Too much heat/not enough production

[Griz64]

Hi guys-new guy here-been lurking for a little while-very impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum. I really need your help on this issue please. First 2 cells spaced @ 1/16" & 3/4 teaspoons of KOH
first cell was -nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn- Production good-too much heat(80-220f in 2 hours time) 1.5-1.75 liters per min
Second cell was -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- good production-to hot (80-200f in 2 hours) 1.5-1.75 liters per min
Next cells are spaced @ 1/8" & 3/4 teaspoons of KOH
Third cell was -nnnnn+nnnnn- temp maxed @ 140f & production very low less than .5 liters per min
Forth cell was -nnnn+nnnn- temp maxed at 150 & production low less than .5 liters per min
fifth cell was -nnn+nnn- temp maxed at 175f and low production less than .5 liters per min
I am getting tired of taking the cell apart everyday to try another configuration. This is where I need your help. I need to find a happy medium and am open to suggestions. I think my next cell is going to be
-nn-nn+nn+nn-nn- or something like that. I am expecting to much heat again...am I right????? Thanks for any input received.

[mario brito]

Dennis wrote a good post that may help you :

http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=572

my first idea would be to reduce your KOH. don't give up ! in the end it will pay off the hard work :)

[stickittoopec]

What voltage and amperage are you working with. I will assume the standard automotive voltages.
If the water is 220 deg f than your production at the core is mostly steam. This is because you electrolyte is very conductive so it takes very little voltage to push through the cell. Anything above the required voltage to push through the cell will convert to heat. For example your cell probably only needs about 1.5 volts, if you are putting in 13.8 volts (standard alternator voltage) and 20 amps you are using 30 watts to make hydrogen and 246 watts to make heat. The way around this is to make a series cell that will drop the voltage at each cell and use the amps to split water to hydrogen. It's amps that makes hydrogen not volts. Here a design I've been working on. You may only need half of this design, I designed it for a truck.
http://www.stickittoopec.com/Series%20Cell.pdf

[EltonBrandd]

What voltage and amperage are you working with. I will assume the standard automotive voltages.
If the water is 220 deg f than your production at the core is mostly steam. This is because you electrolyte is very conductive so it takes very little voltage to push through the cell. Anything above the required voltage to push through the cell will convert to heat. For example your cell probably only needs about 1.5 volts, if you are putting in 13.8 volts (standard alternator voltage) and 20 amps you are using 30 watts to make hydrogen and 246 watts to make heat. The way around this is to make a series cell that will drop the voltage at each cell and use the amps to split water to hydrogen. It's amps that makes hydrogen not volts. Here a design I've been working on. You may only need half of this design, I designed it for a truck.
http://www.stickittoopec.com/Series%20Cell.pdf

Forgive me. The plans are hard for me to grasp. Do you have an actual unit you could show us. And possibly some pictures of the components?

[Stratous]

Hi guys-new guy here-been lurking for a little while-very impressed with the amount of knowledge on this forum. I really need your help on this issue please. First 2 cells spaced @ 1/16" & 3/4 teaspoons of KOH
first cell was -nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn- Production good-too much heat(80-220f in 2 hours time) 1.5-1.75 liters per min
Second cell was -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn- good production-to hot (80-200f in 2 hours) 1.5-1.75 liters per min
Next cells are spaced @ 1/8" & 3/4 teaspoons of KOH
Third cell was -nnnnn+nnnnn- temp maxed @ 140f & production very low less than .5 liters per min
Forth cell was -nnnn+nnnn- temp maxed at 150 & production low less than .5 liters per min
fifth cell was -nnn+nnn- temp maxed at 175f and low production less than .5 liters per min
I am getting tired of taking the cell apart everyday to try another configuration. This is where I need your help. I need to find a happy medium and am open to suggestions. I think my next cell is going to be
-nn-nn+nn+nn-nn- or something like that. I am expecting to much heat again...am I right????? Thanks for any input received.

How much electrolyte is in your cell?
What amperage are you drawing?
Is your cells in series or parallel?
Obviously, something is wrong if your cell is hitting 220° in 2 hours. My guess is you have a parallel setup, or you dont have enough electrolyte to dispurse heat. Many of us here believe that +NNN-NNN+ is better than -NNN+NNN-. I have tested both and also believe the first is better. I believe it has to do with the direction of the current flow. In an electrolytic solution the current travels from negative to positive.

[stickittoopec]

At the bottom of page 2 there is a picture looking in to one of the cells. Here is a demo I put together of a series cell in action.
http://stickittoopec.com/video/Series%20Cell%20Demo.wmv

[c02cutter]

oo much heat is too much electrolyte. Your mix is too strong and you need a pwm circuit to make it optimal. If you want to make true production to be able to run an internal combustion engine you need a pwm. Other than that you need to play with your mix to make it usable. Lower the mix and play there, it will make a world of difference.

[Griz64]

How much electrolyte is in your cell? all tests were done with 3/4 teaspoon of KOH
What amperage are you drawing? Never more than 20 Amps-EVER
also my electrolyte cover the plates plus about 4 inches above that
Here is what happened today-dumped out electrolyte and started from scratch. Started with a config that was like this
-+ 1/2" space N 1/2"space -+ 1/2"space N 1/2"space -+
1/4 teaspoon KOH
12-13.2 volts
cold I am drawing 15 Amps but then after 1 hour I was up to 200 degrees f and pulling about 60 amps. WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING WRONG....HELP
I have not actually tried the +NNN-NNN+ yet and I will tell you why. I was under the impression that the hydrogen is/was produced by the negative side therefore it just made sense to have more negatives than positives...was I wrong in that assumption?
I appreciate all the responses I have gotten so far and PLEASE keep them coming because I am learning all the time.

[Stratous]

How much electrolyte is in your cell? all tests were done with 3/4 teaspoon of KOH
What amperage are you drawing? Never more than 20 Amps-EVER
also my electrolyte cover the plates plus about 4 inches above that
Here is what happened today-dumped out electrolyte and started from scratch. Started with a config that was like this
-+ 1/2" space N 1/2"space -+ 1/2"space N 1/2"space -+
1/4 teaspoon KOH
12-13.2 volts
cold I am drawing 15 Amps but then after 1 hour I was up to 200 degrees f and pulling about 60 amps. WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING WRONG....HELP
I have not actually tried the +NNN-NNN+ yet and I will tell you why. I was under the impression that the hydrogen is/was produced by the negative side therefore it just made sense to have more negatives than positives...was I wrong in that assumption?
I appreciate all the responses I have gotten so far and PLEASE keep them coming because I am learning all the time.

No you are right, the negative plates do produce the hydrogen, but the N plates also produce hydrogen. Give the +nnn-nnn+ a shot, I think you will like it.

[c02cutter]

Simple resistance math here. Water provides resistance by it's nature. If your in an aluminum boat on a lake 20 miles from a lightning strike do you get electrocuted? NO! This is because water has resistance and you need to bring the path of electric closer together to create the electrolysis. Other wise you are pumping electric into nothing without enough oomph to have it. In order to have the electrolysis happen there needs to be enough of a path for the +- to follow. Too far apart and it is dissipated by the water molecule.

Wasn't that a mouthful... but true, lock it up...

[Omega]

How much electrolyte is in your cell? all tests were done with 3/4 teaspoon of KOH
What amperage are you drawing? Never more than 20 Amps-EVER
also my electrolyte cover the plates plus about 4 inches above that
Here is what happened today-dumped out electrolyte and started from scratch. Started with a config that was like this
-+ 1/2" space N 1/2"space -+ 1/2"space N 1/2"space -+
1/4 teaspoon KOH
12-13.2 volts
cold I am drawing 15 Amps but then after 1 hour I was up to 200 degrees f and pulling about 60 amps. WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING WRONG....HELP
I have not actually tried the +NNN-NNN+ yet and I will tell you why. I was under the impression that the hydrogen is/was produced by the negative side therefore it just made sense to have more negatives than positives...was I wrong in that assumption?
I appreciate all the responses I have gotten so far and PLEASE keep them coming because I am learning all the time.

How much water is the 3/4 teaspoon of KOH going into??? It's the concentration (or ratio) of KOH to water that matters.

3/4 teaspoon in a gallon of water may be a little too strong for your cell design, the same amount in a quart would be many times too strong.

So how much water is this 3/4 teaspoon of KOH going into???

[Griz64]

Ah hah well call me stupid-I tried so hard to put all the info in my previous posts and forgot one VERY important one...so thank you for pointing that one out to me. I am using a little more than 1/2 gal..ok 1/2 gallon plus 1 cup...does that help any???
To Stratous-I am going to try the +NNN-NNN+ in the next few days and thank you for all of your insight. Right now I am not willing to give up yet. I really want to get this right so I can move on to the next phase of installing it and tweaking it from there. I welcome all suggestions from everyone and thanks guys.

[Omega]

Ah hah well call me stupid-I tried so hard to put all the info in my previous posts and forgot one VERY important one...so thank you for pointing that one out to me. I am using a little more than 1/2 gal..ok 1/2 gallon plus 1 cup...does that help any???
To Stratous-I am going to try the +NNN-NNN+ in the next few days and thank you for all of your insight. Right now I am not willing to give up yet. I really want to get this right so I can move on to the next phase of installing it and tweaking it from there. I welcome all suggestions from everyone and thanks guys.

Another question for you, Griz. How much of this solution is used in your HHO generator? I've found that there's a correlation between amp draw and volume of electrolyte (water and KOH together). In small containers, the amount of KOH in the electrolyte mix must be smaller than the same cell in a larger container because the larger container and larger volume of liquid is able to dissipate heat much better.

Just food for thought.

All of us are plugging along working toward better systems. Some just plug faster than others. :) I'm making progress myself, but not as fast as I would like.

[Griz64]

I am not sure I understood your question so I will punt here. If this isnt the answer you were going for please let me know and I will try again. I am using 1/2 gal + 1cup of distilled water with 3/4 teaspoon of KOH. I use all of it in my generator. My gen is a 4" round acrylic tube that is 12" long that is rated to 300f. was that what you were looking for or did I completely miss?

[Griz64]

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