no luck so far [Archive]

88stang23

09-30-2009, 07:32 PM

i must either have horrible luck or my hhoo cell hates me. the first vehicle i applied this technology to was my '96 Chevy S10. it worked for a while until i did something (i still dont know what) to the cell to make it stop working. i rebuilt the cell and tried again. a few months later the same thing happened. this time the cell was fine but i had 2 rewire it. which in my case meant having to run 2 lengths of 10 gauge wire from the front all the way to the back. a couple weeks after that the wires shorted again. this time i changed the design to have 1 wire going to the back and the ground to be near the cell. this worked for 2 days. after all this i gave up for several months until i decided to remake the system. i overhauled the cell with a better design that allowed for easier service. i bench tested this cell and it worked great. i even made a youtube video about it. yesterday i started installing all the wiring in my sunfire. i routed the hoses and wires and made a design that impressed even me. today i finish setting up and put the cell in the car, but when i go to turn it on i get nothing. there is current going through the cell but HHOO gas isnt being made (no bubbles). i tried another bench test and got the same result. and 1 thing that confused me was the fact that i could have no power supply through the cell and still have 1.7 volts running through it. im really confused by this. i shouldnt be!!!!!! its a 3 plate cell connected to the battery with a hose to the intake. it doesnt get any simpler WTF!!!!!!

IM2L844

10-01-2009, 08:52 AM

Where are you getting this 1.7 volt figure from? That's not right no matter how you look at it.

velorossa22

10-01-2009, 12:16 PM

So is your cell consuming the same amount of amperage whether it works or it doesn't? I had an issue with heat that would cause slight warping after a longer run and it would start shorting plates together, thus causing the cell not to work. I noticed it when driving when my current started to drop some ( was still pulling amps though). Another time it caused a dead short ( I don't think that's your problem)
What electrolyte are you using?

88stang23

10-02-2009, 12:29 PM

i dont know where the voltage is coming from. all i know is i had the positive side connected 2 a battery and my meter hooked up. it read 1.7 volts. maybe its the meter. but it still freaked me out.

im not sure about amperage. all i measured was voltage. ill check to see what it is. and it cant be heat warpage cuz i only ran the cell about 3 times at about a minute each time since i rebuilt it.

also, im not using an electrolyte. the cell worked without it. i used purified water. then again that might be the problem cuz last time i used tap water.

IM2L844

10-02-2009, 12:53 PM

I don't know about the 1.7 volts either, but you won't get anything with purified water. It is a very poor conductor of electricity.

88stang23

10-02-2009, 11:43 PM

what about distilled water. its a little different. i just dont want tap water cuz u end up with alot of brown crap in there. friggin iron deposits

Helz_McFugly

10-02-2009, 11:50 PM

yea. you always want to use distilled water. but you have to have a catalyst in the water like an electrolyte, and the best one is KOH. baking soda can be used but its crap.

Helz_McFugly

10-02-2009, 11:55 PM

some purified waters have additives in them. maybe thats why it worked without e-lytes last time.

88stang23

10-03-2009, 12:01 AM

i dont think i can get any potassium hydroxide at walmart or target lol. can i use anything thats a little more accessible? and ill take your word on the baking soda

Helz_McFugly

10-03-2009, 12:16 AM

drano crystal is sodium hydroxide. red devil lye is potasium hydroxide. but you have to desolve it and filter out the little shards of metal that come in it. this is what I used on my first e-lyzer. sodium hydroxide is the second best thing to use but its better to buy it as NaOH or KOH rahter then drano or lye, but the drano and lye works. be sure you have a good bubbling/scrubbing system cuz ya dont want any e-lytes in your engine.
http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE2-1245143reg.jpghttp://www.super-grow.biz/graphics/RedDevil.jpg
and be sure the label says "sodium hydroxide" and not a bunch of other stuff.

Helz_McFugly

10-03-2009, 12:20 AM

baking soda works, it just dont work that good. but its safe

88stang23

10-03-2009, 12:35 AM

yeah about the bubbling/scrubbing systems.......i dont have any. i got 99% of my info from eddie batista and last time i checked he doesnt use a bubbler with his HHOO cell. he does use a flash arrestor in some of his applications tho. and i could whip 1 of those up in about 5 minutes. other than that i dont ever have anything between the cell and my intake. pardon my ignorance but i like keeping things simple

Helz_McFugly

10-03-2009, 01:02 AM

yea a flash arrestor is a must, but so is a bubbler when you have electrolytes. A MUST. Its just a water bong for your car, very easy to make. even one is fine. you never ever want to go straight from your e-lyzer to your intake. I have 3, most do. one is the refill tank/bubbler that has the electrolytes in it that keep the e-lyzer full via gravity, the second bubbler is just water and the third is a dryer/scrubber, its a water sediment filter that forces the gas through a thick dence filter to remove the rest of the electrolytes out of the gas.

If your e-lyzer is making steam, there is e-lytes in that steam and that will damage your engine.

88stang23

10-03-2009, 01:15 AM

thats pretty good to know. but this brings up a question of system specifics. my inlet to the intake isnt directly in the intake. its actually a few feet away, about an inch away from the air cleaner on the clean air side. now i heard that if any water gets there itll just casually drip onto the filter and wont really have time to travel through the ductwork and into the intake. is this true? and if it is then wouldnt my need for a bubbler also be negated?

Helz_McFugly

10-03-2009, 01:40 AM

this is a topic that is still being debated & tested. some say its better to introduce the HHO as close to the combustion chamber as you can to provent dolution. others say once its in the air its in the air. its not going to get any more deluted because there is no more inlets of air after the air filter. I have tried both and have had the same results both ways. right now its on the vacuum and the ony difference is that my bubblers go crazy, sometimes they bubble like mad and sometimes the stop for a few seconds SO I have an idea that im going to make that will allow you to T into the vacuum and the air intake, so which ever one has the most vacuum will pull HHO and not leave a vacume leak from having a hose ran from a vacuum to the air intake, it will require 2 check valves and a T, but thats later, Ill post a blue print when its done and Ive tested it with vacuum guages and all that mess. I had it right before the throttle body when I started and it was fine. BUT heres the deal. you want it down stream of the MAF (after the MAF) because it can cause the MAF to fail, and they aint cheap. so youll want to find your MAF sensor and get behind that so the HHO isnt passing over it. some MAF sensors have a little wire that gets hot and could ignite the HHO. Ive never heard of it happening but I can visualize it. the way you explained it is how the scam sited say to do it because like you said, it negates a bubbler, but they dont tell you about the steam and the HHO screwing your MAF sensor up. theres alot they dont tell you. hence scam sites. #1 scam site www.water4gas.com, www.runcaronwater4gas.com, www.hydrowaterpower.com, www.watertogas.com, www.waterforgaskits.com, The list goes on and on.

88stang23

10-03-2009, 01:53 AM

wow. this is where it gets interesting. first of all. im definetly going to be crafting a flash arrestor. and secondly, theres pretty much an equal distance between the filter and my maf sensor on either side of my inlet. its a max of 3-4 inches between the inlet and the filter and the inlet and the maf sensor. that might b a problem. the maf sensor may be on the other side of the hose but i doubt that will prove to be any consolation to me. and i dont use any of those sites my site is http://eddie-batista.dyndns.org/. he makes things simple :)

88stang23

10-04-2009, 01:07 AM

and about the bubbler. i have seen many many many many many (ect) bubbler ideas and designs in my spur of the moment research about them. all of this learning has only made me more confused(my head hurts from all the videos, websites, and posts i viewed). so from the point of view of someone who uses 3 and obviously knows what they are doing, i would like to know what the best and/or simplest and/or cheapest design is.

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 02:36 AM

I have 3 reservoirs. all of which are the clear sediment filters 1st one is the bubbler/e-lyte refill container which bubbles out of the e-lyver and refills it, its an upside down sediment filter with a port drilled in the top (which is really the bottom of the clear part) for the gas to exit through a check valve into the second reservoir which is the clean water bubbler, this is a sediment filter as well, the gas goes into the "out" port on it because where it comes out inside, is in the center where I have attached a hose that hangs down to the bottom with a air rock on it, the gas exits out of the "in" port on that bubbler and into the final reservoir which is the exact same sediment filter with the filter left in it and ran the same way, gas goes into the "out" port on the filter and is forced down the center of the sediment filter which removes any remaining steam and e-lytes and then exits out of the "in" port. then on to the vacuum intake of my engine. Ill get a pic of it tomorrow so you can see it.
This is the exact sediment filters I use for all 3 reservoirs
http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/hq2vomqc6hij/mycao4/wholehousefiltersystemwhkf-dwhv.jpg

biggy boy

10-04-2009, 04:39 PM

On another forum a guy was having problems when he introduced the HHO into his air box, up stream of his filter.
The caustic fluid coming from his HHO Generator was dripping on the air filter
and eating holes in it. That's NOT good!!
Holes in your filter cause dirt to get to your motor, along with the filter chunks :eek:

Glen

biggy boy

10-04-2009, 04:51 PM

i http://eddie-batista.dyndns.org/. he makes things simple :)

Hi 88stang!
I took a look at Eddie's site.
It's a well done site, for it's age:)
That is some old school he's got there!
A lot has changed since he made that site up.

It's like comparing a Model T to a modern car.
Or Windows DOS or Windows 3.1 to Vista. :p

Maybe check out the BB smack design, when you have a chance. Thats what all the cool kids on my block are building.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyMA7x2wfV0&feature=PlayList&p=AFE0C21ED792D60B&index=0&playnext=1

And his site:
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/

Glen

88stang23

10-04-2009, 08:58 PM

wow that looks like something i can get a lowes. and im almost positive that i already use those same "quick connect" fittings. and about the sites. i will be sure to check them out as soon as i fix the sound on my pc (i hate computers) and i would also like to add that i would take the model T over a modern car in a heartbeat hahaha

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 09:57 PM

Heres my system as of now.
http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1367&stc=1&d=1254707837

biggy boy

10-04-2009, 10:06 PM

Heres my system as of now.
http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1367&stc=1&d=1254707837

Looking Good there Helz:cool:
Man you have remade yours like what four or five time? And I'm still fiddling with the my first build :rolleyes:
I'm almost done. Need to torque the plates down, attach the hoses and pressure/leak test it.

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 10:16 PM

I got some 9"x9" plates coming to me this week along with efie's, PMWs, end plates, and some other stuff so Ill be rebuilding again and removing this small system and puting the large system in my 08 charger. Im going to put this small one on my 83 toyota 4 banger. it should be prefect for boosting that little engine. and this big plate system should work better for the Charger.

88stang23

10-04-2009, 10:23 PM

wow this is some really impressive stuff. ill try to post a picture of my system to see if we can come up with something i can get away with. because i can tell you right now, that will not work for me i just dont have the space. and im afraid ill blow something up if i dont have some kind of experience to back me up. lol:D

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 10:32 PM

you wont blow anything up. youre not storing HHO or anything. the most that can happen is a backfire from your engine and popping off the top of what ever thats ran to. thats what the flash back arestor is for. SO easy to make, but that damn bronze wool is "order only" but you can use steel wool till you get it, but the steel wool will rust pretty fast.

And as far as room, I cant fit a egg under my hood i so tight in there. thats whay I roughted a line from the truck, under the car along side the fuel line up to the intake.

biggy boy

10-04-2009, 10:38 PM

Marine supply places have the bronze wool. I got mine at West Marine.
There's several of them near you helz.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreOverviewPageView?St=Texas&Db=DLRWMarine&Ci=Huston&jspStoreDir=wm51&Com=adr&requesttype=find&UIn1=&Ds=&catalogId=10001&Name=L&langId=-1&findstores=overview&LIM=200&RT=lo&FromPage=StoreLocator&storeId=10001&ddkey=StoreLocatorCmd

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 10:59 PM

sure is. about 20 miles away. Thank you. I wonder if they have a small water pump that will hook up to 1/4 hose. Ide like to have a small pump on that little system. All walmart had was a submusable bildge pump and it looked like it hooked up tpo a waterhose. I know they have ot have one for a live tank or something like this.
http://www.adventurerv.net/shurflo-nautilus-single-station-water-pump-gpm-p-1713.html

I need 3 of these too
http://www.adventurerv.net/shurflo-inline-check-valve-p-1722.html?osCsid=eidb4ni5659r1vj23ba55l7l52

88stang23

10-04-2009, 11:00 PM

a flash arrestor is not my problem. i can make them in all of 5 minutes if i needed to. and as for space, i have less than you think. my sunfire has no room under the hood. thats why i routed everything to the trunk. normally that wont be a problem, but i go to a tech school and must carry around my tools. thats where the problem is. my trunk space is about 1/3 its usual amount and a system like yours would never fit. thats one of the reasons i like to keep things very simple. the other reason is because im really cheap lol. but thats beside the point:D

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 11:08 PM

well if ya get through the school part that cheap thing might go away. :p

you can always jack you car up and see if there any room for stuff under there anywhere. I know it would be a pain to deal with but alot of people do it. Im not a big fan of it. hell ide take out my passenger seat and put it there if I didnt have a family. :p

88stang23

10-04-2009, 11:16 PM

yeah, finishing school would definitely solve my cheap problem. but i still have a year and a half to go. and the back seat is out of the question because whatever i cant fit in the trunk i have to put back there. and when i routed my hoses i had to spend a looooooong time under that car. and theres no room under there either. i just dont have any room. if i was doing this to my chevy S10 again it would be a different story. but im not allowed to drive that 1 anymore :(

Helz_McFugly

10-04-2009, 11:22 PM

Here ya go. LMAO. as gay as it is. Its not a bad Idea
http://www.gmc.com/images/yukon/accessories/Yukon_Hard_Cargo_lrg.jpg

biggy boy

10-05-2009, 08:30 PM

Here's my new Gen, it's going in a box in the bed of my truck.
It's just dry fitted for the moment. I have to put hose clamps on and fill it up and test for leaks...
The board with everything attached pops into the box for easy install and removal.
There will be another board for the left hand side of the box.
In the box will be the batteries to run the HHO Gen.
On the board will be an electronic charger, relays, fuses, voltage and amp meter.......
The board will also be modular too.

Watch out Helz this B*tch is going to have blue LEDs too:p

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m297/biggy-boy/gif_1.gif

Helz_McFugly

10-05-2009, 09:06 PM

Looks nice man. neet and clean. I like that. your plate config is exactly like mine only mines only 3"x3".
I cant wait for my stuff to get here so I can ditch this temp system. I like the airsoft BB's for displacement in your dry scrubber.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m297/biggy-boy/gif_1.gif

biggy boy

10-05-2009, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the kind words Helz! I really appreciate it!
The Flash back arrestor also has a water filter in it and the center of the filter is filled with the beads too. There is some bronze wool packed in at the inlet and outlet to keep the beads in.

The S/S plates for the stack are 8 inches by 10 inches.

The second bubbler looks Like H@ll, because there was some stick label on it.
I tried to remove it with lacquer thinners but it melted.:o
I'm going to try to polish it out. If not Ill try to find a replacement one.

Glen

88stang23

10-06-2009, 10:16 PM

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=633328&imageID=57835196

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.editAlbumPhoto&albumID=633328&imageID=57835190 they arent the best and i hope these links work. but my cell ist officially hooked up because im tinkering with it. everything i need has to fit in there somewhere.

biggy boy

10-06-2009, 10:40 PM