i have a heat/orange sludge problem

[Helz_McFugly]

Im running a 10 plate 6" x 2.5" 116L SS cell -nn+nn-nn+ . Its pumping out about 1 LPM depending on the heat (when its boiling it pumping out 2 LPM)and KOH mixture. I normally mix 1.5 tea spoons of KOH in my water, it hold about 3/4 of a gallon the way I have it set up. its almost lie a dry cell. never get over 15 amps. using 8awg wire. my water gets orange after about 1.5 hours and it gots to boiling after about 30 minutes. Ive lowered my KOH but my LPMgoes down to .5 lpm. so where the sludge coming from and whats the deal with the heat.

I had made a video of what it use to look like but Ive changed it. the cell chamber is totally sumurged and the bubbler set up a littlehigher so it keep the cell full and circulates the water throughout the cell and bubbler like a dry cell would. I got just as hot the other way I had it hooked up as well. would a PWm reslove my heat issue. and being Im using 8awg wire is there a PWM that would work with that thick og wire.

and whats the deal with the orangeish red crap? I use distilled water (some ive bought, some ive made) and KOH only. I also tried sodium hydroxide too. same results. hell I started off with baking soda and its starting to turn orange as fast as soda and look like that stuff did. :confused:

[Roland Jacques]

You have to use more Neutrals between your electrodes. Your goal voltage is 2 to 2.6 volts across each plate. Your is like 6.8 volts. That high of voltage make excessive HEAT and not as much HHO. Have at least 4 neutrals between electrodes.

Some of the most efficient electrolyser's have 6 neutrals. They use full 28%concentration of KOH, 2.8 lbs per 10 pounds of water. and never get hotter than 120 degrees Fahrenheit.

The red sludge may be Rust from poor quality SS.

[Helz_McFugly]

ok cool so I have +nn-nn+nn-

so Ive got 6 plates cut with no L on top. just 6" x 2.5"
and 4 cut with the extra 1"x1.5" on top for the bolt.
+nnn-nnn+ or should i go -nnn+nnn- from wat ive seen the first one would work better.
would that be better? ide lose a plate and can order more but they take 2 weeks to get here. but for now, sould i got with +nnn-nnn+ ?

[Philldpapill]

Roland is right... The red/orange sludge sounds like rust building up in the water. If your plates are already SS, then you you've got to have some other iron in your cell somewhere... Maybe some bolts holding the thing together?

As for the heat - excessive heat is ALWAYS caused by a high current density or high voltage drop, but they kind of go hand in hand. As for using a PWM, you really should use one. You don't need a special PWM to fit the low AWG wire - just solder on some 12AWG to your AWG, and connect the 12AWG to the PWM.

Just a small tip... To make your cell a little more efficient - on top of using a PWM - add a good quality high capacity, high current capacitor in parallel with your cell. It helps provide a smoother output voltage to the cell, so you don't get HUGE peak currents. This way, you can effectively decrease the voltage per cell as well, resulting in less heat.

[Helz_McFugly]

is 316L still the SS of choice? which is what i have btw.

[Helz_McFugly]

add a good quality high capacity, high current capacitor in parallel with your cell
great idea. I can do that today and reconfig my lil cell
everything is SS, bolts and all. i do have a copple copper fittings that the water runs through but that turned black a while back where the water touches them, should i replace them with plastic or does it matter and the copper? Ive see poeple use copper pipe on their rigs which is why I didnt think it would cause corrosion like im getting.

[Philldpapill]

If your copper is turning black, then that says it is conducting some current for some reason.(?) It may not be, but that's usually what happens when it is acting as an anode(i.e. is connected to a + voltage source somewhere).

As for the capacitor, don't use some dinky small one. You really should use a cap that has screw terminals and NOT the tiny PCB leads on it. If you are only pulling 15A, 3 or 4 of the PCB leaded caps might do, but they'll probably get pretty warm. Also, typically, you need about 1,000uF for every amp you are drawing, for adequate votlage stablizing. Again, if you are only pulling 15A, 10,000uF would probably be ok for now.

When considering a capacitor for this, you have to remember - you aren't just hitting it with high currents ONE time per cycle, but twice. The capacitor discharges at high currents, then re-charges with high currents, too. That means these things are really taking a beating as far as high current goes. You can get some capacitors that are rated for this sort of thing. They typically have low ESR(Equivalent Series Resistance) which is kind of like a resistor in series with it.

Actually, you're just over in Dallas, Helz! Howdy Neighbor! Mouser has a huge variety of caps, and they are just over in mansfield so you could probably pick them up if you live on the west side of Dallas or close by. Here is a good one that should suite you: http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/36DE103G040AM2A/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtjXoiUFBEm5bLdyQcUj1pjM%2fzDhC1WShs% 3d

[Helz_McFugly]

I got rid of the orange sludge. I had 2 bolts that were not SS. they said they were but the magnet said different. I bought the cell from a place in the Ukrain. the only thing that was legit about the cell were the plates. all bolts were not pure SS. so that was my prob. a quick run to lowes, with magnet in hand, fixed that.
I also reduced my heat by setting my cell like this +nnn-nnn+
its still giving me 1 LPM and tops heat out at about 140 or 150.

I really need to find a place around DFW that can cut me some 316L SS plates.

know anyone local Phill? im in Forney. east of Dallas. Im not sure what to look for in the phone directory.
EDIT: Phill, nevermind about the steal cutting place in DFW. Ive decieded Im going to buy Smacks gen 4 dry cell. Im not sure about that smack dude but I like that cell and its priced nice so im going to buy it. Hell bob boyce designed the thing any how, smack just made an adjustment to the filler hose. smack is just building them for a good price.

[biggy boy]

How about this place. It does small cuts of flat stainless.

http://www.metals4u.com/index.html

Glen

[Helz_McFugly]

well after visiting smacks site Im just going to buy his 4th gen dry cell. its only $295 delivered and assembled by sh1thead himself. :D Ive already made an awesome bubbler/reservoir because I made my bath cell into kinda like a dry cell. Ill make a lil video and show yas what I did to it this weekend.

[Roland Jacques]

That smack cell is a good choice.

I do know that copper breaks down in alkaline solutions. Through a penny in a small saltwater aquarium, corals, inverts, and fish could die in a short time. I am wondering about the copper in the solution, can it also raise the conductivity of your solution.
I would think it would. Humm:rolleyes: copper sulphate as an electrolyte?

[redrat100]

well after visiting smacks site Im just going to buy his 4th gen dry cell...

Well, that is one way to get rid of the orange sludge. Replace the cell, why not? As Phil mentioned, adding neutral plates will reduce the plate gap voltage. My old dry cell was 25 plates -5n+5n-5n+5n-. Alternator voltage is 13.8v/5 neutral plates =2.76v per gap. It pulled 15a and put out 1 lpm. Temp never exceeded 160F or so after an hour commute.

Yes, SS alloy 316 is still the best for the low budget builder. There are some really fancy alloys but they would break my piggy so I have not tried them. Something else that reduces the orange goo is conditioning the plates before assembly. It entails acid etching the plates before hand. I use a vinegar dip for a few days. Others have used pool acid.

The best way is to passivate the plates in a nitric acid bath to remove the free iron after fabrication. Here is a good explanation:

http://www.iftworldwide.com/solutions/passivation.htm

[redrat100]

... i do have a copple copper fittings that the water runs through but that turned black a while back where the water touches them, should i replace them with plastic or does it matter and the copper? .

Yes. Use plastic wherever possible. I toyed with using pure copper plates. I figured that they were a better conductor than 316. I never got to run the cell because after two days of just sitting in a NaOh solution the copper had turned completely black. And the solution had a blueish tint to it. After reading up on it I discovered that copper is very reactive to alkali solutions like NaOh and KOh. Eventually the solution would eat the copper away.

[Helz_McFugly]

yea Ive taken my entire system out tonight to better restrain it in its place and clean it out and get better hoses. I was using that clear 5/8 hose. Im going to go with good oll 1/4 black hot water radiator hose, this clea stuff flows and stretches after a while. Im also going to replace all the copper with plastic. I also reconfigured my cell tonight like this +nnnnnnnn- and increased the koh only to find it produced about 1/3 LPM at 20 amps and got uber hot so Im going back with my old config which was +nnn-I-nnn+ I being a 1/4" dividing sheet of plexiglass. it was getting 1LPM at about a temp of 150at 15 amps. not to bad as far as im concerned. and after getting all the NON SS nuts and bolts out I got rid of the orange crud.