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ramcustom
08-21-2009, 10:46 AM
Has anyone tried the ZeroHydroFuel enhancer or the Volo FS1 fuel saver and with what results? Are they a waste of money?

biggy boy
08-21-2009, 08:25 PM
I just received my Volo FS1 in the mail today.
But I won't be hooking it up until at least two more days.
I'm still doing mileage baseline testing plus I just started using Acetone
in my gas tank two days ago. I want to run another hundred miles to get a good mileage reading before installing the FS1.

Glen

ramcustom
08-23-2009, 01:57 PM
Let us know what the results are. why the acetone? Is this inplace of HHO?

biggy boy
08-23-2009, 06:07 PM
Let us know what the results are. why the acetone? Is this inplace of HHO?

The acetone is supposed to break the surface tension of the gasoline.
This in turn supposedly allows the gas to vaporize easier and allows the gas to be more burnable.
You can use it on it's own or with HHO.

The ratio is maximum 3 OZ to every 10 US gallons of gas.
For Gas that contains 10% Ethanol they recommend adding also 3 OZ of Xylene
per 10 US gallons.

Acetone is relatively harmless, but Xylene is nasty stuff!!

I'll update my millage findings with the DFS1 in about four days. I put it in last night before going out.
I've been recording my mileage on an Excel spread sheet. So I will have before and after numbers.

ramcustom
08-28-2009, 10:18 AM
just looked on the VOlo site and I see where they have FS1 fuel saver and a FS2 fuel saver which is specifically for HHO vehicles. Which did you get FS1 or FS2?

biggy boy
08-28-2009, 11:08 AM
That burns my A$$ I just got a FS1 from them last week to use for HHO
I even told them I was using it for HHO.
I wish Dan had told me to hold off and wait of the FS2.
We are talking a week differens here! from when I ordered it and they placed the new one on their site.

ramcustom
08-28-2009, 07:25 PM
i don't know what the difference between the 2 is. I see the FS2 is more expensive. I emailed them 3 days ago asking questions and have no reply. I wonder how reputable they are? Did you actually talk to someone and if so whats their phone number? Any results you can share yet?

biggy boy
08-28-2009, 07:38 PM
No, no phone number for them.
just talked to them via Email.

I got an Email from Dan the owner today, from my email I sent about 3-4 days ago. So you should be getting a reply from him soon.

I want to get the FS2 now!

I installed the FS1 on Saturday the 21 of Aug.
I have put on about about 250 miles and am seeing a 13% improvement in mileage, so not bad for $59.00 plus shipping.

He told me as long as you keep up the maintenance of the vehicle the mileage
will still improve.

I'm happy with the FS1 I just wish I knew about the FS2

Go back and read the description of the two over several times and you will see what the differences are.

Glen

ramcustom
08-28-2009, 08:48 PM
What is the production of your HHO per minute? Do you use an efie also?

biggy boy
08-28-2009, 08:57 PM
What is the production of your HHO per minute? Do you use an efie also?

I'm still building the cell.
With the FS1 and FS2 you should not need an EFIE or any other enhancer.
Right now I am taking baseline mileage with and without the FS1

So that 13% inprovement in MPG is just with the FS1 not bad for a $59.00 investment.

So I'm hoping to get even better mileage once I introduce the HHO.
The cell I'm building is an 19 plate dry cell. Three, six cell units in parallel
with a PWM should get over 2L/minute at like around 25-30 amps or more.
It's a BB Stack style cell. 8" X 10"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyMA7x2wfV0&feature=PlayList&p=AFE0C21ED792D60B&index=0&playnext=1

Helz_McFugly
08-31-2009, 06:37 PM
I ordered my Volo fs2 today. Ill have results soon

biggy boy
08-31-2009, 07:15 PM
I ordered my Volo fs2 today. Ill have results soon

OK it will be interesting to see what the results are.
Dan the owner suggests an O2 sensor EFIE is not needed for use with the FS1 /2.
But at another forum I frequent, the one guy that has used several of the FS1 units, states to get more then a 30% increase in mileage improvements with HHO and the FS1, you need to use an digital O2 sensor EFIE he claims to be getting up to 60% improvement.!?!?

It a funny thread, cuz at the beginning of the thread he was dead set against such a device, now thou he uses them for all his HHo installs.
He even has an expensive software ECU programmer to do custom programs, but it appears he just uses the Volo chips instead now.

Here's the link:
http://pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php?topic=169.0

biggy boy
08-31-2009, 09:01 PM
Cool just got an Email from Dan at Volo he will upgrade the FS1 to a FS2
Via a credit towards the purchase if I return the FS1.

Glen

Helz_McFugly
09-04-2009, 09:54 PM
I got my Zolo FS2. I hooked my 02 sensors back up before I installed it and reset my ECM. Its only 4 wires, 2 of which are power and ground. So its hooked up and Ive filled my gas tank up and will have an update soon. I really wish it would tell us exactly what its doing. If I knew exactly what its doing I would know if I still need a EFIE for my 02's. Im going to send them an email and ask what it does as far as what its soft flashing the ECM with. Im guessing im still going to need an EFIE for my 02's but here hoping I dont. It would be nice to only have this one little device telling my ECM not to richen my fuel ratio and not having to have one for each sensor.

Roland Jacques
09-04-2009, 10:43 PM
I got my Zolo FS2. I hooked my 02 sensors back up before I installed it and reset my ECM. Its only 4 wires, 2 of which are power and ground. So its hooked up and Ive filled my gas tank up and will have an update soon. I really wish it would tell us exactly what its doing. If I knew exactly what its doing I would know if I still need a EFIE for my 02's. Im going to send them an email and ask what it does as far as what its soft flashing the ECM with. Im guessing im still going to need an EFIE for my 02's but here hoping I dont. It would be nice to only have this one little device telling my ECM not to richen my fuel ratio and not having to have one for each sensor.

The HHO vendors that also sell this FS2 say no O2 efies needed. hope to have mine soon.

Helz_McFugly
09-05-2009, 06:21 PM
I ran it with the Volo FS2 and the HHO on for 100 miles. about 75% highway, 25% city. I got 21 MPG's
so it is doing something because if I was to run it with the HHO on and the 02's plugged in I would get about 15 MPG's. I may run another 100 miles or so like it is and see if it "learns" a little more as I drive more and then I might run it with the HHO off and see what I get. Ill check back later

Boltazar
09-06-2009, 09:31 PM
An HP Tuner program will tell you what the volo is doing at any moment in real time.

Helz_McFugly
09-06-2009, 10:27 PM
Boltazar, do you have or plan on getting a Volo FS2?

Im going to go to my friends garage and have him hook up his tuner and see what its doing. I plan on getting a OBD2 to usb so i can watch what its doing on my laptop as i drive, but that will come later. The zolo FS2 isnt plugged into the OBD2 plug. its tapped into the OBD wires just like the FS1 would be so it leaves the OBD2 plug available which I like. I thought it might plug in but i dont know why I would have thought that being that not all cars have the same ports in the 16 port OBD2 plug populated. durrr

Boltazar
09-06-2009, 10:49 PM
Helz, I just sent volo a few questions via e-mail before I buy one. I'd love to know how it changes the tables. Please keep me posted. P

Helz_McFugly
09-06-2009, 11:11 PM
yea so did I about a week ago and have yet to receive a responce.

biggy boy
09-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Yes he is slow to reply to Emails, usually takes 2-3 days.
From my experience he doesn't reply on weekends either.
But he has replied to all of mine so far.

Helz_McFugly
09-08-2009, 07:21 PM
got Volo's email responce. all it said was, leave all you sensors plugged in and your HHO on for it to work correctly.

Boltazar
09-08-2009, 07:47 PM
I don't mean to sound like a smart ass but what did you ask them?

Helz_McFugly
09-08-2009, 11:01 PM
RE: installing the FS2Tuesday, September 8, 2009 5:32 PM
From: "Volo Performance" <danny@voloperformance.com>Add sender to ContactsTo: "'helz mcfugly'" <helz_mcfugly@yahoo.com>Helz,

You'll need to reconnect these sensors in order for the FS2 to function properly. Then, make sure the HHO generator is powered on and running during calibration. Thanks!



Dan

Sales & Installation

www.VoloPerformance.com



We hope you had a great Labor Day weekend!







From: helz mcfugly [mailto:helz_mcfugly@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:14 AM
To: sales@voloperformance.com
Subject: installing the FS2



as of right now I am running my car with an HHO generator on it and have the 02 sensors unplugged and a 29 amp resister replacing the MAF. I need to know which sensors the Vole chip is compesating for and if it changes timing. should I plug everything back in and reset my ECM and run the car for a few miles so the ECM relearns the car so its back to normal then hook up the FS2 and lastly turn on HHO? or is there another way of going at it? what the best process and what exactly is the Volo doing to the ECM?



Helz

hhonewbie
09-09-2009, 03:47 PM
Does the FS2 work and will it work on all ECM/EFI vehicals?
Can it be controlled to vary +- MPG gain or is it just set to gain what ever MPG gain is programmed on chip?

biggy boy
09-09-2009, 03:56 PM
It will work on any vehicle that is listed on there drop down selector box at the sellers web site.

No it is not adjustable it comes pre programmed for the vehicle you specify.

http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.net/fs2hhoedition.html

I have the FS1 and have an FS2 on the way.

Helz_McFugly
09-09-2009, 09:27 PM
My VOLO FS2 is slowly creeping my MPGs up. Im now getting about 25. I should have my new cell done by the end of next week and it should produce about 2 to 2.5 LPM. which is about right for my 3.5L V6. So at 2k rpms and a 15:1, lets just say the VOLO is puting in there give or take, fuel mixture im taking in 3267 liters of air per minute. so in every combustion stroke im using .000765 of a liter of HHO. so .005% of that 15 is HHO. I think thats plenty enough to increase efficiency. as long as that VOLO is controling my sensors correctly.

biggy boy
09-09-2009, 10:17 PM
My VOLO FS2 is slowly creeping my MPGs up. Im now getting about 25.

COOL:cool:

Hey Helz did you pull the resistor off your MAF jack and plug it back in?

Glen

Helz_McFugly
09-09-2009, 10:58 PM
yea I sure did. I also reset my ECM and let the VOLO recalibrate.

biggy boy
09-09-2009, 11:25 PM
yea I sure did. I also reset my ECM and let the VOLO recalibrate.

OK, thats what I thought.
Your signature;) still states you have the resistor in. :)

Glen

ramcustom
09-10-2009, 08:18 AM
How did you reset the ECU? i have a Ford focus and just ordered the FS2. Hope to get it next week.

biggy boy
09-10-2009, 10:16 AM
How did you reset the ECU? i have a Ford focus and just ordered the FS2. Hope to get it next week.

You don't normaly have to reset the ECU if you are installing the FS2.

He is doing it because he had several of his sensor disconected.

You can reset the ECU by disconnecting the car battery for About 20 minutes.
Or by removing the fuse that feeds power to the ECU.

Dan at Volo told me it is not nessesary to reset the ECU.

Sorry about the spelling, this computer does not have spell check :p

Glen

biggy boy
09-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Is this measured by the ODB2 gauge or real consumption at the gas station?

When using the actual consumption method, by seeing how many gal./ltrs
to fill. It's only accurate if you fill up at the same pump each time.
I have found myself, depending on were I fill up as much as a gallon or two difference. Even if I use the same island same side from one pump to the one in front of it, it makes a gallon diffence.
This is due to how level or not my truck is sitting on the pad. At one pump it's level, move the truck up to the next pump and my front wheels are off the pad and the truck is tilted and the nozzel shuts of sooner.

This was driving me nuts at first, thinking my mileage was going down then up then down each time I filled and didn't use the same pump.

Glen

Helz_McFugly
09-10-2009, 05:56 PM
MY EMAIL:
I have installed the Volo FS2 on my 08 Dodge Charger. what is it doing to the ECM? is it compensating for 02, MAF, MAP sensors? and is it changing the timing at all? I dont have a dyno right now. If I knew exactly what it was doing it would give me a better idea of what else I can do to help make my car mo efficient with the HHO

THEIR RESPONCE:
The FS2 will measure inputs from multiple sensors including MAP/MAF and O2, and adjust timing and fuel delivery. Thanks!

Dan
Sales & Installation
www.VoloPerformance.com
We hope you had a great Labor Day weekend!

Helz_McFugly
09-10-2009, 05:58 PM
Is this measured by the ODB2 gauge or real consumption at the gas station?

I do the math.

ALSO I fill up at the same gas station and try to hit the same pump every time just to be safe.

Roland Jacques
09-10-2009, 07:36 PM
When using the actual consumption method, by seeing how many gal./ltrs
to fill. It's only accurate if you fill up at the same pump each time.
I have found myself, depending on were I fill up as much as a gallon or two difference. Even if I use the same island same side from one pump to the one in front of it, it makes a gallon diffence.
This is due to how level or not my truck is sitting on the pad. At one pump it's level, move the truck up to the next pump and my front wheels are off the pad and the truck is tilted and the nozzel shuts of sooner.

This was driving me nuts at first, thinking my mileage was going down then up then down each time I filled and didn't use the same pump.

Glen

Yep, a pump can be 5% off before they legaly have to be adjusted. At least in GA.
So that means your refills could be up to 10% off on pumps that are within limits. not to mention the other stuff you mentioned

Roland Jacques
09-18-2009, 08:18 PM
I'll be hooking up my FS2 on my GMC 1ton van tomorrow. I'm Not to hopeful that it will change the MPG. because the shape my engine is in is pretty bad, but ill give it a try anyway.

2001 GMC Savanna 1 ton Box Van,
Weight 9000Lbs, 9 feet tall with a 12 foot long box.
MPG 9.4 average lately (Use to be close to 12MPG)
I blew the head gasket (repaired with Blue devil stop leak stuff)
One cylinder fouls the plug and burns a quart of oil every 500 miles:(
220,000 miles on engine (basically needs a new motor)
No HHO
I suspect the O2 sensor is bad :confused:

Anyway I'll reset the CPU, change the plug, install the chip, drive 100 miles, top it off and see what i get.

Helz_McFugly
09-18-2009, 08:40 PM
thats huge. I know the Volo fs2 does something or Ide be losing MPGs because I have all my sensors all hooked up and im getting a 6 MPG gain with my system. as you can see from my signiture. when they were all hooked up and i had my hho on with no VOLO I lost about 5 MPGs

biggy boy
09-18-2009, 09:39 PM
thats huge. I know the Volo fs2 does something or Ide be losing MPGs because I have all my sensors all hooked up and im getting a 6 MPG gain with my system. as you can see from my signiture. when they were all hooked up and i had my hho on with no VOLO I lost about 5 MPGs
Glad to hear your gains are holding!
Have you desided about buying the dry cell yet?

Helz_McFugly
09-18-2009, 10:44 PM
im actually making a small one tonight out of the plates i have for my bath cell. Ive torn it down and my plates are 6" tall 2.5" wide and have a hole at the top and bottom, that were for the bolts to hold it together but they are in perfect placement. I have 4 plates with rased tabs to bolt power to and 6 N plates. im thinking I+NNN-I-NNN+I (I = 1/2 inch plexy). like having 2 small dry cells side by side. and Im using that clear stuff Smack uses for his gaskets, that sh1t that hangs in freezer doors. its like a little over 1/16" thick.

But yea in the long run Im going to have a 6x6 cell made. I think I like busters Idea the best.

biggy boy
09-19-2009, 01:43 PM
im actually making a small one tonight out of the plates i have for my bath cell. Ive torn it down and my plates are 6" tall 2.5" wide and have a hole at the top and bottom, that were for the bolts to hold it together but they are in perfect placement. I have 4 plates with rased tabs to bolt power to and 6 N plates. im thinking I+NNN-I-NNN+I (I = 1/2 inch plexy). like having 2 small dry cells side by side. and Im using that clear stuff Smack uses for his gaskets, that sh1t that hangs in freezer doors. its like a little over 1/16" thick.

But yea in the long run Im going to have a 6x6 cell made. I think I like busters Idea the best.

Cool!
Yes I'm using the curtain material also.
I was fortunate enough to find a big sheet of SS that they had thrown out at work. It was a kick plate off of a big walk in freezer.

Helz_McFugly
09-19-2009, 05:29 PM
cutting these gaskets out of this curtain silicon is a pain. Im having to make 11 of them and im only on #4 ugg.. Ill have it together before the nights over. i cant wait to test it and make a lil video to show ya how small it is. I hope I get more then 1LPM being its the same plates that I was using in my wet cell that was making 1LPM

biggy boy
09-19-2009, 05:40 PM
cutting these gaskets out of this curtain silicon is a pain. Im having to make 11 of them and im only on #4 ugg.. Ill have it together before the nights over. i cant wait to test it and make a lil video to show ya how small it is. I hope I get more then 1LPM being its the same plates that I was using in my wet cell that was making 1LPM

LOL Try cutting like 23 of them suckers.
I used an exacto knife and one of the plates as the guide.

benben01
09-21-2009, 10:46 PM
Newbie here.. Just installed my FS2 this past weekend. However, unlike Helz, my MPG has dropped. However, I will be putting some miles on the CX-9 tomorrow and will see if it will improve. My baseline without HHO is 17-18 mpg highway and city combined.

single bubbler before the upgrade to twins:
http://i27.tinypic.com/nw6k2.jpg

9 plate dry cell:
http://i30.tinypic.com/bgp6l2.jpg

inline cooper cooler:
http://i29.tinypic.com/9bcitw.jpg

jerrygoldsmith
09-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Could it be the unit is not functioning properly? Granted, there are so many vehicle types and ways to set this up I suppose that's part of the risk.
that's a lot of money to some of us to risk getting if its not going to actually help...

Would it help if you unhooked your battery for a bit and let your computer reset in general?

benben01
09-21-2009, 11:00 PM
I will be putting about 200+ miles tomorrow doing mostly highway driving. If that doesn't help, I will reset the ECU and let the FS2 recalibrate again. However, according to Volo, I shouldn't have to reset the ECU as all my sensors are intact. Only thing I did yesterday was removing the O2 extenders I had on there. Right after that, I reset the FS2 and let it "recalibrate". Tomorrow will be a good test. By the way, I only have about 11K on my CX-9.

Roland Jacques
09-22-2009, 08:28 AM
Did you resit the Volo?

Personally id run it without HHO for a few hundred miles, just to get a base line, for just the chip.

jerrygoldsmith
09-22-2009, 01:27 PM
Did you resit the Volo?

Personally id run it without HHO for a few hundred miles, just to get a base line, for just the chip.

If the chip needs recorded info pre-hho, they should have more info on the chip available, showing what it uses and can use to establish its information.

Helz_McFugly
09-22-2009, 04:45 PM
yea I agree they should tell more about how it works. jsut telling me it takes reading from all my sensors and tells the ECM to set the timing and fuel output, isnt enough info for me. I ran for about 200 miles without HHO whith the ZOLO still on and I went back to 19MPG. now that I have my HHO back on its back up to 25. I have all my sensors plugged in and nothing altered. Im also going into a vacuum with my HHO now as well. I really want to get to a dyno so i can see what its doing. if its retarding timing and adjusting fuel ratio thats awesome, but if its jsut flashing the ECM with the same jargen every 30 seconds, I could get better results with EFIE's or an AFC. well im amost positive I could get better results with an AFC.

Buster
09-22-2009, 07:02 PM
I'm considering getting either the VOLO or the AFC which Richard suggested.
I suppose the questions I've got are:

1/ What are the general % improvements with either of them?

2/ How difficult are they both to set up?

benben01
09-22-2009, 07:22 PM
Did my 200+ mile highway run today.... Results are sad.. very sad.... Barely cracked 18MPG with FS2 and HHO. To be honest, I got better MPGs without the FS2. Resetting the ECU as we speak. Just wish Danny from Volo would reply to my emails.

biggy boy
09-22-2009, 07:37 PM
I'm considering getting either the VOLO or the AFC which Richard suggested.
I suppose the questions I've got are:

1/ What are the general % improvements with either of them?

2/ How difficult are they both to set up?

The volo is easy to set up just four wires that crimp on the the wires at the OBDII plug at your feet.

If I had the money I think I would go with the AFC?
I would think it would be nice to have more control over the fuel injection.

biggy boy
09-22-2009, 07:56 PM
Did my 200+ mile highway run today.... Results are sad.. very sad.... Barely cracked 18MPG with FS2 and HHO. To be honest, I got better MPGs without the FS2. Resetting the ECU as we speak. Just wish Danny from Volo would reply to my emails.

He's a week behind on his Email responses.

ramcustom
09-22-2009, 08:10 PM
What is the AFC that you are referring to?? Is it better than the VOLO.So far I have see NO improvement with the VOLO. The AFR according to my ScanGauge stays at 14.6 until it goes ito open loop and then it goes to 13.8. That 14.6 with or without the VOLO!

benben01
09-22-2009, 08:51 PM
AFC stands for air fuel controller. Apex'i is the maker of the unit. In the early 90s it's was a cheap and effective tuning device to dial in the correct AFR to make an some HP especially if you are running boost. ECU in newer cars are too smart for the AFC. If you try to lean it out, it will compensate and enrich the mixture.

Helz_McFugly
09-22-2009, 10:59 PM
even though Im getting slight gains with the volo rather then a loss, as I did when I ran my HHO and nothing else. Im still not happy with it because Im in the dark as to what its doing. As far as the lights flickering, sending data and what not, it does the same thing when the car is off as it does when its running. i.e the datta light flickering every 30 seconds or so, even when I come out in the morning and look min the window, its in there talking to its self. So Im guessing its not sending data when it sees changes in the ECM. its just flashing it with something every 30 seconds. my guess, its soft flashing to the ecm every 30 or so seconds to a set configuration that would work with x amount of hho in your system. maybe my HHO output is what it was configured for?? maybe?? hell if i know. like I said, he wont answer the question "what exactly is it reading and sending?"

benben01
09-23-2009, 09:20 AM
I am with you Helz. I don't even know if the FS2 is even working properly on my CX9. Just like you, the data light flashes even when the engine is off. When it's running, it's not dynamic like it's advertised. Since I reset my ECU last night, I am gonna run another couple of hundred miles with HHO and FS2. If I do not see any improvements, I am going to diable HHO and run with FS2 only and see what happens.

Helz_McFugly
09-23-2009, 10:24 PM
Ben, whats the output of that electrolyzer and how are the plates configured? how hot does it get? I wouldnt think you would need a cooling coil for one that small. Im willing to bet with its current configuration of the plates its very inefficient. Ya might be able to take it apart and reconfigure it to be more efficient, (ie less amps = less draw on your alternator) and still produce the same ammount of HHO.

Roland Jacques
09-23-2009, 10:33 PM
If the chip needs recorded info pre-hho, they should have more info on the chip available, showing what it uses and can use to establish its information.

No that was not my point. My point was just to know what the Volo does by itself, Run just it for a few hundred miles. Then when your happy (Or not) knowing the FS is working. Then add HHO, and track what happens.

Personaly im running 3 tank full before i thnik about turning HHO on.

benben01
09-23-2009, 10:37 PM
Sup Helz! My setup is in a 4x4 configuration with 9 stainless plates. I have an inline cooler in place and it's running at a cool temp. I know cuz my amp meter is holding steady @ 16-18 amp range. I didn't build the kit from scratch and bought it as complete kit from alternativempg.com. According to J. Miller, the owner of alternativempg, at that particular current, I should be producing 1-1.5 LPM. So I am on target with the kit's output. After my ecu reset from last night, I did notice an improvement just by looking at the fuel gauge. Today, I did about 100 miles (60% hwy and 40% city/suburb) and only consumed about a 1/4 tank. That's an improvement from yesterday where a 100 hwy miles consumed a 1/4 tank. Hopefully the combination of ECU and FS2 reset will start to work.

Helz_McFugly
09-23-2009, 10:39 PM
I ran mine 200 miles with HHO off and it went back to around 19 MPGs' I filled up same pump I always use, when I took my system out for a rebuild, then filled back up, same pump, after I reinstalled and before I turned it back on. Im sure the guy at the gas station questions why I wait for that pump. Har!

Helz_McFugly
09-23-2009, 11:00 PM
yea youre on target with output BUT IF it were mine Ide rip it apart and set it up like this +nnn-nnn+. but thats jsut me. Im not sure how its setup. probably +n-n+n-n+? if so you could make it pull less amps and get the same amount of HHO and have less draw on your alternator. I bet if you ran this test you would notice the draw it has on your alt. start the car with the HHO off. then turn the HHO on. youll notice the draw it has. 13.8v / 18 amps has a bite on that lil alternator. with no PWM youre controlling your amps with your electrolyt mixture. If you set it up with more N's between the + and - and mix a little more electrolytes in there it wont draw so many amps and inturn less draw on the alt. inturn better MPG's

my cell is setup like this +nnn-I-nnn+ ( The I is a full gasket, its pretty much like having 2 +nnn- electrolyzers and it runs at about 100 f and puts out about 1.5 LPM and its only 6"x2.5" pulling about 5 to 6 amps when its warmed up. just to give you an idea. very little draw on my alt. Hope this helps ya

benben01
09-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Never really analyzed the configuration. Guess that's what I will be doing this weekend :) Thanks Helz!

biggy boy
09-25-2009, 12:28 PM
Not sure if you saw the earlier post about the use of the Volo on another forum or not.

http://pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php?topic=169.0

The one guy that is having good success with the Volo FS1 uses an O2 EFIE with it.
I'm waiting for him to reply about his findings with the FS2 as to whether he still needs to use the O2 EFIE.

I have the FS1 and found it improved my mileage from ave 13 litres per 100 KM
down to 10.5 litres per 100 Km.
It took about a week or two to respond to my Daily trips to work and back of
60KM.

When I got the FS2 I took out the FS1 and have left it out for about a week now.
My mileage has gotten worse again. back in the low 13 litres per 100KM range,
it took almost a week of my driving to work and back for the trucks to slowly ajust to not having the Volo.
I'll put the FS2 in maybe this weekend and see what it does. This is with out HHO in the truck!!

There! You happy now Helz?? LOL :p

Glen
__________________

Helz_McFugly
09-25-2009, 01:30 PM
I read that thread. he seems to be swearing by that thing now. I should put extendors on my 02 sensors or maybe get a efie for my 02's. maybe i can squeeze out a little more gain with it. but at liest I have a better idea of what its doing. its flashing the ECM with a false MAP reading, changing the F/A to 18:1. I bet the difference between teh FS1 and the FS2 is that the FS2 retards the timing due to reading from 02 sensors. thats the only thing I can think of that it would be doing being that its designed for HHO. which is why I could get more if I slap a efie on my 02's. whatchu think?

biggy boy
09-25-2009, 02:55 PM
whatchu think?

If it was me I would stay away from the O2 extenders, from what I have read they are not as good as an O2 EFIE. Also if you do get an EFIE get a digital one.

I'm going to get this one.
http://hhoelectronics.blogspot.com/

Helz_McFugly
09-25-2009, 03:33 PM
HA. Ive actually emailed that guy at hhoelectronics about that very one to see how much they are, which is $75. I liked it because it doesnt have that highway/city switch and its well built, not a birds nest of crap.

benben01
09-26-2009, 08:50 AM
I've updated my 02 extenders to minimize the exhuast reading. Will give this a shot on my next fill up.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2r5x4jr.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/29wkgb9.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/ndskt3.jpg

Helz_McFugly
09-26-2009, 01:31 PM
Ben Im ready to run an efie on my 02 sensors along side the VOLO FS2. Im not so sure about those extendors now that I think about them. there is enough pressure in your exhaust upstream of your Cat that its going to get in that hole no matter what. they wont hurt anything but I think they might be a waist unless the are competely blocked and had no hole just to let the 02 sensor heatup. they might be good for the HP community. I say we go with EFIE's for the 02's. what have you go to lose for $75. we know they work.

biggy boy
09-26-2009, 01:57 PM
I put the FS2 on this morning.
I'll see how it compares to the FS1 I took off.
In a week or so I'll know.

benben01
09-26-2009, 09:08 PM
Helz, my only reservation with the EFIE is that my ECU is located in the engine compartment. Locating the EFIE in there as well as splicing the ECU wires don't sit well with me. I am gonna mess with the extenders and the FS2 and see what happens.

Helz_McFugly
09-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Helz, my only reservation with the EFIE is that my ECU is located in the engine compartment. Locating the EFIE in there as well as splicing the ECU wires don't sit well with me. I am gonna mess with the extenders and the FS2 and see what happens.

Thats cool man. Im going to give the 02 sensor efie a shot. keep us posted. you know Ill do the same

Helz_McFugly
09-26-2009, 10:05 PM
I put the FS2 on this morning.
I'll see how it compares to the FS1 I took off.
In a week or so I'll know.

I sure hope it works for you. might make me question its abilitty less. now that I have somewhat of an understanding of what it does I can start messing with my sensors now. I think Im gunna go with that one efie that we both were looking into.

jerrygoldsmith
09-27-2009, 11:55 AM
What if everyone doing this put their info together and we made a table for reference?
Car type, engine type, HHO cell type and LPM, gadget used (volo, FS2, etc), and results.

Helz_McFugly
09-27-2009, 02:23 PM
Ive already email the main MOD about 2 weeks ago and asked him to put a new topic on the main page for such info. I have yet to get a responce

hg2
09-27-2009, 04:32 PM
Helz, my only reservation with the EFIE is that my ECU is located in the engine compartment. Locating the EFIE in there as well as splicing the ECU wires don't sit well with me. I am gonna mess with the extenders and the FS2 and see what happens.


Hey benben01 save yourself some grief and lose the O2s extenders,they don't work and are nothing but a waste of time and good for nothing but setting codes.

If you're not comfortable with splicing into the ECU harness(which neither was I)you can always tap in at the O2 sensor itself.Just make sure to use weatherproof wire connectors that have the heatshrink already on them because the O2 sensor harness wiring is stainless and is a ***** to solder.

benben01
09-27-2009, 06:48 PM
After 100 miles with the double O2 extenders, my MPG has gone back up. Without HH0 and running just FS2, my 1/4 tank milage was in the 80s. So far, I am at the 100 mile mark and just shy of the 1/4 tank. A couple of observations...

- With my OBD-2 Scanner hooked up, my O2 sensor readings never held steady with or without HH0. Basically, you can't tell if the HHO had any effects on the sensors. However, these readings were with the FS2 connected. I am going to make a quick disconnect harness for the FS2 and get some more O2 sensor readings with my scan tool and get a baseline.

- Bottomline... In the last 1000 miles.. base as in oem stock.. avg mpg ~17; HHO only 17-18; HHO with FS2 17-18; HHO, FS2, double O2 extenders, 18+ so far.

Helz_McFugly
09-27-2009, 07:08 PM
After 100 miles with the double O2 extenders, my MPG has gone back up. Without HH0 and running just FS2, my 1/4 tank milage was in the 80s. So far, I am at the 100 mile mark and just shy of the 1/4 tank. A couple of observations...

- With my OBD-2 Scanner hooked up, my O2 sensor readings never held steady with or without HH0. Basically, you can't tell if the HHO had any effects on the sensors. However, these readings were with the FS2 connected. I am going to make a quick disconnect harness for the FS2 and get some more O2 sensor readings with my scan tool and get a baseline.

- Bottomline... In the last 1000 miles.. base as in oem stock.. avg mpg ~17; HHO only 17-18; HHO with FS2 17-18; HHO, FS2, double O2 extenders, 18+ so far.

cool, I cant wait to see what the 02 sensor reading are without the FS2

HG2. glad your hear posting again.

benben01
09-27-2009, 07:38 PM
Talk about weirdness.. Just disconncted the ground lead to the FS2.. The data light still flashes by the other 2 leds are off. So that means the FS2 is off right? In any event, the O2 readings are the same.. All over the place from 0.020 to 0.920 volts. Basically same as before. Will disconnect the FS2 altogether tomorrow and see if that changes the O2 readings. FYI, hooked up the scanner to my Mazdaspeed 3 and the O2 voltage was stable @ 0.200 volts.

Helz_McFugly
09-27-2009, 07:40 PM
what scanner are you using. got a link?

benben01
09-27-2009, 07:54 PM
Just a generic OBD-ii with ELM and CAN I got from ebay. It's USB and works with most Scantool software running on windows.

biggy boy
09-27-2009, 08:37 PM
Does your scanner tell you if you are in closed loop or open loop when you are driving, with your extenders on?

Glen

benben01
09-28-2009, 06:17 AM
Yup, the software has that capibility. What's weird is that the voltage flucutates like that in both open and closed loops.

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 07:40 AM
Yup, the software has that capibility. What's weird is that the voltage flucutates like that in both open and closed loops.

When you are driving normally with the extenders on is it in open or closed loop?
The fluctuation mean the O2 sensors are working.
They will fluctuate whether in open or closed loop, But in open loop, the
vehicle's computer will ignore the O2 sensors and use a richer fuel/air setting.
When I'm in open loop my air/fuel ratio is 10.4/1-12.5/1. In closed loop 14.6/1

Glen

benben01
09-28-2009, 11:42 AM
The system is function properly. When the engine is warm, it's in closed loop. So the big question is this.. If the voltage fluctuations are normal, then how do you really know if the engine is running rich or lean?

Helz_McFugly
09-28-2009, 12:20 PM
so the readings are all over the place from 0.020 to 0.920 volts with or without the HHO or the FS2
I think if it runs lean or rich youll see a spike for a longer period of time. and you say you see no spike for any period of time when you turn on the HHO or the FS2? Im starting to think the FS2 does nothing to the 02 sensor readings it just reads them and advances timing very slightly and simply soft flashing a set MAP reading to the ECM when ever you see the red light flicker. So its taking a quick reading and flashing the ECM ever 30 seconds or so. thats my guess.

Still I cant imagine why the 02 readings dont change when you add HHO. maybe its not enough to make a change that you can see with your software. how real time is that scanner? maybe it takes a reading ever .5 second? Im not sure how fast the ECM is but the fact that it can send a signal to each injector to fire so quickly it has to be very very fast. So maybe you wont see any changes because it can compinsate faster then your scanner can read it. you might see a change in the 02 readings if you were to pump in 5LPM of HHO, maybe?

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 12:31 PM
My AFR does not change with the FS1 or the FS2 stays at 14.6/1 when in closed loop, doesn't budge unless I open the throttle up 100%

The HHO does cause the O2 to read lean, but the vehicle's computer add more gasoline to richen the mix.
I think the FS2 only changes the Ignition timing and maybe the injector firing rate? We really need a programmer to change the AFR!!

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 12:44 PM
Ben
Does your scanner tell you what the AFR is?

The problem is when you use extenders or an O2 EFIE it is lying to the computer telling it the motor is running rich. So the computer sees the false reading and ajusts to what it thinks is 14.7/1. Any device that reads the computers(scan Gauge, scaning tool....) info will tell you its 14.7/1! even thou it is not. The AFR may actualy be 14.9/1 - 15/1........leaner.

ramcustom
09-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Im getting the same afr reading with my FS2. A constant 14.6 in closed loop. At start up it may be 13.6 open loop . Never gets better than 14.6. I guess thats another scam to add to our list. Thanks VOLO!

Helz_McFugly
09-28-2009, 03:08 PM
I cant say its a total scam. If I take my VOLO off while running HHO, it does go back down to 15 MPG which is 4MPG less then what I got before HHO. with it on and HHO on im getting 25MPG. If I had the chance to get my $ back Ide jump onit and go with efie's instead. but its doing something, they are jsut to shady to tell u what that is. thats my main dislike of the thing. But Yea, I cant say its a total scam but I cant say its a great product either. I can say I wont be recommending it to anyone.

benben01
09-28-2009, 03:32 PM
No AFR reading on my software.. However, I did talk to FuelSave-MPG. He thinks the Quad EFIE would be the answer If I can get the initial 20-25% increase in MPGs. The other big problem I am running into is the newness of my car. The ECM is configured for CARB and too smart to be fooled via conventional methods.

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 03:33 PM
Im getting the same afr reading with my FS2. A constant 14.6 in closed loop. At start up it may be 13.6 open loop . Never gets better than 14.6. I guess thats another scam to add to our list. Thanks VOLO!

Odd mine works
I put on the FS1 went from 12.8-13 litres per 100km stock to 10.2-11.5 Litres per 100KM

Took of the FS1 and ran stock for one week mileage went down again, got worse. Back to 13 litres per 100KM
Put on the new FS2 and my mileage improved again back to 9.8-11.4 litres per 100KM. This is without HHO just gasoline.

ramcustom
09-28-2009, 05:59 PM
shouldn't the afr mixture be changing to a leaner mix?I took off my efie device cause every time I turned it up the ecu went into open loop and the afr went directly from 14.6 to 13.8. This is with the VOLO FS2 on and HHO on.So now i'm back to trying the FS2 with HHO and see what happens.

Helz_McFugly
09-28-2009, 07:48 PM
If the FS2 or the efie's are working then what ever reading you get as far as afr on a scan guage isnt going to be right. it may say 13 to 14ish but in reallity its 17 or 18 (thats if your getting gainsin MPG). the ECM thinks its 13 to 14ish because your tricking it into thinking that. isnt that the idea? your telling the ecm via 02 readings and MAP soft flashing, that that there is x amount of air going in and x amount of 02 in the exhaust so it cuts back on fuel to give what it thinks is 13 to 14ish (where it should be) when its really 17 or 18 in the combustion chamber. It thinks it knows how much air is going in via the MAF, MAP (which the FS or efie is tricking). It knows whats being burt and whats coming out via the 02 sensors (which is what we control with the efie or maybe the FS is doing some work there). if you tell the ECM via the 02 sensors that there is less 02 coming out it thinks it must have to much gas, it must be 12 or 13 (which its not, its really 13 to 14ish) so it cuts back the gas to what it thinks is 13 to 14ish but is really 17 or 18 or whatever.

SO unless you can manually control afr then you have to trick the computer into controlling it. I dont think the ECM would even allow 18 to 20 would it?

this is just my outtake on it. I may be way off base. but thats how I figure it works.

Roland Jacques
09-28-2009, 08:00 PM
My AFR does not change with the FS1 or the FS2 stays at 14.6/1 when in closed loop,



Maybe thats what the FS are supposed to do? (fool the computer into thinking it's running at optimum A/F ratio 14.6 : 1). I dont know but maybe you are just reading what the ECU sees.

Helz_McFugly
09-28-2009, 08:27 PM
yea exactly. there is no flow meter on your fuel line.

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Maybe thats what the FS are supposed to do? (fool the computer into thinking it's running at optimum A/F ratio 14.6 : 1). I dont know but maybe you are just reading what the ECU sees.

Yes that's what I'm saying the Scangauge only displays what the ECU tells it.
If the ECU is being fooled by an Effie and thinks the AFR is 14.7/1 then that is what It tells the ScanGauge.

But I do not think the FS2 does fool the ECU to think the AFR is 14.7/1. I think it just changes the Timing.

I think a good REAL digital O2 EFIE needs to be used with the FS2.

Something to remember about ECUs and EFIE.
The ECU is very very smart. You need to use more then just one EFIE device to fool it. You can't just use an O2 EFIE! You also need to use a MAF/MAP enhancer, along with it.
OR you can use the FS2, instead of the MAP/MAF enhancer.

This is the rout I have chosen FS2 and a GOOD digital O2 EFIE.:)

The ECU takes may things into consideration IE:
Air temp, barometric pressure, water temp,engine load, rpm, vacuum............. You can not fool the ECU for long with Just an O2 EFIE it catches on over time and makes corrections.

Also making constant and quick changes put this on take that off put that one. will not show up good all the time.
These tests need to be done systematically and slowly one at a time.
The ECU need time for some of these devices to sink in.

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 09:28 PM
shouldn't the afr mixture be changing to a leaner mix?I took off my efie device cause every time I turned it up the ecu went into open loop and the afr went directly from 14.6 to 13.8. This is with the VOLO FS2 on and HHO on.So now i'm back to trying the FS2 with HHO and see what happens.

Which O2 EFIE were you using Don?
A Fuel saver digital or an old school one?

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 09:29 PM
yea exactly. there is no flow meter on your fuel line. :confused: You lost me on this one Mate!

spicerman
09-28-2009, 09:52 PM
Got got mine in the mail today. Im not going to install just yet. Need to test more using water inj., 1 LPM HHO, & EFIE. Having speratic results....Mostly good but dont know why??

When the check engine light is on does the ECU not go into closed loop??

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 10:18 PM
Got got mine in the mail today. Im not going to install just yet. Need to test more using water inj., 1 LPM HHO, & EFIE. Having speratic results....Mostly good but dont know why??

When the check engine light is on does the ECU not go into closed loop??

Closed loop is good. But when the engine light comes on, its in open loop. Not good.

How many miles have you put on with the HHO going?

I'm very curious about the use of water injection in combination of HHO!
Pleas keep us posted, maybe start a new thread with your injection/HHO
findings:)

Helz_McFugly
09-28-2009, 10:37 PM
This is the rout I have chosen FS2 and a GOOD digital O2 EFIE.
same here.


Maybe thats what the FS are supposed to do? (fool the computer into thinking it's running at optimum A/F ratio 14.6 : 1). I dont know but maybe you are just reading what the ECU sees.

I said exactly,

I meant there is no flow meter on the fuel line so the ECM doesnt know exactly how much fuel is being used. If it had a flow meter on the fuel line going in and the return line back to the tank it would know exactly how much fuel was being used. but it doesnt, It only knows what it knows by the reading of all the sensors, or the data we trick it with.
better? sorry I didnt elaborate.

biggy boy
09-28-2009, 10:50 PM
OK got ya now.

I wonder if the computer is smart enought to know how much fuel it uses by the pulse rate of the injectors?? From there it could maybe calculate how much is used injector rate x number of injectors.......??

It must! because my scan gauge tells me my mileage, how far I can drive till I'm empty my actual mpg and average mpg for a trip. So it must know how much fuel it is using.

Helz_McFugly
09-28-2009, 11:10 PM
you would think. but I fill up at the same tank every time with both my cars and one has that MPG reading and its always off compaired to my math. and i know my math is right. but then again, I have yet to go to that pump and test it with a gallon measuring tank to make sure its dead on. regarless. the cars MPG thing and doing the math is NEVER the same, EVER. the car always says its less MPG's then the math on paper. normally by about 1 to 2 MPGs

ramcustom
09-29-2009, 09:25 AM
Glen- the o2 efie device is digital and is on both sensors before the catalytic converter. i got it from www.3rdbrakefleaser.com. As soon as i start to add voltage above 250mamps the ecu does into open loop and eventually a service engine light comes on. So for now the efie is disconnected and I an trying the FS2 with HHO and testing. I have a 200 mile ride tomorrow on the interstate at 70mph and i'll post the results on that.

biggy boy
09-29-2009, 10:21 AM
I think I read someware that 250ma is the max ajust on that type of EFIE.

spicerman
09-29-2009, 09:56 PM
My check engine light comes on and things dont work as good. My EFIE (poor mans version) pushes the o2 sensor out of range. Im only adding about .020 MV to the signal. I can reset the ECU and all works good for a time then without adjusting anything the check eng. light comes on. Adding water & HHO adds a lot more oxygen to the mix. The more HHO, the more water you can add. Thats what my manual says. "Add until you stop seeing gain" I started with injecting 1 OZ p/min.
George Wiseman ( Eagle-research) Has a manual on water Inj. I got it last spring. I wanted more power when pulling my camper and maybe better economy all around. The manual says that the fuel that is added to the combustion process has to be rich enough so that some is left over at the tail end to quench the flame and thus not burn the valves. The extra fuel is waste and is burned in the cats. This "extra fuel" can be replaced with water. but there is not magic formula as every engine is different.
They used water inj. in the old WW2 aircraft engines for more power durring takeoff and dog fights. But, they were bare bone engines, they didnt have all this electronic BS to deal with. :(

jerrygoldsmith
09-30-2009, 12:00 PM
I bet the Volo's/FS2and stuff like that just aren't calibrated right. Don't you have to input your car type in the selection when you order them? If they have to put something in about the timing or whatever, you might get less than desirable results because someone eff'd up the data when they sent it to you.

biggy boy
09-30-2009, 12:32 PM
I bet the Volo's/FS2and stuff like that just aren't calibrated right. Don't you have to input your car type in the selection when you order them? If they have to put something in about the timing or whatever, you might get less than desirable results because someone eff'd up the data when they sent it to you.

Good point, they could have easly mixed up on the data on the chip.

jerrygoldsmith
09-30-2009, 12:56 PM
Good point, they could have easly mixed up on the data on the chip.

or have bad data for that system. Or any data.

Who knows if they actually have independent data for all those cars and types? Think about it. They could just have a rough set of data for general car types/manufacturers/engines. Then for every car that was made by say, Pontiac, with a V6 engine, they might use the same data for all those in that 'group'. Regardless of any actual differences in the ECU's or whatever they are called.

ramcustom
09-30-2009, 05:17 PM
latest FS2 update. i ran 170 miles with hho on and FS2 on and no efie and got 33.3mpg
With FS2 on and hho off and efie off got 35 mpg Go figure????

Helz_McFugly
09-30-2009, 06:03 PM
latest FS2 update. i ran 170 miles with hho on and FS2 on and no efie and got 33.3mpg
With FS2 on and hho off and efie off got 35 mpg Go figure????

any idea what your MMW is? if not answer the following questions and ill show ya how to figure it out.
how many amps?
how many volts?
how many LPM?
are you using a PWM? to control current or electrolyte mixture?
how is your cell configured?
enough questions yet?

ya might be puting a bigger draw on your alternator to make your HHO then you are getting from the boost you get from the HHO youre producing.

ramcustom
09-30-2009, 06:51 PM
i'll have to get back to you later. To many questions,to few answers.

Roland Jacques
10-01-2009, 07:34 AM
I dont know if you are giving the chip enough time to configure. i Would think you need to resit it if you go from HHO to no HHO

Paul, a installer said about the FS1
"Remember that Volo states that it can take 100 to 150 miles for this little gadget to start to do its' magic. It can also take around a dozen or so, key off cycles to get the ECU to "learn" (where applicable) the new MAP and accept the parameters contained therein."


I could not find where it says that but I'll take his word

biggy boy
10-01-2009, 08:34 AM
I dont know if you are giving the chip enough time to configure. i Would think you need to resit it if you go from HHO to no HHO

Paul, a installer said about the FS1
"Remember that Volo states that it can take 100 to 150 miles for this little gadget to start to do its' magic. It can also take around a dozen or so, key off cycles to get the ECU to "learn" (where applicable) the new MAP and accept the parameters contained therein."


I could not find where it says that but I'll take his word


http://pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php?topic=169.0

Paul's Quote from page #1 post #9:
"I was told that it can take up to 100-150 miles and several Key Off cycles for this new MAP to be "ingrained" into the ECU".

jerrygoldsmith
10-01-2009, 09:29 AM
http://pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php?topic=169.0

Paul's Quote from page #1 post #9:
"I was told that it can take up to 100-150 miles and several Key Off cycles for this new MAP to be "ingrained" into the ECU".

Kind of sounds like they are hoping it will just start working and they won't have to deal with it.

ramcustom
10-01-2009, 12:47 PM
jerry-I have a pwm with an analog gauge set at about 15-20amps. It makes about 1 l per minute of HHO. Don't know about the plate conf cause its mounted WAYY under the car and is a pain to get to. I can crank the pwm up and it will go over 25 amps but i think thats to much.

Helz_McFugly
10-01-2009, 02:50 PM
@ram If youre making 1LPM 13.8vdc/20amp thats 3.62 MMW
I think anything over a 5 is good. yours is pretty inefficient. probably why you dont see any gains when its running. It is making enough HHO to help BUT its taking more energy (draw off your engine) to make the HHO then is being put back in the engine to increase efficient. you really need to check your plate config. you might be able to reconfig it to still make 1LPM and use less amps. and get a higher MMW

Roland Jacques
10-01-2009, 05:58 PM
Kind of sounds like they are hoping it will just start working and they won't have to deal with it.
No.

That's not the dealer being quoted. Paul installs HHO units if it does not work he makes no money. He knows what he is talking about.
FWIW most engine work, mods, chips... requires time for computer to figure it out.

I had to resit my FS2 yesterday because i changed a spark plug (the van was missing) I hit 100 miles on it today. I'm going to start recordig MPG readings tomorrow.

spicerman
10-01-2009, 09:33 PM
I just put the FS2 in my truck last night.
So all my other problems were with my system. I get too greedy with my EFIE.
I drove my truck to work today (24mls round trip.) w/ FS2 and HHO. No EFIE or water inj. Its back to its gas guzzeling self. could watch the guage go down. The FS2 is supposed to take 150 MLS or so to tune itself. I Filled the tank today, So we'll wait and see.
It sounds like yours is working for you Biggy Boy. Im glad. I was beginning to wounder if this "new and improved " version was going to work??!
My HHO gen. or the water inj. doesnt run all the time. I set it up so when I let off the gas it stuts off Via a throttle switch. Im woundering is they should be running durring the "programing at start up." I should talk to VOLO.

biggy boy
10-01-2009, 09:52 PM
Here are some observations I have made in the past month as far a fuel economy.
I live in Ontario Canada we have four seasons here, being fall it is cooling down,
1)cooler weather means poorer fuel economy.
So my MPG have dropped due to the air temp.

2) summer holidays are over, school is back in and there is notably more traffic on the roads to and from work. this heavier traffic has lowered my MPG.

3) there is more construction going on right now on my rout to work. this has cause slowdowns and has effected my MPG.

Some or all of these factors should be taken into consideration when doing your mpg calculations.

There are sooo many variables involved it sometimes can drive you nuts!

Also very important!!!!
You must always fill up at the same pump in the same exact spot each time you fill up, if you want an accurate record of your MPG. different pump shut off at different tank fill levels. I found this out the hard way.

Helz_McFugly
10-02-2009, 12:14 AM
No.

That's not the dealer being quoted. Paul installs HHO units if it does not work he makes no money. He knows what he is talking about.
FWIW most engine work, mods, chips... requires time for computer to figure it out.

I had to resit my FS2 yesterday because i changed a spark plug (the van was missing) I hit 100 miles on it today. I'm going to start recordig MPG readings tomorrow.

Who is Paul? the VOLO dealer?

He knows what he is talking about.
where do i find this talk?

biggy boy
10-02-2009, 10:24 AM
Who is Paul? the VOLO dealer?

where do i find this talk?

In the link I have posted THREE TIMES NOW Pottsie! :p :D :)

NO he is not a VOLO dealer he makes and installs HHO systems in cars.
This is the guy I got the idea of using the Volo from!! :p
It is from HIS recommendations that I bought the FS1!

http://pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php?topic=169.0

Helz_McFugly
10-02-2009, 10:31 AM
OH now you just sound like my wife.
look MF'r. I have past chemical induced short term memory loss. lol
what where we talking about again?

"EDIT" here is a tid bit of info I thought you might want ot hear. I reconfigured my cell last night to run more efficient +nnnnnn-. so I get it hooked up and it runs at about 5.5 MMW now which is awesome for such a small cell. ok so Im sitting in the drive through wait on my food and I see the ZOLO's red light flash and my car dies. So it must have leaned out the fuel so much that it died. most people would be disapointed that their car died. I was thinking, wow its working.

biggy boy
10-02-2009, 12:40 PM
OH now you just sound like my wife.
look MF'r. I have past chemical induced short term memory loss. lol
what where we talking about again?

"EDIT" here is a tid bit of info I thought you might want ot hear. I reconfigured my cell last night to run more efficient +nnnnnn-. so I get it hooked up and it runs at about 5.5 MMW now which is awesome for such a small cell. ok so Im sitting in the drive through wait on my food and I see the ZOLO's red light flash and my car dies. So it must have leaned out the fuel so much that it died. most people would be disapointed that their car died. I was thinking, wow its working.

So you think it went so lean it starved the motor! kind of what can happen if you ajust an EFIE too much??
Humm interesting. Did you start it back up and it was fine after that??

Helz_McFugly
10-02-2009, 01:17 PM
yea, started right back up and hasnt done it again. thats the first time that car has EVER died.

spicerman
10-03-2009, 01:19 AM
This is my "poor mans" exhaust temp. guage.....Pyrometer??
I took a thermocouple for an old furnace and checked the Ohms, (from the center to the shell) and it was "zero" I took a propane torch and heated the thermocouple tip and the Ohms went up. when the tip just started to turn red the ohms were at about 500 (cant remember exactly) Cherry red is approx 1400 F so I figured about 1200 F. So using ratio & proportion I could get an approximate idea of what my exhaust temp was and see if it changes as I try different things. So I made an adapter, drilled and tapped a 1/8 MPT thread in my exhaust pipe 2" down from the O2 sensor and put it in. I ran 2 wires into the cab and I use an Ohm meter to monitor the temps. So far its working slick!. I also have a vacuum guage in the cab... I said all that to say this... On cold damp mornings my exhaust temps are up (about 320 Ohms) and my vacuum is down. On dryer clear mornings and afternoons the exhaust temps are down or lower.(about 270 Ohms) So the weather can make a difference. (The varying density and moisture content of the intake air)The only real true consistent test would be with a Dyno.

ramcustom
10-05-2009, 04:24 PM
[QUOTE=Ok I just changed my HHO generators. The old one has 6inch plates, a total of 8plates set up NEG,N,N,N,POS,N,N,NEG. The new one has 11 4inch plates set up NEG,N,N,N,N,pos,N,N,N,N,NEG. Let you know how that wiorks out.

biggy boy
10-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Hey spiceman
Good thinking!!!!
that thermocouple puts out milli volts too.
It will put out over 20 milli volts and higher, a bit over thirty when hot, so you could also monitor the milli volts.
The milli voltage that it generates is what holds the pilot gas valve open on a gas furnace. It drops the valve out once it reaches around 12 milli volts, if the pilot flame goes out.
From what I
remember.

Glen

ramcustom
10-05-2009, 06:54 PM
check out www.hhogames.com. someone has developed software to download over the internet to your ecu thru the obd2 port. Also something about using gasoline instaed of water to generate HHO. You have to read it.

jerrygoldsmith
10-05-2009, 07:48 PM
check out www.hhogames.com. someone has developed software to download over the internet to your ecu thru the obd2 port. Also something about using gasoline instaed of water to generate HHO. You have to read it.

I could barely look at that website.... horrible design hurt my eyes trying to navigate there :p Gas instead of water though?...... :confused:

#1 that seems like a step backwards..... using Gas for HHO. Sure, it has some Hydrogen there, quite a bit from what I've read. "C6H14" But its still.... kind of a step back in my opinion :(

#2 If your HHO water system backfires, and somehow goes back past your bubblers and flame arrestors..... all you have is a blown system that will have to be rebuilt.

But imagine that going back to a nice big canister of Gasoline instead of water!! :D

biggy boy
10-05-2009, 08:46 PM
Did you see the blurb on the FS2?
they say they will be doing a test at that HHo get together.
Thanks for the link Dan

Helz_McFugly
10-05-2009, 09:16 PM
I have to see the FS2 tests and results. well if they arent just data from the makers of the Volo.

ramcustom
10-05-2009, 09:57 PM
I was thinking of going to the HHO EXPO in Nov. Anyone ever gone to the earlier ones? Is it worth going?

biggy boy
10-05-2009, 10:12 PM
I was thinking of going to the HHO EXPO in Nov. Anyone ever gone to the earlier ones? Is it worth going?

I wish they had events like that in Canada!
All we have is snow!!:p

Helz_McFugly
10-05-2009, 10:21 PM
I wish we had one here in Dallas. All we have here are gunshows :cool: but im not complaining

spicerman
10-06-2009, 08:28 PM
Hey
The Milivolts was my first idea (0 to 30) but then I happen to measure Ohms and that was 0 to 550. More sensitivity :) It seem to be pretty consistent. I'm surprised how much temps vary.

Helz_McFugly
10-06-2009, 09:26 PM
can you take a pic of the device youre using or a link to one? Ide like to check it out.

biggy boy
10-06-2009, 10:04 PM
Hey
The Milivolts was my first idea (0 to 30) but then I happen to measure Ohms and that was 0 to 550. More sensitivity :) It seem to be pretty consistent. I'm surprised how much temps vary.

The nice thing about the 0-30 is,
you can buy a $10 LCD panel to mount in the vehicle it can be used to measure volts, amps temp......
For temp you could use the Ampmeter setting on the back of the display its looking for milivolts.
I was looking at them the other day at the electronics components supplier.

biggy boy
10-06-2009, 10:06 PM
can you take a pic of the device youre using or a link to one? Ide like to check it out.

https://www.centraltrailer.com/cart/images/2631-3481.jpg

benben01
10-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Been away for a week to do some extensive testing with the following setup on my Mazda CX-9

- Double O2 extenders, HHO, FS2 = no gains to slight loss plus CELs relating to O2 flow rates

- HHO and FS2 = slight gain to unchange

- HHO only = same as above

- FS2 only = same as above

In all the above scenarios, I ran a full tank of gas on each setup. One thing I did notice which was a bit disturbing was that the FS2 was causing the engine to knock at low rpms with load. Once I removed the FS2, knock went away. Guess it's time for a Quad EFIE

Helz_McFugly
10-06-2009, 11:03 PM
I dont think you need the quad, Ide go with this one in the link, its $75. but if you feel better controlling all 4 go for it.

http://hhoelectronics.blogspot.com/

benben01
10-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Leaning towards quad because my ECM is tuned for CARB. So there's a good chance that the downstream O2 sensors are part of the fuel delivery equation.

Helz_McFugly
10-07-2009, 01:22 PM
cool, better safe the sorry. good luck with it and keep us posted

spicerman
10-10-2009, 09:45 PM
Ben Ben01....
This might be a dumb question but... Did you reset the FS2 before each test?
I just did my first test with FS2& HHO (1-1.2 LPM) and I want from my usual 17MPG to 22.8MPG (156 miles)
I just pulled my camper back home today, I hav'nt filled up yet to see but I usually get 7-9 MPG. My engine did sound different this time. It sounded more "throaty" Like when a 4 barrel carb. kicks in:D I'll let you know. I think its working for me.???!

Roland Jacques
10-15-2009, 09:07 AM
Have any of you guys with FS2s taken a codes reading on your vehicle?
I'm not sure weather its the chip or my van that non available codes for cooling and bunch of other stuff.

I think my van is still running in open loop. I have to by a affordable scanner if i can find one.

biggy boy
10-15-2009, 09:29 AM
Have any of you guys with FS2s taken a codes reading on your vehicle?
I'm not sure weather its the chip or my van that non available codes for cooling and bunch of other stuff.

I think my van is still running in open loop. I have to by a affordable scanner if i can find one.

I have the ScanGauge set up in my truck that has the FS2
It reads codes and all kinds of stuff. It tells me if I'm in open loop or closed, AFR, torque, Hp, air temp,coolant temp, timing, load................................

I have not thrown codes let.
But I did use it to read codes on my sisters car!

http://www.scangauge.com/

And here is an update from Paul on his FS2 install!!!!

http://pmgen.com/hhoscambusters/index.php?topic=169.50

Glen

Roland Jacques
10-15-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks Glen

I guess im going to turn my FS2 off and get to the bottom of these codes.

Im going to Order a ProScan OBD II. Laptop scanning program...

biggy boy
10-15-2009, 02:59 PM
Thanks Glen

I guess im going to turn my FS2 off and get to the bottom of these codes.

Im going to Order a ProScan OBD II. Laptop scanning program...

Let us know how you make out with the ProScan I was at their site reading about the unit! Looks interesting.

Atechguy
10-18-2009, 07:46 AM
OKay i'm still on the fence:p about this product ,i guess its to soon to say this works for every car that has put it on , has any body put it on a 01 Subaru 2.5L Non Turbo ?? :D

acalister
10-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Hello every one
I just loved this DEFIE that i got from ebay. it works for me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Digital-Universal-EFIE-O2-MAP-MAF-Enhancer-Hydrogen-HHO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35a32f3dd3QQitemZ23 0371048915QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcce ssories

My vehicle 2.0 L 8V Flex Power GM running only on Etanol i got
40% fuel economy with the Scorpion Dry Cell 3 LPM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_private?v=Nf7yQPcg6hk&sharing_token=QjkDPP1x7keO_UO441mhZg==

and also give a try with nano cell ALIESS-DRY
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=TPBvhSteMc8&next=%2Fmy_videos%3Fpi%3D0%26ps%3D20%26sf%3Dadded% 26sa%3D0%26sq%3D%26dm%3D1


I just bought the PS2 and i hope to better , around 50%.

biggy boy
10-20-2009, 02:35 PM
Hola
Bienvenido al foro seņor

Helz_McFugly
10-23-2009, 12:23 PM
this is why your scan gauge shows the voltage always jumping around. you jsut have to catch how high or low it jumps to.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2chart.gif

spicerman
10-24-2009, 10:21 PM
FS2 + HHO with my 350 Chev pickup. Pulled my camper home (187 Mls.) usually get 7 to 9 MPG. This pull got 10 MPG even. :D Had a strong side wind, and pulled into it for about 30 Mls. I'd say its working! My engine sounded different, Like it was really pulling hard but my exhaust temps were no higher then a normal drive to work. The biggest swing in exhaust temps is the weather. Clear dry temps are low... Rainy temps are higher

acalister
10-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Hola
Bienvenido al foro seņor
Thank´s
Here is the OBDII conector PIN and definition

1 Not defined
2 Bus positive line of SAE J1850
3 Not defined
4 Chassis ground
5 Signal ground
6 CAN(H) ISO 15765
7 K line ISO 9141/14230
8 Not defined
9 Not defined
10 Bus negative line of SAE J1850
11 Not defined
12 Not defined
13 Not defined
14 CAN(L) ISO 15765
15 L line ISO 9141/14230
16 +12 volt battery

Helps to uderstand how FS2 works. But i think that FS1 or FS2 is only a Digital EFIE MAP that turn on and off for 2 minutes and back on again every 20,30 or 40 miles before ECU compensates for it. Some say take a miles to ECU adjusted on its own.

biggy boy
10-27-2009, 11:12 AM
So you are saying the FS1/FS2 needs to keep tricking (sending a new message) the ECU every few miles..., because the ECU keeps reverting back to is normal state?


Glen

acalister
10-27-2009, 05:22 PM
So you are saying the FS1/FS2 needs to keep tricking (sending a new message) the ECU every few miles..., because the ECU keeps reverting back to is normal state?


Glen

Glen
exactly what i mean. If we use e digital efie with some kind time relay will be same thing.

acalister
12-10-2009, 01:28 PM
Glen
exactly what i mean. If we use e digital efie with some kind time relay will be same thing.

Made for each other ! Mini AlineSS_DRY & Volo FS2