explanation sought for higher oxygen reading when adding HHO

[johnyb]

Forgive me if this has already been posted before. I have done a search but have not been able to find the explanation i am seeking.

I am a newbie in that i have no real experience with HHO yet. Well, except for a quick and dirty baking soda experiment some years ago, which hardly counts, as i was freaked out at how quickly the cell managed to melt the container. I was really pushed for time in doing much more. Since about last year i have done some reading off and on about HHO, and i am contemplating some experimentation as the weather starts to fine up at this side of the globe.

Ok, on to the question
How is it that the (claims of the) exhaust gas Oxygen sensor gives a richer Oxygen reading if one adds HHO without any Effie or other modifications??? It just does not make sense as to how or why. Will someone please explain this.

Thanks

[Philldpapill]

First, HHO is nothing special. It's a mixture of Hydrogen(H2) and Oxygen(O2) molecules. The intersting thing about it, is that it is a stochiometric ratio, meaning that for every O2 molecule, there are 2 H2 molecules. This is perfect for combustion because, in chemistry terms, all the reactants are converted to the products, without any left over. In other words, when you ignite the HHO mixture, every bit of it is turned into H20 - water.

The reason that your O2 sensor sees more oxygen, is because there IS more oxygen from the Oxygen in the HHO. Simple as that. However, your computer in your car doesn't take into account that this extra oxygen also has extra combustibles(Hydrogen) in the mixture. In other words, the computer "thinks" that there is too much oxygen coming in for the given fuel mixture.

[johnyb]

Thanks for taking the time to explain

As i understand it, the burning of hydrogen will recombine Hydrogen with the Oxygen to form Water. Considering that Hydrogen burns faster than Petrol/ Gasoline, my thinking leads me to believe in a high likely hood of most (if not all) of the Hydrogen recombining with the Oxygen to form water. If all or most of the Hydrogen re bonds with the Oxygen, then how is it possible for an Oxygen sensor located at the exhaust going give a higher Oxygen reading. My car is an older model and has only one Oxygen sensor, and that is situated in/ on the exhaust. I vaguely recall reading that some cars have two sensors. I am wondering if the 2nd sensor on these, or newer cars might be located on the intake.

[Roland Jacques]

I dont think extra O2 from HHO is effecting O2 sensors. I am not sure the exact reason our sensors read extra O2. But I'm fairly sure it not the O2 from the HHO gas. Some say its the lower heat at the sensors, or lack of hydrocarbon in the exhaust, or extra O2 from a faster burn. "Just not using all the existing O2" :confused:
I really dont know the answer.



Here some evidence that IMO points out it can not possible be the extra O2 from the HHO


1. The extra O2 your adding is not enough to completely burn all the extra H2 you are adding. I dont think "HHO Gas" is not the ideal burn ratio. HHO by weight, maybe.
(If you burn Pure HHO under water you end up with bubbles that still burn without the pop that normally associated with HHO.)
Even if HHO was the perfect burn ratio, it would only be enough extra O2, to burn the extra H2 that we are adding. There still would not be any left over O2,to be concidered extra.

2. Many folks have tried H2 only and still had the same O2 sensor issues.

3. You can take pure O2 at lpm and put it in your intake and your sensor wont see it. This was demonstrated on you tube I have never tested this myself.

4. Same guy on YouTube also feed straight O2 into his exhaust before his O2 sensor at about 2lpm, with no change in readings from his O2 sensors.

5. The amount of O2 we are adding is so small it really is mute.
With a 350 CID engine at idle, it sees 51,000 LPM of O2. If I inject 5lpm of HHO that is 2LPM of O2. That's 25,500:1 or 0.004 %. I would think Air density (barometric pressure) changes would effect O2 concentration more than that hourly.

[mtrhd440]

The reason the o2 sensor sees more oxygen is due to the monotomic hydrogen will combine with a hydrocarbon faster than with oxygen. Thi leaves the left-over montomic oxygen not burned to flow out the exhaust. The VCM will then "see" a lean mixture, and try to richen up the system. This is why a HHO generator gives limited results on it own. You must do something to influence what the VCM does.

[Helz_McFugly]

nice. Ive tried to picture why this was happening but couldnt figure it out. and have never seen where anyone explained why, even the ones selling the 02 efie's. well said

[Roland Jacques]

The reason the o2 sensor sees more oxygen is due to the monotomic hydrogen will combine with a hydrocarbon faster than with oxygen. Thi leaves the left-over montomic oxygen not burned to flow out the exhaust. The VCM will then "see" a lean mixture, and try to richen up the system. This is why a HHO generator gives limited results on it own. You must do something to influence what the VCM does.

5 problems with this explanation.

The first problem is most chemist types say Monatomic H1 or O1 can not exist for more than a Split-second when other H1 & O1 are present.
Do you have any info that supports that they can exist for any time at all before binding back into H2 and O2?

Even if what you say is true, this could only explain my 1st point (in post 4), but does not address point 2,3,4, & especially #5. So...

[Helz_McFugly]

i guess you would have to kow exactly how an 02 sensors chemical reaction works to ge these reading. maybe its seeing the extra H20 thats created by the burning of the HHO. It might not be reading more 02, maybe its reading other molicules and thinks its 02. can anyone disprove that? I even read somewhere that the 02 sensors dont even read 02, they read unburt fuel, but the wrighter had no credibility so i took as "talking out the azz". I would just be giddy if I know why there is a higher 02 reading on an 02 sensor when you introduce HHO to the exhaust.

I mean the hydrogen that is burt is out before the gas burn is out right? well wouldnt that cause a water vapor due to the byproduct of burning hyrogern, H20. maybe its jsut reading more H20 then normal. Iknow water is a byproduct of regular gasoline combustion but adding HHO would make it higher.

when doing water or steam injection does the 02 sensor read more 02 as well? do you need an efie for your 02 sensors when you do water/steam injection?

OR am I just way out in left field chaising butterflies?