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Mr.Smith
10-06-2009, 10:54 AM
I am working on a Smack that is a brute force design (supposedly, I could be wrong). I have 16 ss plates that is is set up like this +nnnnnn--nnnnnn+ (i believe). Now I am having problems with HHO production. I used a little bit of the Drain cleaner as a catalyst in Distilled water and saw minimal results. I decided to put more in and saw better results. I eneded up putting a lot of it and saw a lot of bubbling and I guess a lot of gass production but not quite like I have seen in some videos. I saw a lot of foaming which I didn't see in other videos.
I have no idea what is wrong and would like to be guided in the right direction.
Helz_McFugly
10-06-2009, 11:02 AM
which Drain cleaner ar you using? I think Drano crystal and red devil lye are about the only two you can use.
jerrygoldsmith
10-06-2009, 10:05 PM
could it possibly be something with your design?

snap a picture and post it.
sho14u
10-06-2009, 11:19 PM
What are you powering your unit with? From your car, battery, or battery charger? Since you are running so many plates, you are going to need a lot more amperage to get it to take off. I found that its not necessarily the amount of plate area as it is the power source that will be powering it. If your running 16 plates, you are going to need about 60 amps to make it take off. If you are running from your car, that aint gonna happen.
Helz_McFugly
10-07-2009, 08:38 AM
Im running 19 plates 13.8VDC off my car and pulling 13 amps. my plates are only 3"x3" so it doesnt take as much, It makes a little over 1LPM. I have a e-lyzer that has 7 9"x9" plates and it can pull 44 amps with the same e-lyte mixture. but it also puts out almost 5LPM.
biggy boy
10-07-2009, 02:50 PM
Maybe it's because the plates are new and they need time to break in and
condition?

Whats the gap width between the plate? That's important too.
Buster
10-07-2009, 03:50 PM
I am working on a Smack that is a brute force design (supposedly, I could be wrong). I have 16 ss plates that is is set up like this +nnnnnn--nnnnnn+ (i believe). Now I am having problems with HHO production. I used a little bit of the Drain cleaner as a catalyst in Distilled water and saw minimal results. I decided to put more in and saw better results. I eneded up putting a lot of it and saw a lot of bubbling and I guess a lot of gass production but not quite like I have seen in some videos. I saw a lot of foaming which I didn't see in other videos.
I have no idea what is wrong and would like to be guided in the right direction.


When running an 8 series cell like this you will get very low HHO output from a charger if it is only 12V. When you put it into the car itself it will produce more gas as the car is 13.6V or so. The voltage is the main issue with the low gas output, but you could add more electrolyte (up to around 25% KOH or similar by weight to distilled water) and get the output up, but I would recommend a PWM to keep the heat down. I've run these cell configurations with a couple of teaspoons of KOH and no PWM without any problems. Foaming is a hassle but there are ways to deal with it via return feed bubblers etc.

An 8 series cell is certainly not 'brute force'...more like just a 'ticking over cell'. They don't run that aggressively but they are quite efficient long term, and you can run them easily without a PWM.
Helz_McFugly
10-07-2009, 04:33 PM
Buster Isnt that a 7 cell config hes running?

"edit" never mind, you said 8 series. I guess youre talking about plates in series. 8 plates, 7 cells.
Buster
10-07-2009, 04:49 PM
Yes, I just count the plates to keep it simple and avoid confusion.

Note, if you drop one plate per series to make it a 7 series the gas output will dramatically increase, but you'll need to make sure you account for the extra current (over 50A on the car) with your wires and heat, plus efficiency.....unless you use a PWM, of course, which I recommend if you go this route.

I wish Smack would explain all this stuff in his plans!!
Mr.Smith
10-09-2009, 10:46 AM
I appreciate everyone's help on this.
Been away for a bit dealing with other tasks.
I began finding out info on this stuff about a couple weeks ago and never imagined there would be this much indepth knowledge to go along with it. I got some pics for you guys to look at to see that maybe its a design flaw. I'm not sure the EXACT spacing but I am using 5/16" nylon washer.

As far as the power issue. I am using a car battery attached to the car, now does it make a difference if the car is on?? After reading some replies I am assuming yes.

I figured a nother problem of mine would be the catalyst (which needs to be switched to KOH). I mean I have seen a couple videos from people using KOH and the production is just ridiculous (in a good way) and there is no foaming that I could tell.

I bought #4 wiring which can stand a load of 80 amps if I am not mistaken but only have a 40 amp fuse/relay.

To be honest I bought one of those HHO booklets online which cost about $70, thinking I could get a head faster but the directions seemed vague and definitely not in order. In my case I used the Hybrid water system. I did like a lot of his suggestions as far as materials were concerned but the booklet seemed very unorganized and a challenge, for a newbie, to get started. I has to be a step by step instruction with pictures as you go along. I spent almost 3 days finding parts because there were no pictures of a lot of things I was supposed to buy and the names he gave them (in the items column) did not match the ACTUAL name of the part.
Mr.Smith
10-09-2009, 10:50 AM
pics

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/DMSSoundSolutions/HHOcell2.jpg

http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/DMSSoundSolutions/HHocell.jpg
Buster
10-09-2009, 11:14 AM
Sorry, I didn't realise you were talking about a wetcell, I was referring to Smack's drycell design. You'll have to discount some of what I said as I don't touch wetcells. I think some of the other guys have some experience with them, though.
jerrygoldsmith
10-09-2009, 12:33 PM
not to get off topic, but where did you get your straps to connect plates to wires/etc? looks like they are rubber coated?
Helz_McFugly
10-09-2009, 08:59 PM
I think its a heat shrink Jerry.
Mr.Smith
10-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Helz is right. I got the heat shrink at Home Depot.
jerrygoldsmith
10-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Helz is right. I got the heat shrink at Home Depot.

bah. mine doesn't carry it, i checked. Stupid Nashville.......

your cell looks good though!
Mr.Smith
10-11-2009, 07:55 PM
thanks jerry, but looking good and actually working good are two different things.
biggy boy
10-11-2009, 08:56 PM
Thought I would post a picture of a wet cell I just finished assembling.
It's going to be used in a "special" test.
Normally I would not bother making a wet cell, but it's for an experiment that does not involve efficiency.

It's made with 8 3 1/2" x 7" plates, 7 cell stack. Spaced with thin strips of curtain material, run down both sides and a little strip top and bottom for support. The whole thing is wrapped tight with electrical tape to hold it together. The tape will I hope, also help to prevent/minimize current leakage on the sides.
I'll convert it to a dry cell once I'm done the experiment.

I thought I would post it, to show a different way of assembling a wet cell.


http://www.nicksrealm.com/Gallery/d/198-1/wetcell1.jpg

http://www.nicksrealm.com/Gallery/d/203-2/wetcell2.jpg