PDA

View Full Version : Why our hobby can save lives!



BoyntonStu
05-20-2009, 07:46 PM
Take a HEAVY car and make it go 35 MPG using HHO, air restriction, etc..

Every single car should be built around a crash cage and no one need die.

If a NASCAR can crash at 200 MPH and save the driver, all the travelers in a light weight car should survive a 80 MPH crash if the car was properly designed .

BoyntonStu




The Sad CAFE By: Steven Milloy
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, May 20, 2009


The Obama administration’s proposed mileage standards that will be announced today may kill more Americans at a faster rate than the Iraq War, * his signature issue in the 2008 presidential campaign.

Obama’s standards will require automakers to meet a 35 miles-per-gallon standard by 2016, * four years earlier than the same standard imposed by the Energy Security and Independence Act of 2007.

The only way for carmakers to meet these standard is to make smaller, lighter -- and deadlier cars.

The National Academy of Sciences has linked mileage standards with about 2,000 deaths per year. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that every 100-pound reduction in the weight of small cars increases annual traffic fatalities by as much as 715.

In contrast in the more than six years since the Iraq war began, there have been 4,296 deaths among American military personnel.

And what will be gained by the new mileage standards?

The Natural Resources Defense Council said that the 35 MPG standard would save about one million gallons of gas per day. So how does that savings balance against the 2,000 fatalities per year that the National Academy of Sciences says are caused by those same lighter cars?

For the sake of being utilitarian, let’s generously assume that the mileage standards reduced the price of gasoline by $1. That would translate to a daily savings of $1 million. Is that savings worth killing more than five people per day, plus other non-fatal injuries and property damage?

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency -- for the purposes of risk assessment -- values a single human life at $6.9 million dollars. So the new mileage standards would cost about $35 million per day in human lives (not including non-fatal injuries) to save $1 million in gas.

There’s also another lesson hidden in the proposed standards, * one that applies to businesses trying to game global warming legislation.

Carmakers lobbied hard against overly stringent mileage standards in the 2007 energy bill, finally negotiating with Congress a compromise standard they thought they at least had a chance to meet. President Obama has now pulled the rug out from under the carmakers and their 2007 deal with Congress.

This ought to serve as a lesson for businesses that are trying to negotiate a climate deal they think they can survive. Rest assured that as soon as business groups agree to a climate deal, the Greens and the Obama administration will go to work the next day figuring out ways to bulldoze the deal in order to make greenhouse gas limitations more stringent and more expensive.

Businesses often operate under the misimpression that they can cut lasting, win-win compromise deals with environmental groups. But such dealing is an impossibility since the Green Left is ideologically driven and will not be happy until capitalism is stamped out. The Greens are not interested in compromise. Like blood in the water to sharks, compromise by businesses signals weakness and vulnerability, and, therefore, opportunity for the Green movement to impose an agenda that is costly in treasure, and costlier in human lives and suffering.

Steven Milloy publishes JunkScience.com and is the author of the forthcoming book, “Green Hell: How Environmentalists Plan to Ruin Your Life and What You Can Do to Stop Them.”

H2OPWR
05-20-2009, 08:29 PM
Stu, You are so correct. Look at what automobiles have that NASCAR does not like airbags everywhere and people still die. In an 80 MPH NASCAR crash many cars only need a couple of pit stops and then usually enter the race again without even losing a lap. A 60 MPH crash on the highway is more dangerous than a 160 MPH crash in NASCAR.

Larry

HHO BLASTER
05-20-2009, 10:29 PM
How do they do it in Europe?

http://img6.travelblog.org/Photos/1317/286158/f/2429576-A-three-wheel-car-one-person-in-front-one-in-back--maybe-all-electric-0.jpg

DodgeViper
05-21-2009, 12:31 AM
70 mph IMPACT...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJHpUO-S0i8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>

DodgeViper
05-21-2009, 12:31 AM
70 mph IMPACT...

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJHpUO-S0i8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

BoyntonStu
05-21-2009, 10:16 AM
70 mph IMPACT...


Notice how many times "steel cage" was mentioned?

My point was proven!

Although the car survived, there was no crash dummy or other data to demonstrate what would happen to passengers.


MHO Mandating 4 or 5 point harnesses for all would safer and cheaper than air bags. (Air bags have killed or injured)


BoyntonStu

Q-Hack!
05-21-2009, 11:00 AM
There are a few other issues than just a steel cage, though that is probably one of the main reasons NASCAR cars are safer. There is also the 5 point harness, neck brace, helmet, and the anti whiplash system. The average human doesn't want to have to deal with that every time they go to the grocery store.

If you want to know how the Europeans manage to have less statistical deaths, even though they tend to drive faster... They don't get a licence until 21, and they have to go through a year of driving school (at least in Germany). Safety ends up being a lifestyle by the time they get their licence. Unlike here in America where every teenager by the age of 16 can have there licence just by passing an incredibly moronic test...

Question 1. What do you do when you come to a red light.

a. Stop
b. Go
c. Yield
d. Check your mirrors

Actual test question from the New Mexico exam and they don't get any harder. Oh, and the actual driving test here is a joke as well. The hardest manoeuvre I had to do was the left hand turn (I think California at least makes you do parallel parking)

No, If we want to make driving safer, we need to follow the Europeans example and stop giving immature teenagers with no training a licence.

Here is one for you Obama... Make driving school mandatory for everybody before they can get there licence. Instant job creation when you set up the schools. A win, win proposition. Safer roads, and more jobs.


Ok, I am off my soap box now.

BoyntonStu
05-21-2009, 01:12 PM
I totally agree. I don't know the statistics but I bet 90% + of the wrecks are caused by the following:

1. Teenage kids
2. People on a cellphone
3. Drunk or impaired drivers
4. Old people driving 20+mph UNDER the speed limit

I think you should have to do a annual driving test to keep your license after the age of 65. The test should be both a real on the road test as well as a VR simulator to put the driver in "situations" to see how they react.

I know some of you old farts will gripe about this but I personally was nearly hit by an elderly driver going down the highway backwards. I have also been behind more than 1 old fart who seriously weaved back and forth between both lanes of traffic as if they could barely keep the car on the asphalt.


Wrecks will happen.

The point is survival and avoidance of injury.

Build a car like an egg crate which is designed to transfer eggs without breaking.


BoyntonStu

nvtowing
05-21-2009, 01:42 PM
In Europe most cars are so small the impact of collisions aren't so bad... Compared to a little car v.s. a Chevy Suburban... Obviously.

But, are all these articles really about about little cars and their safety issues? I mean... If everyone was driving smaller vehicles, fatalities would probably go down as well (or even 10 mph slower) .. So why not write an article on reducing the number of big SUVs on the road to reduce fatalities, or lower the speed limit? I'm willing to bet these articles are more propaganda than anything... I'm not big on conspiracies but If I was an oil company I wouldn't want everyone in the US driving around little Fiats, or scooters.

In the "70 mph IMPACT..." video.. It's clearly a fear tactic.. ('scary' sounds effects and everything)

But the thing is... A suburban will be just as totaled as the little car, and both will be a guaranteed fatality..

Painless
05-21-2009, 07:12 PM
Having been born in the UK and moving to the USA whilst in my 30's I can certainly agree with a lot of the above statements.

In the UK you must be 18 in order to apply for a provisional license (provisional = drive under another drivers supervision). It typically takes approximately a year to reach a skill level where you are likely to pass the driving test. The driving test itself involves a multiple choice exam and a 30 minute drive on the road with the examiner. During the drive he will test your emergency stopping ability (you must keep control and not lock the wheels) along with your parking, reversing around a corner and three point turn capabilities.

Upon reaching the age of 65, you must re-take the above driving test yearly.

I have to admit that I think that 18 is too young for someone to be put in charge of a lethal weapon (which any automobile is), so have to say that the driving age of 16 here in the USA (at least in my state?) scares the living hell out of me. I've already told my son not to count on being able to get a driving license in 3 years when he is 16 until he can demonstrate common sense and responsibility in everyday life first.

People tend to look at cars with a view to them needing to be 'strong' and 'stiff' in order to save them from an impact. A vehicle needs to be engineered to crumple and bend in order to absorb the force of the impact instead of simply transferring that force to the driver.

It should also be considered that, as has already been pointed out, in europe the large majority of vehicles are passenger cars. In the USA, they can be split into a mix of trucks, sedans, SUV's and minivans. What you have here are vehicles that are not compatible from an impact absorbing point of view. If a sedan hits a pickup truck, the hood and front fenders of the sedan (which are designed to absorb the majority of the impact) won't make direct contact with the truck and therefore are hindered from doing their job.

If manufacturers consider making cars less safe in order to conform to the new 35 mpg deadline, they will also need to consider that their vehicles will receive a less appealing NHTSA star safety rating.

I, personally, don't believe that the challenge of increasing mpg without resorting to unsafe methods is that much of an issue for the vehicle manufacturers. If higherpoweredh2o can modify a Z28 Camero to deliver in excess of 700 hp and over 30 mpg with a substantial reduction in emmisions, then I'm sure the auto makers can too. I'm sure the problem lies more in the money they will have to invest in implementing such changes.

Russ.

BoyntonStu
05-21-2009, 07:31 PM
Having been born in the UK and moving to the USA whilst in my 30's I can certainly agree with a lot of the above statements.

In the UK you must be 18 in order to apply for a provisional license (provisional = drive under another drivers supervision). It typically takes approximately a year to reach a skill level where you are likely to pass the driving test. The driving test itself involves a multiple choice exam and a 30 minute drive on the road with the examiner. During the drive he will test your emergency stopping ability (you must keep control and not lock the wheels) along with your parking, reversing around a corner and three point turn capabilities.

Upon reaching the age of 65, you must re-take the above driving test yearly.

I have to admit that I think that 18 is too young for someone to be put in charge of a lethal weapon (which any automobile is), so have to say that the driving age of 16 here in the USA (at least in my state?) scares the living hell out of me. I've already told my son not to count on being able to get a driving license in 3 years when he is 16 until he can demonstrate common sense and responsibility in everyday life first.

People tend to look at cars with a view to them needing to be 'strong' and 'stiff' in order to save them from an impact. A vehicle needs to be engineered to crumple and bend in order to absorb the force of the impact instead of simply transferring that force to the driver.

It should also be considered that, as has already been pointed out, in europe the large majority of vehicles are passenger cars. In the USA, they can be split into a mix of trucks, sedans, SUV's and minivans. What you have here are vehicles that are not compatible from an impact absorbing point of view. If a sedan hits a pickup truck, the hood and front fenders of the sedan (which are designed to absorb the majority of the impact) won't make direct contact with the truck and therefore are hindered from doing their job.

If manufacturers consider making cars less safe in order to conform to the new 35 mpg deadline, they will also need to consider that their vehicles will receive a less appealing NHTSA star safety rating.

I, personally, don't believe that the challenge of increasing mpg without resorting to unsafe methods is that much of an issue for the vehicle manufacturers. If higherpoweredh2o can modify a Z28 Camero to deliver in excess of 700 hp and over 30 mpg with a substantial reduction in emmisions, then I'm sure the auto makers can too. I'm sure the problem lies more in the money they will have to invest in implementing such changes.

Russ.


"If higherpoweredh2o can modify a Z28 Camero to deliver in excess of 700 hp and over 30 mpg with a substantial reduction in emmisions, then I'm sure the auto makers can too. "


Who, what, when, where, and how?


BoyntonStu

nvtowing
05-21-2009, 07:36 PM
Scare tactic?? I think the whole point is to show how safe it is....

You're right, I kind of jumped the gun on that one... Bad example! Unless there was some subliminal message going on... lol..

I still think special interest groups will try to make a big deal out of minor issues that will negatively impact their industry... In attempts to scare or manipulate the public..

Mulenson
05-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Shane, You forgot women!