Finally got my plates, but need help!!!

[tcr1016]

I was told by a guy at the place where I bought the 316L SS plates that I need to sand them with 30 grit length wise, then Horizontal, and up and down. When I asked why, he stated that a man buying plates for HHO, said it needs to be done.

Is this true?? If so, why do they need to be scratched so deeply with 30 grit?? Does this help the HHO Production??? Do I do all plates, pos, neu, and neg??

My plates are 316L 2 1/2" X 10".

[Philldpapill]

I'd say the sanding just scrapes off any corrosion or impurities on the surface of the plates that might hinder a nice electrical connection betwen plate and water. If you've heard anything about increasing the surface area of the plates by roughing them up, it's total BS. The surface area you need to be worried about(not even that much) is the cross sectional area of the water path to the next plate. In other words, you don't want a HUGE plate area, then pinch off the path for electrons to flow through in the water. Just have a good unobstructed path of water/electrolyte between plates(like normal) and you're good.

[rcflyn]

Do a Search on You Tube. Someone on there did a little demonstration of sanded and non sanded plates. All he did was put a small sanded area on a plate, leaving the rest smooth. He fired it up, and you could SEE the bubbles producing BETTER on the sanded area. PLUS, from what I gather, the sanded area gives the bubbles a better chance to break off the plates. Not sure how true this is, but I've been sanding ALL my plates. When I saw that You Tube demonstration, It convinced me enuf to sand all my plates...
Wish I could remember who did it, or the name of Video, but just search it.. youll find it...

[Helz_McFugly]

Ive always sanded my plates to get them clean and I figured the rougher the surface the easier the bubbles would detatch, like you said, and all my reactors work great. the way I see it in my minds little eye is if the plate is smooth the bubble will stick to the plate longer and make a void of gas on the plate which would make that tiny little spot stop sending current, if its rough it will detatch the bubble quicker thus giving all those little spots more time to send current. I would bet that a good sand blasting of the plates to roughen them up might also work the same way. this is just MO

[H2OPWR]

Ive always sanded my plates to get them clean and I figured the rougher the surface the easier the bubbles would detatch, like you said, and all my reactors work great. the way I see it in my minds little eye is if the plate is smooth the bubble will stick to the plate longer and make a void of gas on the plate which would make that tiny little spot stop sending current, if its rough it will detatch the bubble quicker thus giving all those little spots more time to send current. I would bet that a good sand blasting of the plates to roughen them up might also work the same way. this is just MO

I have found that sanding may help some but having the plates media blasted with 30/60 grit nickel slag or garnet is the way to go. It does help very much and all of my plates are now done that way. It is cheap as well. Usually only a couple of bucks per plate. Any powder coating shop will be able to do it.

Larry

[hhonewbie]

I have my doubts about sanding plates as I believe this is the cause that reduces the life of the cell considerably.

[H2OPWR]

I have my doubts about sanding plates as I believe this is the cause that reduces the life of the cell considerably.

While I understand your concern about plate life do not forget to compare the cost of new plates with the savings you will gain with increased effecincy on electrical costs. This is NOT a very effecient technology. Gaining effeciency is key to a viable technology. The actual cost of the device will far be outweighed over it's usable life by the cost of the electricity it takes to actually run it.

Larry

[Helz_McFugly]

I have my doubts about sanding plates as I believe this is the cause that reduces the life of the cell considerably.

what reduces the life of the plates, well SS plates, is passing more then .5 watts for every sq. in. of surface area you have in a series of cells. example
+nnnnnn- and the plates are 4x4". any more then 8 amps and your plates are being corroded which will reduce their life. Now if you have +nnnnnn-nnnnnn+ 4x4" plates, you can send 16 amps through it because its 2 stacks.

[rcflyn]

I have found that sanding may help some but having the plates media blasted with 30/60 grit nickel slag or garnet is the way to go. It does help very much and all of my plates are now done that way. It is cheap as well. Usually only a couple of bucks per plate. Any powder coating shop will be able to do it.

Larry

Interesting... I have access to a Sand blaster, do you think that'd work as well as what you are talking about??
Something else to experiment with...

[H2OPWR]

Interesting... I have access to a Sand blaster, do you think that'd work as well as what you are talking about??
Something else to experiment with...

It is all the same thing. Sand Blaster is just an old generic name for media blasting. It all boils down to what you use. the most important part is to use a fine 30/60 grit media. Garnet is best followed by aluminum oxide and nickel slag. Just make sure to go easy. It is easy to over do it and either warp your plates or smooth them back out. What you are after is a very course surface like very fine grit sandpaper.

Larry

[Philldpapill]

Larry,
I understand the concept of trying to get a surface that rejects the smaller bubbles from "sticking" as much. It would seem obvious that this would allow a lower resistance path for the current to flow, thus increasing production and efficiency.

However, to me, the media blasted concept seems backwards. I don't doubt you when you say it works, but it just seems that the finer surface area would allow MORE "sticky" spots for bubbles to accumulate. Any thoughts on WHY it works exactly the opposite?

[H2OPWR]

Larry,
I understand the concept of trying to get a surface that rejects the smaller bubbles from "sticking" as much. It would seem obvious that this would allow a lower resistance path for the current to flow, thus increasing production and efficiency.

However, to me, the media blasted concept seems backwards. I don't doubt you when you say it works, but it just seems that the finer surface area would allow MORE "sticky" spots for bubbles to accumulate. Any thoughts on WHY it works exactly the opposite?


There are several reasons it works much better. Any time a bubble is stuck to a plate it is making the spot where it is stuck to usless for production. When a molocule of water splits it expands 1800 times. If all of that now split molocule remains on a plate for any length of time that means that 1800 water molocules can not come in contact with the plate surface and reduces the plates effeciency. With a smooth plate surface that bubble will get many times it's size before it gains enough boyancy to break the suction grip it has on the plate. In addition by media blasting the plates the surface area increases many many times over allowing more water to be incontact at the same time. With a very rough plate surface the bubbles escape when they are much smaller. I wish I had done some close up video footage of the acrylic cells I built so everyone could see the difference. The difference in the size of the bubbles was amazing. Because it was hard for the bubbles to stick they came up much quicker and my effeciency came up as well as the current density I could run. I am fully aware that there are two schools of thought here. Some folks even micropolish the stainless to make it smoother. Media blasting is just a poor mans way of getting the same effect as nano coating the plates..

Larry