Bubbler foaming with picture

[sweet7549]

Hi all,
Love the group, but have bubbler foaming also.
A 20% soultion running at 112 degrees. 13.3 volts and looks like 18 amps.
This is in a dry cell.
Any help?
Thanks
R

[truckman1966]

20% solution of what?

[H2OPWR]

Hi all,
Love the group, but have bubbler foaming also.
A 20% soultion running at 112 degrees. 13.3 volts and looks like 18 amps.
This is in a dry cell.
Any help?
Thanks
R

Wow, This has come up alot lately. I simply do not understand why. Over amping the cell is usually a major culprit causing foam and is the only time I have ever seen foam in a cell. What I really do not get is the foam in the bubbler unless it is coming out the exhaust port of your resevoir. Make sure that you are at or under 1 amp per 4 sq inches of active plate surface.

That almost looks like soap bubbles in your picture. Did you clean it with any type of soap that will foam?

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

I have foam in my reservior but it doesn't get through the scrubber to the bubbler.

Dave Nowlin

[bigjim56]

I am/had been experiencing foaming also. (See other foaming thread here, bigjim56 authored)

Whats eliminated it is using a porous sock (the green scrub pad from any dollar store) fitted over the reservoir inlet tube using 2 plastic wire ties. Its all but eliminated the foaming. I now have a concern of the pad deteriorating in the caustic environment of the reservoir, so I'm watching the reservoir bottom closely. A SS brillo pad would work well also, and w/o the concern of deterioration. I just read the bubbler stone thread and that looks to be a worthwhile investment too. I just hope that one of these avenues can withstand the highly caustic treatment that's being thrown at it.

Larry,

I've been thinking about the over amping aspect that you just mentioned, remember, I used shower pan liner for my gasket material on both cells, and for my car cell, I dropped the last stack of the -NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+ initial plate configuration due to concern about it being too big for my cars needs (1.8L) . If the running cell level does not come back to the top with the things I'm trying, I may resort to pulling the cell and adding the last stack.
Whats your thoughts?

Thanks,

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

I am/had been experiencing foaming also. (See other foaming thread here, bigjim56 authored)

Whats eliminated it is using a porous sock (the green scrub pad from any dollar store) fitted over the reservoir inlet tube using 2 plastic wire ties. Its all but eliminated the foaming. I now have a concern of the pad deteriorating in the caustic environment of the reservoir, so I'm watching the reservoir bottom closely. A SS brillo pad would work well also, and w/o the concern of deterioration. I just read the bubbler stone thread and that looks to be a worthwhile investment too. I just hope that one of these avenues can withstand the highly caustic treatment that's being thrown at it.

Larry,

I've been thinking about the over amping aspect that you just mentioned, remember, I used shower pan liner for my gasket material on both cells, and for my car cell, I dropped the last stack of the -NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+ initial plate configuration due to concern about it being too big for my cars needs (1.8L) . If the running cell level does not come back to the top with the things I'm trying, I may resort to pulling the cell and adding the last stack.
Whats your thoughts?

Thanks,

bigjim56

With this technology plate surface is your friend! More plate surface equals less heat and lower watts per square inch. With more plates and more gaps with the same amp draw you will also benefit greatly from there being fewer bubbles in each plate gap. That will improve the ion flow and improve effeciency. I would defenitely add those extra plates.

For what it is worth I would also move to 1/16" neoprene or nitrile for your gaskets. You will have fewer leaking problems in the future. Painless has had much trouble trying to keep the shower pan liner from leaking.

Nitrile is better than neoprene but works well and costs about half. You should be able to get enough neoprene to make all the gaskets you would need for under $20.00. I also think you would have less trouble keeping the cell full with slightly wider gaps. The bubbles will have more room to escape and take less electrolite with it.

Just my opinion.

Larry

[bigjim56]

Thanks for responding so quickly Larry. What you say makes a lot of sense. I will pull the cell and install the additional stack as quick as the timing allows.

I have not had a leakage problem w/the shower pan gasket material. When I first completed the first cell, I filled with DI and observed over an 8 hr. shift...I saw a couple of drops, retorqued the bolts and no leak since.

I did retorque the bolts after the last time I pulled it to shave some side/corner wall to allow for better engine compartment adaptation. (To fit in lower 1-2") You reminded me to retorque after a week or 2 of use, which I did.

The wider gap will help to eliminate electrolite carryover and also encourage a full cell moreso...I do agree.

Thanks,

bigjim56

[hhoconnection]

Try using foam disperser from a pool store. It is used in hot tubs to control foam. Pour a tiny amount in your reservoir and you will kill all the foam. Here is a link to a video I did on this subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gTi7ieDUI&feature=channel_page

Good Luck!

[Davehho1]

Drain and clean your cell, the only time (s) that I have had any foaming issues is either some of the Tap water in my last bubbler got sucked into the tank or I had a little soap residue left from cleaning the plates.

Also: Ive switched to neopreme gaskets ( 1/16th gap) and after one run up to 120 degrees F, I had to tighten down the bolts and haven't had to touch em since..

[gizzy]

I've had this problem for some time now and the situation is getting scare y due to the koh getting into the engine. I looked at this video twice now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gTi...e=channel_page
and I,m asking if anyone has used this product? And also, in the long term, is it diluting the electrolyte? Also I changed out my system say 6 mos ago from smack cells to a 36 plate dry cell.

[hhoconnection]

I've had this problem for some time now and the situation is getting scare y due to the koh getting into the engine. I looked at this video twice now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0gTi...e=channel_page
and I,m asking if anyone has used this product? And also, in the long term, is it diluting the electrolyte? Also I changed out my system say 6 mos ago from smack cells to a 36 plate dry cell.

The link does not seem to be working but it looks like you were referring to my video about the foam disperser. I can tell you that many people have tried it since I made this video and everyone has had great results. It does not seem to effect the electrolyte at all. It only takes a tiny amount to do the trick. If you are having foam issues you really should try it. You will still get foaming from the cell but as soon as it hits the reservoir, it's gone!

[hg2]

I solved my foaming problem by using a 1" return line back to the reservoir,I mounted the drain at the bottom of the bubbler,and my inlet fittings about 1 1/2" above the bottom,and the outlet at the top.No fluid in the bubbler stops foam from forming.

[gizzy]

I solved my foaming problem by using a 1" return line back to the reservoir,I mounted the drain at the bottom of the bubbler,and my inlet fittings about 1 1/2" above the bottom,and the outlet at the top.No fluid in the bubbler stops foam from forming.
I appreciate your pics and I noticed you have a reservoir and a bubbler. The 1" line is awesome and I could see how that would work, but in my vehicle I don,t have the space or another bubbler or modifying my generator or reservoir for a 1" hose. I'm stuck on this issue.

[gizzy]

The link does not seem to be working but it looks like you were referring to my video about the foam disperser. I can tell you that many people have tried it since I made this video and everyone has had great results. It does not seem to effect the electrolyte at all. It only takes a tiny amount to do the trick. If you are having foam issues you really should try it. You will still get foaming from the cell but as soon as it hits the reservoir, it's gone!

Really. Is this your video. I found it very informative. I have a short run with my hoses to my generator and relatively close to level as possible with my generator and the reservoir. After a while my electrolyte water turned brown an this is when my issues came about. Also I've been having to fill my reservoir periodically. It appears that with this issue my intake is sucking in the foam. I'm not doubting at all if the pool foaming disperser works or not. I was just wondering and sorta concerned with the long term issues if any. Have you tried it in a a longer term situation?

[hhoconnection]

I have used the foam disperser for long periods with no side effects at all. If you are getting brown water, this means rust which could be several things. If you are using a cheaper grade stainless steel than 316L, this can cause rust. If you are getting more than 2.2 volts per plate gap and especially if you are not using neutral plates at all you will get rust. Also if you are using tap water and not distilled water you can get rust. Other than that something else could have contaminated your water. I would break down your cell, clean everything real good then start with a fresh batch. Get some foam disperser and mix a tiny amount with your electrolyte before you pour it in the reservoir. I guarantee it will work.

If you are having to refill your reservoir constantly I would think that is an overheating issue and you are boiling water away. Are you running 4 or 5 neutrals? If you are, is your cell getting really hot over time? If it is heating up then maybe you are over-driving your cell. Even dry cells have their limits as to how many amps you can feed them until they overheat, even at 2.0 volts/plate gap.

What I have found since making that video is that I could not get enough flow from my reservoir to my cell with the reservoir this low. In my battery box configuration, the reservoir is just barely high enough to create enough flow to cool the cell. Anything over 15 amps and it heats up over time. I think to do this right and to keep the foam from leaving the cell I need to keep the input to the reservoir lower than the output of the cell like I show in the video. I do think a pump is necessary to give the flow needed to keep the cell cool in this configuration. I still have not played around with pumps yet because I just kind of learned to accept some foam coming from the cell. Because of the foam disperser in my reservoir water, I never have to worry about foam getting in any of my lines. Foam never has a chance to build up in the reservoir.

Good Luck!

[gizzy]

I have used the foam disperser for long periods with no side effects at all. If you are getting brown water, this means rust which could be several things. If you are using a cheaper grade stainless steel than 316L, this can cause rust. If you are getting more than 2.2 volts per plate gap and especially if you are not using neutral plates at all you will get rust. Also if you are using tap water and not distilled water you can get rust. Other than that something else could have contaminated your water. I would break down your cell, clean everything real good then start with a fresh batch. Get some foam disperser and mix a tiny amount with your electrolyte before you pour it in the reservoir. I guarantee it will work.

If you are having to refill your reservoir constantly I would think that is an overheating issue and you are boiling water away. Are you running 4 or 5 neutrals? If you are, is your cell getting really hot over time? If it is heating up then maybe you are over-driving your cell. Even dry cells have their limits as to how many amps you can feed them until they overheat, even at 2.0 volts/plate gap.

What I have found since making that video is that I could not get enough flow from my reservoir to my cell with the reservoir this low. In my battery box configuration, the reservoir is just barely high enough to create enough flow to cool the cell. Anything over 15 amps and it heats up over time. I think to do this right and to keep the foam from leaving the cell I need to keep the input to the reservoir lower than the output of the cell like I show in the video. I do think a pump is necessary to give the flow needed to keep the cell cool in this configuration. I still have not played around with pumps yet because I just kind of learned to accept some foam coming from the cell. Because of the foam disperser in my reservoir water, I never have to worry about foam getting in any of my lines. Foam never has a chance to build up in the reservoir.

Good Luck!

Thank you for your feed back. Yesterday I serviced my generator. It is 316 stainless and I came up with a couple conclusions. For one my temp runs around 140-150 which really wasn't the problem with any overheating issues and loosing electrolyte having to top it off periodically. What was happening and I thought this before is with it foaming while running. My intake has been sucking the foam out of the reservoir. And as far as the brown sludge, I cleaned my generator and bubbler. It took me about two hours. I ran CLR with distilled water several time and I finally got everything to run clear. Scrubbed out my bubbler real good. I then ran out to the pool store and got the Foam Disperser like you suggested. I noticed a big difference right away. NO foam. Also I'm pulling around 20amps producing around 2 1/2 lpm. As far as the brown water. I never serviced my generator since I installed it and made a couple of long trips with my vehicle. Through time is what I believe caused my issue. I should of serviced my generator within a week after running it. So this was my fault. So I wanted to let you know that so far what I have seen with the foaming issue my intake hose is clear, thanks to your advice.

[hhoconnection]

So I wanted to let you know that so far what I have seen with the foaming issue my intake hose is clear, thanks to your advice.

Excellent! :D