Does it work?

[nathans1987]

i made a hho system that produced about .7-.8 LPM and put in my car to see if i could notice a difference in the AFR out the exhaust. . It would burn different but i didnt notice any difference. how much do i need to notice any difference? i'v been looking on the internet and i havnt come across a clear system that works and is proven to my liking. i have seen people claim a 20% drop in fuel consumption but the economy figures the gave for the system were not out of the ordinary for the car. the usually also say they drive gently.

can someone point me to some proven tests back to back in same conditions.

[mytoyotasucks]

OK first of all LPM goes with engine size.

And I find engines cant be compared from one to another, you almost need to build for that car. But I use add on's to make it work for me, my current car has a lot of extras.

I am currently running a 96 Saturn SL2 1.9L DOHC- Orig 34MPG intown - with HHO 6LPM Dry cell, PWM, EGT, Laptop live data, Dual O2 and Map adjuster - Getting 28% increase to 44MPG in town.

And i made the PWM and Dual O2 and map adjuster myself and specifically for the car.
The PWM sitting it the engine bay and have a shunt with electronic display showing amps and volts.

[Helz_McFugly]

a shunt with electronic display showing amps and volts

did you build that or buy it? got a link. Ide like something like that.

[mytoyotasucks]

did you build that or buy it? got a link. Ide like something like that.

Bought it off ebay for $25 from hongkong.

They want way too much here for it.

And i should say the display on does amps, volts is from the OBDII.

Just goto ebay and put in shunt - lots come up.

[nathans1987]

OK first of all LPM goes with engine size.

And I find engines cant be compared from one to another, you almost need to build for that car. But I use add on's to make it work for me, my current car has a lot of extras.

I am currently running a 96 Saturn SL2 1.9L DOHC- Orig 34MPG intown - with HHO 6LPM Dry cell, PWM, EGT, Laptop live data, Dual O2 and Map adjuster - Getting 28% increase to 44MPG in town.

And i made the PWM and Dual O2 and map adjuster myself and specifically for the car.
The PWM sitting it the engine bay and have a shunt with electronic display showing amps and volts.

what is a dry cell?

i have a 5.7L v8 not to worried about fuel consumption just trying to get it to work. i dont have to worry about O2 sensord map or anything else because i can tune the car to run however i want i know how to tune etc.

i have a wideband oxygen sensor which is an accuriate wey to measure afr ratio not like a normal O2 sensor which is only good for stoich. and when i put my .7 LPM into the intake i see no difference in afr. i want to make a setup that can produce alot of gas too see if i can get any difference in afr. i would think that afr would lean right out if hydrogen was burned because it only produces water and oxygen gases after combustion?

can somone or a few people tell me how there systems are made and setup and amps + LPM ??

[mytoyotasucks]

Dry cell is a set of plates that have gaskets sandwitched between them to hold electrolyte.

my cell runs around 35 amps(controled) 5 - 6 LPM, 22 plates and it does produce some steam.

The afr should read lean cause of oaa the extra O2.

And you should read more in this forum, there are lots of threads on builds and results.

[redrat100]

For the last 3 months - 96 Saturn SL2 - Orig 34MPG intown - with HHO 6LPM, PWM, EGT, Laptop live data, O2 and Map adjuster - Getting 28% increase to 44MPG in town.

28% is a respectable increase. With a 1.6 liter engine you're putting in 6 lpm HHO to get it, and some electronics. It seems that you have busted the rule of thumb myth of 1 lpm HHO for every liter of engine displacement.

[redrat100]

i made a hho system that produced about .7-.8 LPM and put in my car to see if i could notice a difference in the AFR out the exhaust. . It would burn different but i didnt notice any difference. how much do i need to notice any difference?

But, to get back on topic...
Your Air / Fuel Ration will not change by adding HHO. The ECU meters it to 14.7 / 1. The only way to change the AFR is by adding an efie like MyToyotasucks has.

Some folks on the forum have come up with a rule of thumb that it takes 1 lpm of HHO per liter of engine displacement to make a noticable difference. I can't verify that but I think it takes a lot more. Because, at freeway speed a 2.0 liter engine pumps through about 2250 lpm of AFR. Adding 2 lpm HHO seems low to me at .0008%.

[mytoyotasucks]

But, to get back on topic...
Your Air / Fuel Ration will not change by adding HHO. The ECU meters it to 14.7 / 1. The only way to change the AFR is by adding an efie like MyToyotasucks has.

Some folks on the forum have come up with a rule of thumb that it takes 1 lpm of HHO per liter of engine displacement to make a noticable difference. I can't verify that but I think it takes a lot more. Because, at freeway speed a 2.0 liter engine pumps through about 2250 lpm of AFR. Adding 2 lpm HHO seems low to me at .0008%.

I was thinking AFR at the O2 sensor.

[mytoyotasucks]

28% is a respectable increase. With a 1.6 liter engine you're putting in 6 lpm HHO to get it, and some electronics. It seems that you have busted the rule of thumb myth of 1 lpm HHO for every liter of engine displacement.

I originally had the cell making 3 LPM and could not get a repeatable result, the gain was very iratic from one day to the next.

I found by adding more LPM gave a more constan gain, and the cell is not a true 6 LMP cause of steam. But it works great.

Oh 1.9 L not 1.6

[nathans1987]

But, to get back on topic...
Your Air / Fuel Ration will not change by adding HHO. The ECU meters it to 14.7 / 1. The only way to change the AFR is by adding an efie like MyToyotasucks has.

Some folks on the forum have come up with a rule of thumb that it takes 1 lpm of HHO per liter of engine displacement to make a noticable difference. I can't verify that but I think it takes a lot more. Because, at freeway speed a 2.0 liter engine pumps through about 2250 lpm of AFR. Adding 2 lpm HHO seems low to me at .0008%.

if you had read my post i said i can tune i dont need any such device. the reason that o2 sensored cars dont work is because the correct the fueling in closed loop mode. however i run my car in open loop mode which most computers have they use it for wot (wide open throttle) etc where the afr is not stoich (14.7:1) closed loop only works for stoich because narrowband sensors like most cars have are only accuriate for that area.

ok so i need alot more gas? is that what your saying. my car at 1500rpm on hwy 65mph would use about 4000Lpm of air at the efficiancy its working at 1500rpm and the map pressure it uses at cruising speed maybe less. if i get 10lpm hho it would be about 0.25% not very much would that be high enough to make a difference?

at idel tho where i was doing my test it would be considrably less.

[redrat100]

ok so i need alot more gas? is that what your saying. my car at 1500rpm on hwy 65mph would use about 4000Lpm of air at the efficiancy its working at 1500rpm and the map pressure it uses at cruising speed maybe less. if i get 10lpm hho it would be about 0.25% not very much would that be high enough to make a difference? at idel tho where i was doing my test it would be considrably less.

Yes. Some experimenters on this forum have come up with a myth (rule) of thumb that it takes 1lpm of hho per liter of engine displacement for any noticable mpg gains. I cannot prove nor disprove this. But I suspect that much more hho is needed because of the volume an engine can pump. I have a 2.0 Jetta. Before my cell crapped out it was putting out 1 lpm. I only got a 2.5% mpg increase. I am building a bigger cell now.

If you can tune instead of use an efie, that is great! That is beyond many of us here. By tuning do you mean tweeking the ecu programming?

[nathans1987]

Yes. Some experimenters on this forum have come up with a myth (rule) of thumb that it takes 1lpm of hho per liter of engine displacement for any noticable mpg gains. I cannot prove nor disprove this. But I suspect that much more hho is needed because of the volume an engine can pump. I have a 2.0 Jetta. Before my cell crapped out it was putting out 1 lpm. I only got a 2.5% mpg increase. I am building a bigger cell now.

If you can tune instead of use an efie, that is great! That is beyond many of us here. By tuning do you mean tweeking the ecu programming?

yeah i can change all the parameters the ecu runs by and change the way it runs in some cases. like running in open loop instead of closed loop. open loop dosent use feedback from o2 sensors.