DC Power Supply?

[Blinger101]

Hi all, I'm new (forgive me if this is in the wrong place). I found this place while researching how to build my own HHO generator. What I'm building is a smaller "home" version, which I can use to experiment with. I'm in the stages of assembling everything but I've got a question regarding how to power the generator/electrolyzer.

I tried to do a test run today (I've got the electrolyzer container assembled, wiring is all good) with an old AC/DC adapter I had laying around. Now, this adapter is a few years old, was used to power an old CD player (the kinds you take with you on a jog or biking...). When I connected the wiring correctly and plugged it in, I saw very very very tiny bubbles forming soooooooo slowly. Granted, this was only a test. I haven't gotten the plates in yet, so I just wanted to see if anything would be produced with just the bare ends of the wires in the water.

The thing with the adapter is that it only gives off 4.5V at 600 milli-amps. Is that even remotely enough to generate bubbles of any sort? Should I wait until I get the plates in?

Also, for comparison, I've got a laptop power supply that gives off 15V at 5 amps. Would that be good? I'm not a genius with electricity, but I know that more amperage means more current, which means the voltage is greater too (correct?).

So, I guess my question would be: What's the minimum power requirement from a DC source so I can see any sort of bubble generation?

I'm doing this as an experiment with my dad (a proof of concept kind've experiment), and he's really into it now. Any advice?

[dennis13030]

For a proof of concept, the 4.5V@0.6A AC/DC converter will work on a very small scale. A configuration of +N- would work ok for this AC/DC converter.

Your other power supply(15V@5A) should produce a lot more gas. With this power supply(15V@5A), I strongly recommend using a plate configuration of

+NNNN-NNNN+

"+" means the plate is wired to the positive side of the power supply. This is the anode.
"N" means the plate is NOT wired to either side of the power supply. This is a neutral.
"-" means the plate is wired to the negative side of the power supply. This is the cathode.

[Blinger101]

Ok, sounds good. Luckily I have the option of making new plates as I need them. The container I'm using is probably a bit more than 2 litres (about half a gallon) if that's any more information.

Also, quick question regarding the wiring. I've got it set up so that the wires outside the container are hooked up to bolts on the top, which go through the lid, and connects to another set of wires inside the container. Now, these wires are copper, which I pulled from the thick black cable of an old PC power supply. See images below:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7320/07-18-08_0959.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9826/07-18-08_1001.jpg

Are those going to be any problem for something like this?

[Bigtoyota]

If the bare copper of the wires is IN the electrolyte, it will "bleed" off into the solution and turn it green. This just means the solution should be changed on a more regular basis. A quick way to get around this would be to get some liquid electrical tape from the hardware store and coat any bare copper you have with it. Problem solved.

[Blinger101]

I've already got that covered by using heat-shrink tubing over top of the wires. Those images were taken a day ago when I first started.

[dennis13030]

Are those going to be any problem for something like this?

In general, it is best to use only stainless steel inside the tank. Mixed metals do react and change the color of the water.

[Bwanar]

As Dennis said....mixed metals isn't the best idea. The least nobel metal will be attacked and broken down. Easier to run stainless straps up above water level and connect them.
Second your assumption on current is Not correct.
You wrote: "I'm not a genius with electricity, but I know that more amperage means more current, which means the voltage is greater too (correct?)."
Voltage and amperage are independant of each other with regard to the equation of Watts (current) produced. You can increase Volts or Amps and not change the other. As they are multiplied together to get Watts, that is how current is increased. Understand? V x A = W

[Blinger101]

^Ah, thanks for clearing that up. It's been a while since I was in any electronics class.

I'll definately look into getting some steel straps on the inside of the container. At the very least I will do that for my final model which I'll use for my car.

[Bigtoyota]

Not just steel, that will cause rust and the steel will be eaten up. It's got to be stainless steel.

[Blinger101]

Yepyep, I will be using all stainless steel. Luckily there's a provider near where I live that sells sheets of stainless steel for 'relatively' cheap.

Another final question on the power supply situation. Is it possible to use a PC power supply unit for DC power? I'm a computer wizz, but electronics, ironically, aren't really my thing. I've heard of other people using PC PSU's to get plenty of power, so I assume it's not out of the question.

[Blinger101]

Hah, well then. THAT was a bang. But a very succesfull first experiment I guess.

So, I managed to hook everything up correctly, and chose to use one of my dad's 18v cordless batteries. I have my plates set up in a +NNN-NNN+ configuration. I added some baking soda into my container full of regular tap water. I then connected the wires to the battery, and watched. At a very fast rate, bubbles were forming. My dad, who is a skeptic about all of this, was amazed. That's when he got the idea to ignite the gas (which was coming from the bubbler I made from a water bottle). We had added some soap to it to trap the gas in the bubbles. My dad dropped a lit match into the bubbles.

There was a bang so freaking loud, we could hear it echo from across the field. Considering we live in a crowded neighbourhood, I won't be trying that again anytime soon. At least not until I research this some more.

My ears are still ringing. :(

[dennis13030]

It is still amazing to me that something like water that is used to put out fires can be so easily converted into something so explosive.

[Blinger101]

After some thought, I've decided I'd like to make my next electrolyzer based off of ZeroFossilFuel's design. I've watched all of his videos in his little playlist tutorial on YouTube, and he's provided plenty of detail. While I'm looking for a place that will get me the SS plates I need, I've decided on what kind of power supply I'll be using (for home purposes, until such time when I'm confident enough to hook it up in my car).

Since I'm a computer hardware whiz, I know how to handle PC power supplies. I've also got some general electronics experience from years ago in high school. I'm going to be getting a decent PC power supply (I've narrowed it down to one that supplies +12V at 18A) and modding it to provided some clean DC power. That should be safe enough, as long as I keep the amperage to the electrolyzer within 18A.

Also, what do you guys think of ZFF's cell design? He's been getting some solid results which I'm certain I can reproduce. Of course I'll be customizing my own version, but the plate setup will remain the same.