True Series Plate Electrolyzer

[cougar gt-e]

Howdy,

I built a small smack type unit and found that just dunking the 8 plates into a jug of fluid will create a small amount of hho gas and a large amount of heat. The outside plates are the only ones producing gas, the center plates are just expensive spacers as I made it.


Ok, but not so good. if you follow that!

Got some good advice from many and Stickittoopec in particular. Now I went and found a small sheet metal shop in town and got 8 4"x6" 304ss 20 ga plates and 2 4"x8" plates. Total outlay was 8 bucks. I like small town shops that root thru the drops and left overs from other projects!

My plan is to make a unit where the fluid between each plate is contained and not able to flow between each plate. That should force the current thru each cell individually and each should then produce gas. The effective voltage should also drop to 13.8v / 9 = 1.533 volts per cell which should really limit the production of heat and still produce gas. That's if I use all the plates and form 9 separate cells. If I use only 7 of the center plates, it would be the 13.8v / 8 = 1.725 volts per cell. My car normally runs at 13.8v when the battery is fully charged up by the way.


I do have some questions as I prepare for this build. Hopefully, people that have built real isolated cell series electrolyzers can answer them.

As each cell will be individual, how the heck do you keep them full?

After filling, if you over fill and top the center plates, I'm assuming that it will just run hot until it boils off enough fluid to drop the level where it will run true series. (Right?)

The internet sources say 1.2v is all you need, but more is better up to a point. So, should I initially target for all 10 plates (9 cells) at 1.53v or just 9 plates (8 cells) at 1.72v?

How much head room should I build for gas bubbling etc? I was thinking 12" total height (inside) and the 4" width. I'm guessing that's not a real important deal .... or is it?

As the only fluid reservoir will be between the plates, 1/8th inch seems pretty scant. I was thinking 1/4" or even up to 1/2". My smack-esque device was about 1/2" between - and + and it bubbled like mad. The electrolyzer will be just over 1.125" thick at 1/8" spacing, 2.25 at 1/4" and 4.5" at 1/2". There isn't much volume for the fluid. About .2 liter, .4 liter or .8 liter depending on spacing. Again, I'm assuming that just increasing the caustic content will overcome the bigger spacing by making the liquid more conductive.

Sorry, lots of ramble there. comments greatly welcome.

I'll try and take some pics as it progresses. I have some major tractor work this weekend so no promises.


Thanks in advance,
Packer Fan
(Brett, just shaddup and play!)

[EltonBrandd]

It sounds like you have made en error with smack booster. If properly built the inner plates will produce gas. The only part that of the plates the produce gas are the ones facing each other. If the plates are not straight or if they are mounted offset the current will leak out. Thats why most people wrap their plates with shrink wrap. My smack's cell produces 1.1lpm with 30 gauge plates (cut by hand). I would recommend using the switch plate covers, its the only way to ensure the plates are exactly the same size and that they all will have the same clearance. If you are interested in making a true series cell with isolated plates here is a link that covers it pretty well. http://hhoinfo.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2068750%3ATopic%3A9124
These guys are a lot more educated, you will gain a ton of info by just reading old threads and news too.

[cougar gt-e]

Thanks for the link!

Error? Who me? More likely a F-up in my case! The switch plates were NOT wrapped with anything so current did leak out. Oh well. The new set up will have about 3x the surface area so should have potential for higher production rates. Should be all to the good.

[stickittoopec]

cugar
I wouldn't go over 7cells (8 plates) 3/16” without testing it first in a temporary setup. Also the people who make the Browns Gas welders say it should be closer to 1/8” spaceing. I figure if they can make a machine that can cut and weld with water they know a lot more than I do. You also want to test the output of your alternator while under a load to see what voltage it puts out while loaded up. Some alternators drop voltage when under load.
I was building a unit to work on a motor cycle or small car while I was talking with someone about a welding job (3/8” angle to ½” inch plate) and while I was cutting the spacers I cut them 3/8” not the 3/16” I intended. I caught it about half way through the build. While testing the unit, it did not perform as well as it should have. It was making slightly under a liter a minute at 14 amps. It should have done better. So I cut the top off to use it as a demo to show people how a series cell works. If you are interested I will put a small video together to show you how it works, voltage readings and all.

[Smith03Jetta]

The cutting torch guys don't need the narrow gaps that the car guys need to produce HHO. They are using higher voltage so they don't need the smaller gaps that we have. If they put their plates as close together as I did and used a welding machine or 120+ volts to power it, it would boil the water. Probably without much or any electrolyte.

[timetowinarace]

I like your design plan. I've been wanting to get reports from someone who's tried it. I'll be looking forward to your results. I havn't built one but hope I can help answer some questions.

How to keep it full? First off, I'd keep the 1/8" spacing. If you use larger spacing you will need more voltage to 'push' a current through it. Even with a higher catalyst consentration. One possibility to keep it full is to put a small pvc or other pipe across the top/inside of the cell with little holes drilled in it. Use a small pump to pump water into it.

I would assume the water level would eventually drop on it's own if overfilled. I don't think it would be to hard to put a water level sensor in the unit, probably just one from a window washer fluid container. The pump too, for that matter.

I would recomend 6 cells, 7 at the most. Electrolysis begins at 1.2V. Production increases as voltage increases up to 2V. After 2V production does not increase. In my opinion, it is unwize for a homebuilder to drop voltage across plates to less than 2V. Unless parts are machined and perfect, one section of the unit that is different from the rest will affect the rest a great deal.

[cougar gt-e]

I'm in a data constricted area (dial up), so please no videos. They absolutely kill my system, can't even turn them off sometimes and have to shut down. I know, how '80's! We even watch TV from rabbit ears! Primitive. primitive primitive. But cheap!

I have looked at some information on electrolysis where the H's are generated separately from the O's. I think Dennis provided the link. It's 2 cylinders with one electrode in each and a tube connecting them. Actually, come to think of it, there was a NOVA show on German WW2 nuke tech where they were using electrolysis to make heavy water. (ok, they didn't "make" it, the heavy water electrolyzes slower so over time the residual water is heavy water rich). Any way, the water was super caustic and the separation was in feet.

I'll be sure to test out different separations before committing with weld! I learned that lesson welding steel... It's easier to mock up and check it out than to grind it out and do over!

Keep the ideas / comments / criticism coming -- it's all good.

Packer Fan


TImetowinarace, Ok, easy to start with fewer and go up!