$1-a-gallon fuel tax

[HHO BLASTER]

Washington ducks the $1-a-gallon fuel tax (again). Economists of all political stripes say a higher floor on fuel prices - by

which they mean more taxes - would pull Americans into more efficient cars. Instead of pull demand, we're being pushed by

the new mpg rules. State and federal taxes now are about 50 cents a gallon. Raising it to $1 total, or $1 for the federal

part, would likely lead to more, smaller, more efficient cars. Just look at Europe (which admittedly also doesn't have the

open spaces and long distances to the nearest 7-Eleven we have in the West) to see how fuel prices of $5-$10 a gallon

lead buyers to prefer smaller cars. It would also lead to the electoral defeats of anyone voting for such a measure, which is

why it has never happened, and may never. Would you elect someone with the slogan, "Vote for me - I made America's

future safer and brighter by bringing back $3.50-a-gallon gasoline"?

[Painless]

Tax is what killed the UK fuel prices, over 50% of the cost per gallon is tax. One reason we get better MPG though is because the fuel is higher octane, it starts at 95 for regular unleaded and moves up to 97 for super unleaded. Anyone with sense purchases a diesel car in the UK these days.

Back in the 90's I had an awesome Volvo 440 1.9 Turbo Diesel. On the highway, it could pull almost 70 mpg.

[HHO BLASTER]

Tax is what killed the UK fuel prices, over 50% of the cost per gallon is tax. One reason we get better MPG though is because the fuel is higher octane, it starts at 95 for regular unleaded and moves up to 97 for super unleaded. Anyone with sense purchases a diesel car in the UK these days.

Back in the 90's I had an awesome Volvo 440 1.9 Turbo Diesel. On the highway, it could pull almost 70 mpg.

Hey that's the car for me kid, i tried to find one on eBay, no luck now if you grow your own bio diesel from algae your running very cheap

[BoyntonStu]

Tax is what killed the UK fuel prices, over 50% of the cost per gallon is tax. One reason we get better MPG though is because the fuel is higher octane, it starts at 95 for regular unleaded and moves up to 97 for super unleaded. Anyone with sense purchases a diesel car in the UK these days.

Back in the 90's I had an awesome Volvo 440 1.9 Turbo Diesel. On the highway, it could pull almost 70 mpg.


Actually, lower octane gas has more energy.

Diesel, 25 high octane?

Fuel type ↓ MJ/litre ↓ MJ/kg ↓ BTU/Imp gal ↓ BTU/US gal ↓ Research octane
number (RON) ↓
87 Octane Gasoline 34.8 44.4[10] 150,100 125,000 Min 91
Autogas (LPG) (60% Propane + 40% Butane) 26.8 46 108
Ethanol 23.5 31.1[11] 101,600 84,600 129
Methanol 17.9 19.9 77,600 64,600 123
Butanol 29.2 36.6 91-99
Gasohol (10% ethanol + 90% gasoline) 33.7 145,200 120,900 93/94
Diesel 38.6 45.4 166,600 138,700 25(*)
Biodiesel 33.3-35.7 [12]
Aviation gasoline (high octane gasoline, not jet fuel) 33.5 46.8 144,400 120,200
Jet fuel (kerosene based) 35.1 43.8 151,242 125,935
Liquefied natural gas 25.3 ~55 109,000 90,800
Hydrogen 1-10 121 130[13]

BoyntonStu

[BoyntonStu]

Well that is half the story..... lower octane burns hotter.

Hydrogen burns even hotter than gas, so what?

The energy content is the whole story!

A match burns hot but it has less heat than your body.

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

I would say that its all about the total amount of energy stored per 'unit' and how fast it is released. Compare lighting a stick of dynamite and a piece of wood. Its also how the released energy is harnessed.

People tend to report better mpg with higher octane fuel.

[BoyntonStu]

I would say that its all about the total amount of energy stored per 'unit' and how fast it is released. Compare lighting a stick of dynamite and a piece of wood. Its also how the released energy is harnessed.

People tend to report better mpg with higher octane fuel.

"People tend to report better mpg with higher octane fuel."

They pay a premium for premium.

Premium allows more advanced timing without knocking.

We are attempting to retard using HHO in order to gain power.

I know of no data to support their MPG claims.

Perhaps you can find some?


BoyntonStu

[Painless]

They pay a premium for premium.

Absolutely they do, we certainly pay one heck of a premium for our gasoline in the UK, which starts at 95 octane.


Premium allows more advanced timing without knocking.

To detail further, it reduces the possibility of pre-detonation of the fuel before the spark ignition. Perhaps it is this more predictable burn characteristic that aids the mpg?


We are attempting to retard using HHO in order to gain power.

Introducing HHO supposedly causes the gasoline to reach a stage of combustion where useful work can be done sooner than without it, hence the want to delay the spark ignition.

There is so much about the introduction of HHO that is assumption and not proven fact, does anyone really know for sure what happens inside the combustion chamber as the result of a proper scientific study?

Many modern vehicles use a very advanced ignition to "reduce NOX emissions", my truck tends to utilise 40 degree's before TDC whenever it is cruising. Would retarding ignition timing some on a stock engine that exhibits this behaviour actually result in better MPG?


I know of no data to support their MPG claims.

Perhaps you can find some?

I can only contribute my own personal findings as hard data, I used to have a BMW 328 and achieved 33 mpg quite consistently on the 95 octane. I tested the 97 octane for a few months and found it delivered another 2-3 mpg extra, but this wasn't worth the price difference between the two grades.

Russ.

[BoyntonStu]

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2565/whats-the-difference-between-premium-and-regular-gas

Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money. Some refuse to believe this, claiming, for example, that premium gives the family Toyota better mileage or more power. These people are in dreamland. Others say premium is purer or contains detergents that will cleanse your engine of uncouth deposits. Likewise misguided thinking--government regulations require detergents in all grades of gasoline. (BP Amoco, I notice, asserts that its premium gasoline contains more detergents than legally required; if you think that's worth 20 extra cents a gallon, be my guest.) Some automotive types claim that using premium in a car designed for regular will make the engine dirtier--something about deposits on the back side of the intake valves. I've also heard that slower-burning high-octane gas produces less power when used in ordinary cars. Believe what you like; the point is, don't assume "premium" means "better."


BoyntonStu

[Q-Hack!]

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2565/whats-the-difference-between-premium-and-regular-gas

Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money.

BoyntonStu

I have to laugh... I still can't get my mother to believe me that when she puts the high Octane gas in her Honda Civic that she is just wasting money. She seems to believe that it is cleaner gas. I keep telling her that if she wants cleaner gas, she shouldn't buy it at Sam's club and instead get it from Shell or Chevron (something with a detergent additive.) Oh, but that is too expensive... lol. mom's a riot.

[HHO BLASTER]

I have to laugh... I still can't get my mother to believe me that when she puts the high Octane gas in her Honda Civic that she is just wasting money. She seems to believe that it is cleaner gas. I keep telling her that if she wants cleaner gas, she shouldn't buy it at Sam's club and instead get it from Shell or Chevron (something with a detergent additive.) Oh, but that is too expensive... lol. mom's a riot.

Don't feel bad my father-law does the same thing with his Honda accord LOL

its in their head

[Philldpapill]

I've heard of some aviation equipment intentionally injecting some water into the combustion chamber of some engines. Apparently, when the fuel burns, more of the heat energy goes into changing the phase of the water from liquid to gas, thereby creating MORE expansion, resulting in higher efficiency. Go figure...

[BoyntonStu]

I've heard of some aviation equipment intentionally injecting some water into the combustion chamber of some engines. Apparently, when the fuel burns, more of the heat energy goes into changing the phase of the water from liquid to gas, thereby creating MORE expansion, resulting in higher efficiency. Go figure...

Please show us one specific example.

BoyntonStu

[Q-Hack!]

I've heard of some aviation equipment intentionally injecting some water into the combustion chamber of some engines. Apparently, when the fuel burns, more of the heat energy goes into changing the phase of the water from liquid to gas, thereby creating MORE expansion, resulting in higher efficiency. Go figure...

The only aircraft that I have heard using water injection was the B-52. However the B-52 is a turbine engine which doesn't compare.

[Smitty]

higher octane burns hotter, not lower.