producing any gas at all) and you did what they did, turning the liter bottle upside down like that, you'd still would have practically filled the liter bottle with air, coming from the top of their reservoir due to the siphon effect and the gases expanding. The positive to negative back pressure they did.

Just like the guy selling the inverted Tee cells. He whats to measure his result his way. Under a negative pressure with a hot steam producing cell. then claim his is 3 times better than everyone else.

I personally believe they are scamers because to say they are running a generator with power left over. Kind of hard to make a mistake doing that. And that Doctor guy, come on, his reputation, :rolleyes: I'M ALIVE! Yeah OK

[Helz_McFugly]

and Sheri, I mean no disrespect what so ever twards you in anything I have said so please dont take it the wrong way. I just dont like watching the scammers/misinformed take advantage of people and their money and making the HHO community look bad. you are in the right place to ask about the integrity of anyone or any company selling HHO equipment.

[sheri]

Can I ask, ignoring the YouTube video which I agree doesn't prove anything one way or the other, is it the physics of the build you take issue with?

You all seem pretty sure it can't do what it says, as I am new to this could you point me to where this has been tried and documented.

Thanks

Sheri

[Helz_McFugly]

not even unity has been proven and documented with the electolosys of water.
I think the closest thing that came to it was Stan Myers but still only claims and no proof.

[Philldpapill]

Sheri, go to wikipedia and search "Conservation of Energy". That law is one of the most fundamental laws of physics that has never come close to being broken. THAT is what this whole debate boils down to... Can you create a net energy gain?

Modern physics says no... BUT you can turn matter into energy, and convert energy from one form to another. However, you cannot just produce it from nothing. That is exactly what this sort of OU stuff is saying - that they are doing nothing, but putting X energy in, and getting 2X(or more!) energy out. That just isn't part of our reality... Maybe in an alternate universe with different rules, but not in this one.

BTW, if that sounds sarcastic, I'm not trying to be at all... There are some really strange/funky theories out there about the laws of physics in mirror-verses.

[Philldpapill]

I've been watching all of these "Dr. Steve Eaton's" videos on youtube. What is this guy a doctor of? Is that just a nickname? I can CALL myself a doctor, but that doesn't mean I have a Ph.D. from any kind of school. It really erks me when people make claims like these in order to gain credability... The only thing is, anyone with REAL education(degree or self taught) can see right through the BS and know the guy is lying. How is that for irony...

[Roland Jacques]

Can I ask, ignoring the YouTube video which I agree doesn't prove anything one way or the other, I would not dismiss what shown in the video as completely inconclusive.
If we assume just one common thing about that video, then that test can be seen as conclusive. That one assumption would be that they did show us their best test results in the video.
If so, I do think the video does prove beyond a doubt that their number are wrong by at least 60%. I'm no expert on physics or ... The things I don't know would fill library's. But testing of this type would not be in there.

In this case I based my opinion 98% on the video, and 1% on the history of be de-bunked OU claims, and 1% on the fact i dont really see anything new at work here.

[sheri]

I'm still not getting the impression that this particular build physics has not been tried.

I guess it boils down to X design - requires Y amps to produce Z litres per min of hho where Y is as small as possible resulting in Z being as large as possible.

Anyone have a table to hand or care to comment on their personal builds and experiences ?

Jeff at Hybridtech has said (on the yahoo group) he is in talks with a propane generator manufacturer who wants a 100lpm cell.

Sheri

[sheri]

Sheri,

Electrolysis is very simple.... pass electricity from 1 metal plate, through electrolyte, to another plate. Yes some cells are more efficient then others. The 2 main reasons.... current leakage (or lack there of), and proper voltage per plate gap. End of story!

Shane

Well the Dr Eaton design is different in as much as his 'breakthrough' is that he is saying the 'top of the tubes' are producing a lot of hho for very little current due to the physics of the tubes being 1 inside the other providing a small tolerance.

Quite different from the run of the mill bricks you see everywhere on ebay which i think we can all agree are useless.

[Helz_McFugly]

the bricks are the best design so far, the ones on ebay are configured wrong so the put out massive amounts of gas, its just not all HHO. its mostly steam and expanded gas. but they claim it as all HHO. they are taking advantage of the unknowning buyer, and whats even worse is some of the sellers may not even know they are doing it. his design is no different, its actually called a joe cell and was put off about a year ago as inefficient compaired to a flat plate dry electolyzer. look up a joe cell, youll see it. he just revamped it a bit, but its the same shizz, different month.

quote from Doc's youtube video "Doc now has a certificate from CSU with test results on this cell at over unity!"
yet he wont show it or tell who certified it. maybe the janitor?

and then theres true logic.

IM2L844 said to Doc
"My calculations show that actual unity would be achieved with an energy in to production ratio of 0.215 Joules per Milliliter or about 290 MMW. Even if your results were accurate, no credible university would have certified that as over unity. Your reported results are lightyears from unity. Current Efficiency, sometimes called Charge Yield or Faraday Efficiency is another matter. Anyone with a real Ph.D. in Physics would have already known this and made it perfectly clear"


No responce from Doc!!!!!!!!!!

[Helz_McFugly]

LOL, Dr Jackson. does it have the floating eye above it like in your autoCAD design?

[Roland Jacques]

Dr Jackson, My OU Resonating Hot Ball Oscillating Cell , can easily put out more HHO then your Pharaoh cell With less power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06iCfowinUM

You can contribute to Hot Ball International In care of Professor Roland

[sheri]

Update from hybridtech:

For instance, I am building a 20" cell...which will use .25 grams of NaOH per gallon of distilled water, and will produce over 15 LPM.* The cool thing is, by the computer model Dr. Eaton used, is says that our amperage will not increase in a linear fashion, but actually only increase by 40% or so, even though the production is increased by 3 fold.

*This would mean 15 LPM at under 35 amps!* Remember, these cells are NOT DRY CELLS and do not follow the same rules...for instance, 3 x's surface area, doesn't mean 3 x's production and 3 x's amperage.* Technically, with this cell design, 3x's surface area means 3 x's production and 40% more amperage, not 300%.*

[b1jetmech]

Sheri,

Would this be a Boy Boyce design Cell? Is it utilizing 110V AC to get those numbers? If so yeah, those numbers are achievable but with DC, no.

My cell has 2000 sq in of active area and it still has the same ratio of Amps/LPM of 10-14amps. I can take it to high output only because there is so much plate area at the 10-14 amps per liter output.

[Roland Jacques]

Putting the video aside. It would be nice if his cell could do what they claim.

IF he measured the right way. The thing i would want to make sure of is how much of his production that he is measuring is steam? You have many tubes with tight tolerances that even have a nylon string to slow flow down even more. Then you have 4.3 volts going across them. Seems that this could be a great steam producer.

The other guys who claims 17 MMW, he measures his output under a vacuum. What happens to water at high temp under a vacuum? It boils and steams more at a lower temp. The same cell i measured at 4 MMW.


b1jetmech

I'd be interested to see where a Boy Boyce design Cell utilizing 110V AC to got those numbers.
The best i ever heard of was 12 MMW and that was just word of mouth.

[Helz_McFugly]

Sheri, I think you are going to have to build one to truely understand. If you have faith in this Doc guy, you should replicate his design.
When the inverted T cell came about and the designer was claiming OU with it, ZFF built one and found that it didnt even get close to OU. the only way to get proof is to replicate. you cant take anyones word in this technology unless they show solid proof and I wouldnt call what we've all seen from him even remotely close to being solid proof. Im willing to bet the design of his, with the current he stated, is only good for about 700 mililiters per minute at best. and thats even with the steam.

[sheri]

I will build one, havinng to make a PWM first to power it. Also need to find someone to weld the pipes, not an easy build.

Here is the latest from the doc.

CONCEPT OF THE EATON FUEL CELL

The Eaton Cell is made up of .375” O.D. ss tubes as electrodes inserted into .040” wall .50” O.D. ss tubes used as cathodes with .011” non conductive spacers attached to electrode to prevent contact between the two. This allows for up to .023 variance or deformities in the tubes.

When submersed vertically in H2O and charged accordingly the H2O is charged by the electricity traversing between the electrode and cathode. As the charge builds in the H2O the hydrogen particles become excited and begin to expand and break away from the oxygen particles thus dissolving the water molecules into a gaseous state of two particles of hydrogen and one particle of oxygen. The hydrogen particles being the lightest immediately go up towards the top of the tubes followed by the oxygen particles which are considerably heavier than hydrogen but at this point not nearly as dense as the H2O molecules surrounding them.

As these particles rise it effects the H2O in two pertinent ways. Firstly the kinetic motion of the vertically moving particles tends to transfer to the H2O molecules causing them to rise as well although not nearly as fast. Secondly after having lost adjacent molecules the specific gravity of the H2O is slightly reduced.
As the specific gravity (or density) of the water is reduced, again two pertinent anomaly are incurred. Firstly

being slightly less gravity it compounds the vertical traverse rate already established by the kinetically transferred motion of the individual particles as it rises up above its heavier (denser) counterparts. Secondly being less dense (lower specific gravity) it takes slightly less electricity to break up its molecules.

Our test cell was set up in such a manner that the water was drawn into the bottom of the electrolyzer from the bubbler/reservoir by its passive circulation at the rate of over a gallon a minute with no mechanical assistance.

Needless to say this effect is compounded the farther up the cavity between the tubes the H2O rises to a point that the amount of charge needed to sustain the reaction can only be measured in Pico watts just prior to the event horizon of a self sustained reaction.

At this point it is important to inform all that are concerned that in order to keep within safe perimeters in our testing we didn’t go for broke on the first round. We started our tests first with clusters of 5.5” electrolyzing tubes using those results we went to 15.5” chambers and then to 16” chambers at which time we were drawing 8 amps @ 12 v dc using distilled water with no electrolyte. After adding 1 gram of KOH per gallon we had to limit the amperage to under 25 amps. To keep it in check.

We are continuing further testing and developing and are convinced that very soon we will have a 5 LPM unit that will function equally efficiently on 15 or less amps on de-ionized water with little to no electrolyte.

Dr. Steve Eaton

[sheri]

here is the vid

http://www.youtube.com/user/Javadavida#p/u/0/NvzdHhYuSNU

[b1jetmech]

b1jetmech

I'd be interested to see where a Boy Boyce design Cell utilizing 110V AC to got those numbers.
The best i ever heard of was 12 MMW and that was just word of mouth.

I'm not using MMW as a measurement of the Boyce design. I've seen it produce 10 liters a minute at 110V @ 7 amps from the 61 plate. Run 220V with twice the plates will achieve higher production.

[Helz_McFugly]

Dr. Jackson, youre going to need to Rx yourself some anti anxiety meds. :p
where were you when Richard was in here making 300mpg gain claims? and storing HHO at 20psi in his car. you missed a real whopper. you can always go read the 90 pages of crap if you just want to toss out a couple hours of your life.

Doc Fug.

[sheri]

Go to 5:52 sec in that video and look at the bubble output. Now compare that to any other video on youtube. There is no way in hell that is 5lpm!!! if you are too stupid to see that..... waste your money!

Tired of wasting my time........

You are saying they are going to all that trouble to fake the video ?

What in the video leads you to think it is faked ?

Sheri

[lhazleton]

Helz, time to put up your BS meter for the Eaton Cell again, buddy.

[Roland Jacques]

You are saying they are going to all that trouble to fake the video ?

What in the video leads you to think it is faked ?

Sheri

You dont even have to understand fluid dynamics, or Gas laws, all you have to be able to understand are bubbles. Look at (5:15) - (5:55-5:57) http://www.youtube.com/user/Javadavida#p/u/0/NvzdHhYuSNU
If you have any experience testing, those frames are more than conclusive.
It proves the production is far less than 2LPM probably less than 1 lpm.

If you really dont see All the problems with those video tests, you really should build one yourself then you will understand.

[Helz_McFugly]

You are saying they are going to all that trouble to fake the video ?

What in the video leads you to think it is faked ?

Sheri
I dont know about anyone else but my answer is:
everything.
why go through all the trouble? do you know how hard it is to sell a CD now a days? pretty hard. why not claim youve solved the worlds energy crisis and through in that you have a CD dropping just in time for x-mass. HAR!
Wait a minute, I have a CD for sale. you should all buy one because I havent achieved OU yet and the more CD's we sell the more $ I can invest in designing and testing a cell that gets OU www.therazorbladedollhouse.com :p

[Philldpapill]

This is total BS... Why does Shane get the title of Doctor??? I wanna be called Doctor. I mean, if Dr. Eaton can post ridiculous videos of jibberish and possibly get on here posing as a user with a female name, I guess I can, too......

Hence forth, and forever more, I shall be referred to as Dr. Felipe McCoco. Any other designations will result in me posting absurd videos and putting forth theories that have absolutely no merit other than it sounding cool in my head and might possibly make me money.

Helz, since Shane and I are now have our doctorates, I am bestowing an honorary degree upon you. Congrats, Dr. McFugly!

[Philldpapill]

No, but seriously - I have a gut feeling that this thread is slowly turning into an other "Hello All (Please Read!!!)" novel. Anyone want to squash this garbage before page 90?

[sheri]

Wow people are getting very emotional over a hho unit!!

I originally found this forum while researching hho as I was pretty sure it was a scam. After reading a LOT of websites I can see there is milage in hho (excuse the pun).

With regard to subject of this thread, the new type of hho cell, I have still not seen one of the same design so how and why do a few of you seem so luddite towards it? I could understand if you had built one and documented it's failure.


With regard to the video, I'll ask again which part are you saying is faked? Just saying 'the bubbles don't look good' really doesn't mean anything at all.

A big issue when building this at home is it needs quite specialized materials and equipment. E.g tig welder, very specific stainless tube, expensive bench psu etc. I fully intend to build one but sourcing the above is expensive

Really waiting for someone who ready has all this kit to replicate so we can finally have some independant verification.

Cheers

Sheri

[Philldpapill]

Just because this design "looks" different, doesn't mean it's anything new. So many people look at an hho cell and think "uhh that looks just like such and such" or "WHOA! I've never seen anything like that before! That's revolutionary!"(the second being almost a direct quote from a Dr. Eaton video).

What the cell looks like, makes zero difference. You need to understand how it works. Once you understand the concept behind it, you will understand why OU is crap, and why Dr. Eaton's cell is nothing more than parallel surfaces with a(excessively) small gap between the surfaces. This is nothing new, but "some" people think it is because a new silly design.

As for the "fake", that's one thing - the bubbles. Judging by the size of the bubbles, and the number of bubbles per second, yes, it looks fake. I suspect that when he flips the bottle upside down, the water pressure is sucking air in through the hose, allowing the water to fall the way it did. This is just a visual analysis, but the bubble rate doesn't even seem to jive with how fast the water falls. It seems that the fall rate of the water is a little faster than it should be. Hence why people are saying that the bubbles only look like they are 1lpm, yet he claims 5lpm

THAT is only one reason why it looks fake. Secondly, they don't give any kind of detailed view of the setup. The whole thing just smells like he's setting the stage for a scam - and believe me, people in this community have seen A LOT of scams come and go.


EDIT: I forgot to address the last part of your post... Sheri, this is the thing... You don't NEED to replicate his setup once you understand the principles at work. It's like you(and others) want to jump off a bridge because some other guy said you would fly - even though physics says you won't. BUT, this guy seems very convincing so you disregard hundreds of years of data to the contrary, and jump anyway... However, in this case, Darwinism won't rule, only capitalism and scam artists...

[Helz_McFugly]

thank you for the PHD Dr. Phill.
Im building a tower e-lyzer. 30" tall 2" wide. thats the surface area. Ive started a thread over on the hho underground.

[sheri]

Seems doc eaton isn't the only one using tubes. You guys read http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Ravi%20Cell.pdf

this guys replication of the meyer unit looks very similar to the eaton unit with the exception of the electronics, it claims to use tiny amounts of amps.

So what's the deal with these tube cells, apart from being very technically demanding to build - why no replications ?

I'm going to have to learn tig welding over Christmas!

Sheri

[Philldpapill]

Sheri, just because the cell LOOKS very different from the typical HHO dry cells, the method of operation is nothing new. You have (fairly) electrically isolated surfaces with an electrolyte in between. There's nothing new to this design. If the guy would just claim 98% efficiency, then this would probably get 10 times the amount of interest as it gets now... Many people understand why OU is silly, so they turn away. They aren't without reason, however...

[Pidgy]

You are saying they are going to all that trouble to fake the video ?

What in the video leads you to think it is faked ?

Sheri

Hi Sheri,

The problem with the video is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

He/you claim to be defying the laws of physics, which is fine by me, but a video that doesn't show how anything was done, how anything is even hooked up, doesn't meet any standard of evidence, much less one to support claims of a miracle.

And that is the claim by the way. He/you are claiming to have raised the dead, or grown a leg back after it was removed. That's what a miracle is, an event that goes against everything we know about the universe.

And your position is... "sure why not? why don't you believe? prove it's wrong..."
Please child... show me the leg.

You leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[Roland Jacques]

Seems doc eaton isn't the only one using tubes. You guys read http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Ravi%20Cell.pdf
this guys replication of the meyer unit looks very similar to the eaton unit with the exception of the electronics, it claims to use tiny amounts of amps.
Like we mentioned before, nothing truly new with that cell.



So what's the deal with these tube cells, apart from being very technically demanding to build - why no replications ?
I think it safe to say that thousands of tubes cells have been made and tested and used for HHO. About 2 years ago they were fairly popular and wet cell were the rage.

Actually they can be very easy to build. You dont have to do any welding at all. you could simply connect them with a more conductive copper wires.



I'm going to have to learn tig welding over Christmas!

LOL

[Roland Jacques]

Since you dont seem to believe some of us. You can cheaply duplicate that test, and find the problems with the test yourself. All you need is large reservoir tank (2 gallons), hose, one litter bottle, bucket, and a $10 aquarium air pump. (much cheaper than tig welder, SS tubes...)

First test the air pump the correct way to determine the actual LPM output.

Then use the reservoir and do the test exactly like in the video. then you will understand gas laws effect. Not to mention the plastic tank expanding and contracting do to the pressures changes.

You should be able to do this test under $25 in about 1 hour, or spend big $$$ and many hours, to come to the same conclusion.

The larger the reservoir, the larger the tubing, the smaller the bottle and the softer the reservoir tank (warmer the plastic) the bigger the discrepancy you'll find.

[Helz_McFugly]

here ya go sheri. almost pre made like you want them.
http://www.digitalsweetwater.com/gen-testing.html

[Philldpapill]

Wow, Helz... That site is like the walmart of HHO and penis enlargement. I never knew I could pick up a PWM and penis enlargement pills all on one site! I can't ever thank you enough!

[Helz_McFugly]

LOL. just trying to help. :p