Bubbler question

[cabrera]

I'm just fartsing around with a bubbler and being the type of person that measures 10 times to cut once, I would like some feedback.

In the below picture if you consider the outlet as installed as shown. I need to install an inlet.
I have 3 location possibilities for the inlet, can anyone see any downside to any of the locations I have indicated with the arrows?

http://members.cox.net/sporttrac/stuff/bub.jpg

[biggy boy]

The only thing I can think of is if you use the lower spot and you have a leak around the fitting it could drain the bubbler.
If you use the upper locations and you have a leak around the fitting it would not drain the bubbler.
But then again if you did have a leak at the fitting at the top it would leak HHO possibly undetected, whereas if the leak was at the bottom no HHo would leak out and the fluid would be a tattletale indicator of a leak.

[cabrera]

The reason I ask is, just below the inlet inside the tube I installed an extremely fine mesh screen which will act as a barrier limiting the amount of liquid that can splash up & be accidentally sent to the engine (the slosh issue discussed elsewhere).

Just testing it out to see if it will cut back on splash.

[Blader]

Well I have mine in the top and then a tube goes down to the bottom of the bubbler therefore what happens is the gas goes down to the bottom and then is forced to rise up through your water/stainless steel wool or bronze wool. This way it acts as a filter dryer and then you can use the side vent at top as you already have by ur picture...Good luck

[cabrera]

Well I have mine in the top and then a tube goes down to the bottom of the bubbler therefore what happens is the gas goes down to the bottom and then is forced to rise up through your water/stainless steel wool or bronze wool. This way it acts as a filter dryer and then you can use the side vent at top as you already have by ur picture...Good luck

I was trying to eliminate the down hose. I figured I would put the opening at the bottom so the gas would have to go through the vinegar (it cuts down on vapor) then above I have a fine mesh to prevent sloshing and in the cavity between the lid & the mesh I have it stuffed with fine bronze wool.

[keiththevp]

If you put it at the bottom or a tube when your cell cools it will suck the bubbler fluid into the main reservoir. Even if you use a check valve that valve WILL go bad, you just don't know exactly when. So instead build a double bubbler. Basically two of the pipes you have now, side by side, with a input on top left pipe, a connection between two bottoms and output to engine on top right pipe. Now when you fill the bubbler you will fill a little less then half in both pipes. The gas comes in from left pushes fluid out of left and into right pipe and starts bubbling. But when it cools you will always have enough room for the bubbler fluid to travel back to fill left pipe without going all the way back to your reservoir. This also eliminates the need for a vent on your reservoir. Hope that helps.

[cabrera]

If you put it at the bottom or a tube when your cell cools it will suck the bubbler fluid into the main reservoir. Even if you use a check valve that valve WILL go bad, you just don't know exactly when. .

I figured that the reservoir would suck the fluid back when the cell cools,
I did think of using a check valve but I've never too keen on the tiny check valves
http://i18.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/11/56/f737_35.JPG
They look kind of flimsy. I would trust them on a fish tank but on an HHO system???

Anyway, I was thinking of building the check valve in the below video.
Instead of an acrylic ball though I would look for a Teflon ball.
What do yo think?

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[biggy boy]

Thanks Andy for posting that video!!
That is one of the best DIY check valve vids Iv'e seen to date.


Glen

[cabrera]

Thanks Andy for posting that video!!
That is one of the best DIY check valve vids Iv'e seen to date.
Glen

That's what we're all here for, to share, build , and improve!:D

[keiththevp]

I have seen this video, and it is a great check valve. However, this is my approach to HHO. I build and sell units, so that being said I try to make as FEW moving or mechanical parts that can break and have very bad consequences. The electrolytes and heat will corrode (break down) the rubber in ANY check valve. This is also why I do not use dry cells. I don't care what anyone says EVERY dry cell leaks. Maybe not the first day or second or even the first six months. But trust me it will leak. For this reason I use nothing other than plastic and metal parts for my systems as well as solid state sensors that will break down no faster then the stainless steel plates, therefore giving a product that has very little maintenance and virtually no chance of malfunction. I have to make my units idiot proof, or you have the potential for disaster. The completely self contained unit that I make needs only two things Water and Windshield Washer Fluid. Everything else is built in and automatic for you.

So my advice is .... If you are going to build something like a check valve, just build the extra bubbler instead and then you will never have to worry about it.

[biggy boy]

I have seen this video, and it is a great check valve. However, this is my approach to HHO. I build and sell units, so that being said I try to make as FEW moving or mechanical parts that can break and have very bad consequences. The electrolytes and heat will corrode (break down) the rubber in ANY check valve. This is also why I do not use dry cells. I don't care what anyone says EVERY dry cell leaks. Maybe not the first day or second or even the first six months. But trust me it will leak. For this reason I use nothing other than plastic and metal parts for my systems as well as solid state sensors that will break down no faster then the stainless steel plates, therefore giving a product that has very little maintenance and virtually no chance of malfunction. I have to make my units idiot proof, or you have the potential for disaster. The completely self contained unit that I make needs only two things Water and Windshield Washer Fluid. Everything else is built in and automatic for you.

So my advice is .... If you are going to build something like a check valve, just build the extra bubbler instead and then you will never have to worry about it.

I totally under stand what you are saying! You build to sell to people that may or may not know what they are doing.
But here on this forum for most parts we do know what we are doing.
And for those of us that are building these cells for ourselves, we have more freedom to build those extra gadgets.... and use what we please at our own risk, knowing there might be need for repair and upkeep.

[Buster]

PVC, EPDM and even rubber are rated as having excellent resistance to KOH. I suspct your leaks are due to needing to tighten the seals, normally done in a compressed cell (drycell) by tightening the bolts which hold it together. We have found that resistance to electrolyte is not a problem long term. General shrinkage or 'flattening' of the gaskets is what can lead to leaks, but only takes a few minutes to solve by bolt tightening.
The benefits of a drycell far outweigh this slight inconvenience.

[keiththevp]

I totally under stand what you are saying! You build to sell to people that may or may not know what they are doing.
But here on this forum for most parts we do know what we are doing.
And for those of us that are building these cells for ourselves, we have more freedom to build those extra gadgets.... and use what we please at our own risk, knowing there might be need for repair and upkeep.

Why make something that needs constant maintenance when you can make the same thing with the same time and money that needs no maintenance? I understand this is a preference but making your life harder or more complicated doesn't make sense either. Instead of spending that time on maintenance you could spend it on innovation, design, and research. Just my 2 cents, everyone should do as they please!!

[keiththevp]

PVC, EPDM and even rubber are rated as having excellent resistance to KOH. I suspct your leaks are due to needing to tighten the seals, normally done in a compressed cell (drycell) by tightening the bolts which hold it together. We have found that resistance to electrolyte is not a problem long term. General shrinkage or 'flattening' of the gaskets is what can lead to leaks, but only takes a few minutes to solve by bolt tightening.
The benefits of a drycell far outweigh this slight inconvenience.

I understand the resistance to KOH and NaOH however that is not the problem. It is the constant hot and cold changes. Also, all I said is that it will leak, I did not say that you could not fix it by tightening the bolts. Again here we refer to maintenance. Why create extra maintenance when it is not needed. Just make an isolated series cell. Hey and then guess what? You solve all your heat problems as well, and your production increases with less plates. I just don't understand why people want to use old tech when they have the information out there to build the new.

[biggy boy]

I understand the resistance to KOH and NaOH however that is not the problem. It is the constant hot and cold changes. Also, all I said is that it will leak, I did not say that you could not fix it by tightening the bolts. Again here we refer to maintenance. Why create extra maintenance when it is not needed. Just make an isolated series cell. Hey and then guess what? You solve all your heat problems as well, and your production increases with less plates. I just don't understand why people want to use old tech when they have the information out there to build the new.

I'd love to see your new tech!
Can you show use some pictures of your setup, New and imporved it always good! Maybe a video too if you can!!!.

Thanks

Glen

[keiththevp]

It's not that new or a big deal, just a sealed cell with holes on the bottom and top between each gap like thecell.cc does or hhopwr on youtube. This solves all your heat problems, you use a concentration that does not freeze by the nature of the design, and you get better mmw due to less current leak, so what is not to like?