Flashback prevention revisited...

[bigjim56]

I'm ready for the dry cell install in my car, in fact I may start it today. What has slowed me down and almost stopped me in my tracks is the idea of flashback protection. I've opted for the thin plastic membranes (2) for my set up so far.

This is my setup as it sits now...

My dry cell exhausts HHO to the 1-1.5 quart reservoir where it emits from the top of the reservoir and makes its way to the opposing end and then goes on to a small 1-2 pint pvc bubbler and exhausts at the bottom of the bubbler to cleanse itself. After the bubbler it goes directly to the intake (K&N filter).
Both the reservoir lid (baseball size) and the bubbler lid (water hose fitting) have plastic membranes with rubber washers that seal very well and are very responsive to finger pressure applied to check for sensitivity. If there was to be a flashback, the smaller water hose size membrane would blow first, then if it followed the supply tubing further, the bigger reservoir membrane would supply a larger blowout protection before the dry cell.

On an earlier post I had the dry cell exhausting to the BOTTOM of the reservoir mainly due to foaming and wanting to break up the bubbles, after reading more posts, I have since reworked this to where it exhausts to the top...and any resultant foam or electrolite will trickle down to the reservoir level.

I'm aware that a lot of flashbacks occur because of low levels in either the reservoir or bubbler providing an unsafe buildup of HHO, I will have refill containers on board for these, and will keep the level in these high.

Those running on board HHO systems currently, do I have enough flashback prevention with the 2 membranes in my set up? I was tempted to use the steel wool packed tube, but I really don't want any backpressure and I think the way that these are made, backpressure is inherent.


Thanks for the replies,

bigjim56

[Gforce]

I agree with you about the back pressure. HHO Cells don't like back pressure at least in the 1-3L/min range. I avoid even using 90 degree fittings. on the output and minimum 3/8" tubing. I just got back from a 1K mile trip with only membrane on bubbler and pressure plug on reservoir. No problems. I think especially because the fact you input the gas upstream from intake you should not have issues. Only question I would have is how large your plugs are. I use 1 1/2" slip fittings used for sink drains. I blew one out playing with a torch and you would be amazed at the speed and violence of the explosion. One night we played around with using 500ml water bottles as HHO rockets and most of the time the bottle exploded because the hole was insufficient to allow the pressure out fast enough.

[Roland Jacques]

I'm ready for the dry cell install in my car, in fact I may start it today. What has slowed me down and almost stopped me in my tracks is the idea of flashback protection. I've opted for the thin plastic membranes (2) for my set up so far.

This is my setup as it sits now...

My dry cell exhausts HHO to the 1-1.5 quart reservoir where it emits from the top of the reservoir and makes its way to the opposing end and then goes on to a small 1-2 pint pvc bubbler and exhausts at the bottom of the bubbler to cleanse itself. After the bubbler it goes directly to the intake (K&N filter).
Both the reservoir lid (baseball size) and the bubbler lid (water hose fitting) have plastic membranes with rubber washers that seal very well and are very responsive to finger pressure applied to check for sensitivity. If there was to be a flashback, the smaller water hose size membrane would blow first, then if it followed the supply tubing further, the bigger reservoir membrane would supply a larger blowout protection before the dry cell.

Sounds like a good set up.

On an earlier post I had the dry cell exhausting to the BOTTOM of the reservoir mainly due to foaming and wanting to break up the bubbles, after reading more posts, I have since reworked this to where it exhausts to the top...and any resultant foam or electrolite will trickle down to the reservoir level.

Yep

I'm aware that a lot of flashbacks occur because of low levels in either the reservoir or bubbler providing an unsafe buildup of HHO,

No not really, the larger gas content does not cause flash backs, it just allows for bigger bang when they do flash back
I will have refill containers on board for these, and will keep the level in these high.

Those running on board HHO systems currently, do I have enough flashback prevention with the 2 membranes in my set up? I was tempted to use the steel wool packed tube, but I really don't want any backpressure and I think the way that these are made, backpressure is inherent.


Thanks for the replies,

bigjim56
It sound like plenty and like pointed out your input is before you air filter reduces chance of flash back a lot. (Besides if you flash back all the way to before your air filter, your hho system may be the least of your worries.)

I think a relay hooked up to your gas pump or... to insure your cell is not running when your car motor is not running is the most important flashback protection.

PS. I never experienced backpressure having any impact on HHO production. Please give examples if you have experience of that happening.

[wickedrevs56]

i have not seen any technical data on making a HHo torch -- anybody have any experiments in this area?-- if so how do you prevent the flashback thru the orifice-- i want to use / create a burner to heat water with a hho generatormake a good still!!!!?!?

[Q-Hack!]

i have not seen any technical data on making a HHo torch -- anybody have any experiments in this area?-- if so how do you prevent the flashback thru the orifice-- i want to use / create a burner to heat water with a hho generatormake a good still!!!!?!?

There are many youtube videos on this subject... basically you take a 4 inch piece of 1/2 inch tubing and stuff it tightly with fine bronze wool. Mine also has two pieces of stainless steel mesh on each end to keep the bronze wool from catching fire (at least that is my thinking). I cut the stainless steel mesh out of a couple of screens that go into the end of a washing machine hose. On one end of the 4 inch tube I screwed a 1/2 inch MIP to 1/4 compression fitting that I then drilled out to fit a mig welding tip. On the other end I added a brass ball valve to allow me to turn on/off the flow of HHO to the torch. It works quite well as long as I can supply it with about 3-4LPM (or more). I can keep a flame lit with only 2LPM but it doesn't work as nicely.

I will say this, having access to a gas torch in the field was a godsend back in October last year. I broke the steel foot off of my telescope tripod during the Okey-Tex star party. I just dug out my torch and fixed it on the spot. I never leave home without it now.

[DodgeViper]

i have not seen any technical data on making a HHo torch -- anybody have any experiments in this area?-- if so how do you prevent the flashback thru the orifice-- i want to use / create a burner to heat water with a hho generatormake a good still!!!!?!?

Make sure that you have the shut-off valve at the rear of the torch. Also I used a MIG welding tip of .035. In my system I need to keep the amps up above 20 amps and perfer to be in the 30 amp range to produce enough hho gas. My torch is made of ALL brass with the handle packed with FINE bronze wool. Do a search of my username and look for Dry Cell Project, you will see what happens when you allow to much HHO to build up inside a bubbler and then have a flashback. This is why I have gone to long neck bubbler to direct the HHO gas to the highest point within the bubbler.

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[DodgeViper]

PS. I never experienced backpressure having any impact on HHO production. Please give examples if you have experience of that happening.

With my bubbler 3/8 tube to the intake wide open and running at about 60 AMPS I am producing nearly 4 LPM, but when I attach my .035 mig welding tipped torch to the bubbler my amps fall nearly in half and the LPM drops as well....

[bigjim56]

"With my bubbler 3/8 tube to the intake wide open and running at about 60 AMPS I am producing nearly 4 LPM, but when I attach my .035 mig welding tipped torch to the bubbler my amps fall nearly in half and the LPM drops as well...."

Thanks Dodgeviper,

That again confirms my belief that back pressure reduces HHO output. Backpressure is the primary reason I stayed away from the bronze wool stuffed tube for flashback prevention. The thin membrane blowout is very easy to implement and keeps the HHO free flow to a maximum. Also, I maintain the 5/16" - 3/8" tubing diameter consistant from cell to intake.

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

"With my bubbler 3/8 tube to the intake wide open and running at about 60 AMPS I am producing nearly 4 LPM, but when I attach my .035 mig welding tipped torch to the bubbler my amps fall nearly in half and the LPM drops as well...."

Thanks Dodgeviper,

That again confirms my belief that back pressure reduces HHO output. Backpressure is the primary reason I stayed away from the bronze wool stuffed tube for flashback prevention. The thin membrane blowout is very easy to implement and keeps the HHO free flow to a maximum. Also, I maintain the 5/16" - 3/8" tubing diameter consistant from cell to intake.

bigjim56

Back pressure can be very helpful in HHO production. Just not with a dry cell. Backpressure forces the e-lite out the fill holes lowering the amount of e-lite in the cell. That is what drops production.

Larry