Bubbler idea for removing KOH

[BoyntonStu]

KOH attacks aluminum.

Place strips of aluminum in the bubbler.


If any corrosion is observed:

Bubbler contains KOH.

OTOH The corrosion will neutralize the KOH to some extent.

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

Stu,

If I remember correctly, KOH doesn't get used up in that reaction.

Russ.

[Roland Jacques]

The detection idea sounds intresting. Does it attack alclad /pure aluminum or aluminum alloys?

Painless has a coil design that can remove the moister form the gases. i used one and it was effective. if all the mosture is removed then so is the KOH

Downside we remove the water mist, that can possable have mpg benifits.

[Painless]

Roland,

I use a second bubbler with a large airstone in the bottom to add the moisture back.

In Walmart's fishtank section, they do long airstones (not the bulb shaped ones).

Russ.

[jriggs_18]

That would be fine to detect KOH but its not something that you would want to be used when installed in your vehicle, aluminum reacting with KOH will produce hydrogen, and could potentially fill your intake up when your vehicle is running.

[Roland Jacques]

Good idea Russ.

I think you just ansewered a question of how best to add mosture/mist too intake air.

A second bubbler with smaller bubbles (from the air stone) and take it another step. Not exatly sure how yet. Steam carries much more mosture than cooler air. So make the second bubbler with a heat exchanger built in so that water can be heated. Get the heat from the engine cooling water 195 degrees. i could posable lower temp (if im using to much water) by regulating the engine water flow.

[Roland Jacques]

That would be fine to detect KOH but its not something that you would want to be used when installed in your vehicle, aluminum reacting with KOH will produce hydrogen, and could potentially fill your intake up when your vehicle is running.

LOL!!!!
Yeah we wouldn't want hydrogen in the intake while the engine is running:D:D:D

[BoyntonStu]

Stu,

If I remember correctly, KOH doesn't get used up in that reaction.

Russ.

Russ,

I will check the reaction, however you never get something for nothing.

BoyntonStu

[jriggs_18]

That would be fine to detect KOH but its not something that you would want to be used when installed in your vehicle, aluminum reacting with KOH will produce hydrogen, and could potentially fill your intake up when your vehicle is running.

OOPS, I mean "isnt running"

[bigjim56]

I've been trial running/breaking in my dry cell at work. I have the HHO from the dry cell enter the bottom of a bubbler/reservoir that contains a small plastic eye cup that has many holes to diffuse the foam. At the top of the reservoir it exhausts to the bottom of a 2nd (smaller) bubbler that I purchased from E-bay. The pH of the electrolite in the cell (3 level teaspoons KOH/gal. DI) is 12.85.

I put straight deionized water in the second bubbler (pH= 7.0-7.3). After 24 hours of running I retested the water and the pH was 9.05. It's obvious that some of the KOH is being carried over into the 2nd bubbler, though not much. I will probably try a 3rd bubbler test to see if ANY pH increase is encountered in it. I would venture to say that w/a neutralizing solution of a slightly acidic mixture (lemon juice/vinegar) in my 2nd bubbler that the effects of the KOH to engine intake would be eliminated. Periodic flush of the reservoir would be warranted.

Lastly, the effluent of the 2nd bubbler has a 3-4" head before it exhausts, so the chance of droplets being drawn in from bubbling are minute. That, and coupled with the fact that my temperature monitoring showed no rise at all in temperature during my entire run (2nd bubbler) is pretty strong proof that just a 2nd bubbler is protection enough. However, the extreme temps. from the summer and being under the hood has me cautious about that. My 3rd bubbler test needs to be run in a heated environment.

bigjim56

[BoyntonStu]

I've been trial running/breaking in my dry cell at work. I have the HHO from the dry cell enter the bottom of a bubbler/reservoir that contains a small plastic eye cup that has many holes to diffuse the foam. At the top of the reservoir it exhausts to the bottom of a 2nd (smaller) bubbler that I purchased from E-bay. The pH of the electrolite in the cell (3 level teaspoons KOH/gal. DI) is 12.85.

I put straight deionized water in the second bubbler (pH= 7.0-7.3). After 24 hours of running I retested the water and the pH was 9.05. It's obvious that some of the KOH is being carried over into the 2nd bubbler, though not much. I will probably try a 3rd bubbler test to see if ANY pH increase is encountered in it. I would venture to say that w/a neutralizing solution of a slightly acidic mixture (lemon juice/vinegar) in my 2nd bubbler that the effects of the KOH to engine intake would be eliminated. Periodic flush of the reservoir would be warranted.

Lastly, the effluent of the 2nd bubbler has a 3-4" head before it exhausts, so the chance of droplets being drawn in from bubbling are minute. That, and coupled with the fact that my temperature monitoring showed no rise at all in temperature during my entire run (2nd bubbler) is pretty strong proof that just a 2nd bubbler is protection enough. However, the extreme temps. from the summer and being under the hood has me cautious about that. My 3rd bubbler test needs to be run in a heated environment.

bigjim56


Is this your setup?

Reservoir/bubbler ph 12.85

2nd bubbler ph 9.05

If it is correct?

How are you measuring ph?

Would a piece of Aluminum react in the 9.05 ph?

BoyntonStu

[Roland Jacques]

I've been trial running/breaking in my dry cell at work. I have the HHO from the dry cell enter the bottom of a bubbler/reservoir that contains a small plastic eye cup that has many holes to diffuse the foam. At the top of the reservoir it exhausts to the bottom of a 2nd (smaller) bubbler that I purchased from E-bay. The pH of the electrolite in the cell (3 level teaspoons KOH/gal. DI) is 12.85.

I put straight deionized water in the second bubbler (pH= 7.0-7.3). After 24 hours of running I retested the water and the pH was 9.05. It's obvious that some of the KOH is being carried over into the 2nd bubbler, though not much. I will probably try a 3rd bubbler test to see if ANY pH increase is encountered in it. I would venture to say that w/a neutralizing solution of a slightly acidic mixture (lemon juice/vinegar) in my 2nd bubbler that the effects of the KOH to engine intake would be eliminated. Periodic flush of the reservoir would be warranted.

Lastly, the effluent of the 2nd bubbler has a 3-4" head before it exhausts, so the chance of droplets being drawn in from bubbling are minute. That, and coupled with the fact that my temperature monitoring showed no rise at all in temperature during my entire run (2nd bubbler) is pretty strong proof that just a 2nd bubbler is protection enough. However, the extreme temps. from the summer and being under the hood has me cautious about that. My 3rd bubbler test needs to be run in a heated environment.

bigjim56
A standard bubbler offers minimum interface (like less than 5%) of whatever is in the gas/vapor and the solution. So If theis to remove mist/vapor you'll need max interface with some surface ether the solution or a hard surface. If the bubbles in our bubblers where like 0.5 mm in dia you would be a fair amount of interface. The solution IMO is to have your gas/vapor travel through a coil of tubing. ive done this in the past and seems to be many times more effective than a standard bubbler.

I like your idea of checking the PH, I used a hydrometer

[BoyntonStu]

A standard bubbler offers minimum interface (like less than 5%) of whatever is in the gas/vapor and the solution. So If theis to remove mist/vapor you'll need max interface with some surface ether the solution or a hard surface. If the bubbles in our bubblers where like 0.5 mm in dia you would be a fair amount of interface. The solution IMO is to have your gas/vapor travel through a coil of tubing. ive done this in the past and seems to be many times more effective than a standard bubbler.

I like your idea of checking the PH, I used a hydrometer

Chart of hydrometer reading vs ph?

Fill the bubbler with Aluminum wool?

Use a disposable Aluminum coil?

BoyntonStu

[bigjim56]

Stu,

I work at a midwest water treatment facility. There is a Lab upstairs that has very accurate pH meters for use, plus a very nice deionized water fed dishwasher that does a primo job on SS plates at high temperature. Thanks for the interesting thread here.

Roland,

The eye cup w/numerous small holes is doing a good job of disbursing and breaking the bigger bubbles up. This allows a slightly >5% interface w/source electrolite for the purpose of cleansing the effluent HHO from the cell. To ensure that the bubbles are'nt crippled by the small holes and being backed up, farther down the sides I have 4 - 1/4" holes to allow overflow to run out.

I do like the coil design that is present in the MK2 design and I am trying to think of a way to implement that idea into my setup. I used shower pan liner for my gasket material, so I'm looking very hard at ANYTHING that can be done to lower operating temperatures.

By the way, the lids to the 1st and 2nd bubblers have been drilled and hollowed out, allowing for the "plastic bag" idea of a pressure blowout safety,
in case of a flashback. This seems to be working very well. Both are airtight and respond nicely to finger pressure on the final effluent of second bubbler.
The first bubbler/reservoir blowout protection is 3-31/2" wide , while the second is the size of a water hose fitting w/1/2" blowout plastic film being used. How much more protection for a flashback do I need? I was looking at the rod w/steel wool stuffed, but a thread I recently read said no metal whatsoever is to be used on the supply side of the HHO setup. Your thoughts?

bigjim56

[DodgeViper]

Here is what I am going to try in my 1st and 2nd bubbler. The dip tubes will encompass a tee fitting. The dip tubes will have hundreds of perforated holes of a few thousands of an inch. The dip tubes will be at the bottom of each bubbler with each bubbler packed with plastic scouring pads. The idea is to make small bubbles and then have the bubble rise up through the scouring pads so that the pads help to break up the bubble even more. The smaller the bubble the better. Watch the video below.


http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/P1010160.JPG

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/Image2.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/P1010141.jpg

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/drA1MGqMzQc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[H2OPWR]

[QUOTE=DodgeViper;26238]Here is what I am going to try in my 1st and 2nd bubbler. The dip tubes will encompass a tee fitting. The dip tubes will have hundreds of perforated holes of a few thousands of an inch. The dip tubes will be at the bottom of each bubbler with each bubbler packed with plastic scouring pads. The idea is to make small bubbles and then have the bubble rise up through the scouring pads so that the pads help to break up the bubble even more. The smaller the bubble the better. Watch the video below.


Nice Idea.

Larry

[bigjim56]

Viper,

just saw the video, looks like an excellent idea. Would definately add more holes to overcome back pressure. Thats what concerns me w/using the spark arrestor, seems with all the "stuffing", that it would supress the HHO output. Looks like your using the plastic membrane method on your bubbler/reservoir too. What other flashback safety items are you using?

bigjim56

[DodgeViper]

Viper,

just saw the video, looks like an excellent idea. Would definately add more holes to overcome back pressure. Thats what concerns me w/using the spark arrestor, seems with all the "stuffing", that it would supress the HHO output. Looks like your using the plastic membrane method on your bubbler/reservoir too. What other flashback safety items are you using?

bigjim56


The plastic membrane is all I am using in both bubblers. The spark arrestors all seem to have back pressure that I have tried. The key is to keep as little HHO in the bubbler nearest to the intake. This is why I have gone to the long neck tank bubblers so that I can tap the neck up high. If you do a search of my username and look for my thread called My Dry Cell Project, you will see what happens when you allow too much HHO gas to collect in the bubbler and have a flashback. Granted I was using a torch but I had allowed the HHO gas to nearly fill the entire bubbler and had a HUGE EXPLOSION…

I poked a couple more hundred holes and now it works fantastic!!! Very little restriction when blowing through the hose. I think using 3/8" surgical tubing would be best as the holes in the tubing would open and close easily and not allow electrolyte to fill up the circular tubing when no HHO gas is present in the tube. With the surgical tubing being more pliable may allow the holes to expand this diminishing in pressure within the electrolizer.

I am going to post another video with the dip tube attached to the electrolizer sometime today. I also have some 3/8" sugical tubing laying around that I will try.

[BoyntonStu]

The plastic membrane is all I am using in both bubblers. The spark arrestors all seem to have back pressure that I have tried. The key is to keep as little HHO in the bubbler nearest to the intake. This is why I have gone to the long neck tank bubblers so that I can tap the neck up high. If you do a search of my username and look for my thread called My Dry Cell Project, you will see what happens when you allow too much HHO gas to collect in the bubbler and have a flashback. Granted I was using a torch but I had allowed the HHO gas to nearly fill the entire bubbler and had a HUGE EXPLOSION…

I poked a couple more hundred holes and now it works fantastic!!! Very little restriction when blowing through the hose. I think using 3/8" surgical tubing would be best as the holes in the tubing would open and close easily and not allow electrolyte to fill up the circular tubing when no HHO gas is present in the tube. With the surgical tubing being more pliable may allow the holes to expand this diminishing in pressure within the electrolizer.

I am going to post another video with the dip tube attached to the electrolizer sometime today. I also have some 3/8" sugical tubing laying around that I will try.

How did you drill/make the holes.

It has been my experience that back pressure if anything, increases electrolysis.

High pressure and temp is good.


Dry Cell Alpha pressurized 2.75"x 2.75" cell 5.52 mmw 2.4 lpm 35A /6.67 mmw 15A 1.24LPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCaxa6mUa0

BoyntonStu

[DodgeViper]

How did you drill/make the holes.

It has been my experience that back pressure if anything, increases electrolysis.

High pressure and temp is good.


Dry Cell Alpha pressurized 2.75"x 2.75" cell 5.52 mmw 2.4 lpm 35A /6.67 mmw 15A 1.24LPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCaxa6mUa0

BoyntonStu

Second test of the multi hole dip tube. I placed both videos together so that you can start both and view the output production... The first video is with about 100 holes while the second video is with 500 holes... You can use the pause button to start both videos to show the output at the same time to compare.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/drA1MGqMzQc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QfCg5mtLeoo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[bigjim56]

Looks great Viper! The smaller holes are a big improvement from the big bubbles that are prevalent in dry cell operation. I like your green scrub pad idea for additional scrubbing of effluent from the reservoir, thats an idea I can use. I was thinking of the plastic brillo pads that are out there, but this is obviously a better choice. Much more pad interface.

I have seen your thread on "My dry cell project" and you have an excellent setup, I wish I had that much room in the front of my vehicle, I'm much more squeezed. I'm surprised you have'nt actually injected the HHO yet, I know your concern for the caustic injection is warranted, but with all the room you have, a 3rd bubbler w/DI would be more than enough protection. Just either buy a cheap pH meter, or get a pH test connection and periodically test the DI, if the pH starts to increase just dump/flush/refill. In the winter months use DI w/alcohol, or even windsheild washer fluid.

Also, I was thinking maybe a saturated membrane might somehow work. In the upper part of the bubbler by the HHO effluent, a moist membrane of slightly acidic nature could be a final filter before the intake. One last bit of protection.

bigjim56

[BoyntonStu]

I cut open a Pepsi can and removed the top an bottom.

I reverse rolled it (Pepsi paint side out) and I placed it inside my Snapple bubbler.

15 minutes later, the bubbles, foam, and gas are evident.

IOW Hydrogen is being produced.

It is a good tell tale.

I will see tomorrow if the action has stopped.

If gas production is continuing, I will add some vinegar until it stops.

FWIW

BoyntonStu

[Roland Jacques]

Nice job with the bubble diffuser.

The scrub pad in the water collum will bump up interface a lot. As long as the bubbles flow trough it relatively freely so they don’t bunch up and form larger bubbles. I used the plastic gutter guard material for anti splashing at the top of the bubbler, it would probably work fairly well for that also.
( FWIW Gutter guard also comes in aluminum)

Here’s a company that sells all kinds of larger air bubbler diffusers that can except large hoses, with minimum back pressure (Sweetwater brand may be a good choice) http://www.aquaticeco.com/search/0/airstone

They also sell PH meters..., hydrometers, refractometers, conductivity meters, tds meters.
Hydrometer is probably not sensitive enough to detect small amount of KOH. But hydrometer are good check that your electrolyte is at where you want it to be.
PH meter would be better for seeing if trace koh is transferring. (Conductivity meter may be the best choice but they pricey and...) With the PH meter You can gauge how much KOH is getting in your bubbler, by using a second container with the same amount of ( and the same sample) “distilled” water. Then count how many drops of your electrolyte solution it takes to reach the PH you measured in the second bubbler.

[DodgeViper]

It has been my experience that back pressure if anything, increases electrolysis.

High pressure and temp is good.

BoyntonStu

Boynton,

Here is something I noticed today. With no output tubing attached to my bubbler my electrolizer will run about 60 amps as I do not have a CCPWM currently installed and maintain the amps due to the electrolytes.

What I did notice is that when I attached my torch with the 0.35 tip my amps fell to 33 amps with the back pressure.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/320b9NGiFU0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

[DodgeViper]

I finished my final bubbler using the tee fitting multi hole dip tube. I decided to punture the tube with hundreds of more holes with between 750 to 1000 holes. Getting the complete assembly down a 1.5" hole was a challenge. Then I had to connect the 3/8" hose through the threaded top of the bubbler to the tee fitting. Followed by connecting the tube to the 90 degree fitting and thread the fitting into the top of the bubbler.

Next I decided against the scouring pad after cutting a pad to fit the bubbler. The idea was to have the scouring pad help hold down the multi hole dip tube, this did not work out. I ended up stuffing the bubbler with was one of those shower nylon puffy balls that women use to scrub their body with. I took the ball apart and ended up with this fishnet netting that completely filled the bubbler.

I filled the bubbler and blew on the inlet fitting, it appears to work great. Next I will have to run some test to see what kind of AMPS, LPM's I get through the bubbler. With some restriction I will see a lowering in amps, but will have to see the LPM output.

[Painless]

DodgeViper,

If you have one of those tire inflation compressors with a PSI gauge, connect that up and see how high the pressure gets. This should be a good indication of back pressure.

Russ.

[BoyntonStu]

I cut open a Pepsi can and removed the top an bottom.

I reverse rolled it (Pepsi paint side out) and I placed it inside my Snapple bubbler.

15 minutes later, the bubbles, foam, and gas are evident.

IOW Hydrogen is being produced.

It is a good tell tale.

I will see tomorrow if the action has stopped.

If gas production is continuing, I will add some vinegar until it stops.

FWIW

BoyntonStu

Magic! The Pepsi can almost disappeared.

Placing aluminum in the final bubbler serves as a good tell tale for KOH trouble.

If you see any bubble action, dump and refill.

The thin aluminum used in soda cans is very sensitive to KOH.

My next step is to make a second bubbler and acidifying bubbler #1.


This bubbler design is going to make Snapple and Pepsi happy.

BoyntonStu

[DodgeViper]

With truck idling the electrolizer is pulling 60 amps when I connected my second bubbler with the multi hole dip tube. My amps fell to 28 amps and my HHO output diminished greatly. My volts across 1 cell at 60 amps are 12.61 volts and between the positive and the first neutral plate was 2.45 volts at 60 amps.

The multi hole dip tube placed way to much restriction on the electrolizer much like when I run the torch. I think I am going to take a piece of 3/8” pvc and cap one end and fit a hose barb on the other end. Then I am going to drill a series of holes so that the holes are spaced evenly and each hole of about 1/32 of an inch. I am not going to stop drilling until I can get the flow to equal what the flow is on an open end dip tube. :mad::mad::mad:

[H2OPWR]

With truck idling the electrolizer is pulling 60 amps when I connected my second bubbler with the multi hole dip tube. My amps fell to 28 amps and my HHO output diminished greatly. My volts across 1 cell at 60 amps are 12.61 volts and between the positive and the first neutral plate was 2.45 volts at 60 amps.

The multi hole dip tube placed way to much restriction on the electrolizer much like when I run the torch. I think I am going to take a piece of 3/8” pvc and cap one end and fit a hose barb on the other end. Then I am going to drill a series of holes so that the holes are spaced evenly and each hole of about 1/32 of an inch. I am not going to stop drilling until I can get the flow to equal what the flow is on an open end dip tube. :mad::mad::mad:

I beleive that your problem is simpler than that to solve. Whai I would bet is happening is thet the pressure is pushing your e-lite backwards out of your cell through the fill line. Your e-lite in your cell would lower keeping a portion of your cell from making HHO. I plugged the outlet on my cell yesterday colpletely to check for leaks. I let the pressure build up to 10 PSI. The amp draw did not go down at all in fact it went up slightly. My cell has no low return holes and can not push out the water. I would bet that a well placed check valve would solve your problem.

Larry

[DodgeViper]

I beleive that your problem is simpler than that to solve. Whai I would bet is happening is thet the pressure is pushing your e-lite backwards out of your cell through the fill line. Your e-lite in your cell would lower keeping a portion of your cell from making HHO. I plugged the outlet on my cell yesterday colpletely to check for leaks. I let the pressure build up to 10 PSI. The amp draw did not go down at all in fact it went up slightly. My cell has no low return holes and can not push out the water. I would bet that a well placed check valve would solve your problem.

Larry

Hey Larry thanks for the reply… Yea I am lost for words. Here is how I have the system plumbed.

The top of the reservoir sits about two inches above the top of the Electrolizer while the top of the first bubbler sits about 12 inches above the top of the Electrolizer.

From the bottom of the reservoir a 3/8” line runs to the bottom of the Electrolizer. From the top of the Electrolizer a 3/8” line runs to the top of the bubbler with a dip tube that’s extends to the bottom of the bubbler. On the side of the bubbler I have a 3/8” overflow line that runs back to the bottom of the reservoir.

The electrolyte in the reservoir and the electrolyte in the return line show’s that the cells are completely covered in electrolyte by the level in the return line and in the reservoir.

Keith


http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/P1010138.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/HHO_Gas_Diagram.png

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/P1010141.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1347686/15.jpg

[H2OPWR]

[QUOTE=DodgeViper;26355]Hey Larry thanks for the reply… Yea I am lost for words. Here is how I have the system plumbed.

The top of the reservoir sits about two inches above the top of the Electrolizer while the top of the first bubbler sits about 12 inches above the top of the Electrolizer.

From the bottom of the reservoir a 3/8” line runs to the bottom of the Electrolizer. From the top of the Electrolizer a 3/8” line runs to the top of the bubbler with a dip tube that’s extends to the bottom of the bubbler. On the side of the bubbler I have a 3/8” overflow line that runs back to the bottom of the reservoir.

The electrolyte in the reservoir and the electrolyte in the return line show’s that the cells are completely covered in electrolyte by the level in the return line and in the reservoir.

Keith


Keith, Do not trust the level in a tube where the level in the cell is concerned. Your tube from the resevoir should be full. If you want proof positive just do this. Shut your cell down and make sure that it is full. Then close off the e-lite return line so that nothing can get in or out.. That way the pressure can not force out the e-lite. Then fire it up with your new bubbler attached. If your amp draw does not go down than you will have the problem isolated. I have fought this before many times. I would not be so positive if the same thing had not happened to me. It was always the lowering of e-lite in the cell.

Good Luck
Larry

[DodgeViper]

[QUOTE=DodgeViper;26355]
Keith,

Do not trust the level in a tube where the level in the cell is concerned. Your tube from the resevoir should be full. If you want proof positive just do this. Shut your cell down and make sure that it is full. Then close off the e-lite return line so that nothing can get in or out.. That way the pressure can not force out the e-lite. Then fire it up with your new bubbler attached. If your amp draw does not go down than you will have the problem isolated. I have fought this before many times. I would not be so positive if the same thing had not happened to me. It was always the lowering of e-lite in the cell.

Good Luck
Larry

I did as you said and once I placed a restriction on the output line from the bubbler my amps fell again. This is after I had clamped off the return line back to my reservoir. I have been testing without my CCPWM as Shane Jackson has my PWM. Today I wanted just to see how much production I could make and ran the electrolizer at 80 amps. Through my flow meter I was knocking down 1 liter every 10 seconds. I hope once I put the CCPWM back inline and it's properly adjusted the system will produce 6LPM with less amps.

But with the torch placed back online the amps hovered around 34 amps. My reservoir level is higher than the top of my electrolizer, this should indicate the electrolizer is completely full. I did not try production with my other bubbler though. Also I may add I had place another valve on the rear of my torch and left the valve at the front. I also went form a 3/8" id tube on the torch to a 1/4" id tube made of surgical tubing. I am sure with all these restrictions in place do not help.

With an open end going to the intake its not a problem but I really want the second bubbler to make very small bubbles with very little restriction. I just do not remember having this problem before and the only thing that has changed is my new bubblers but they are configured as for tubing routing the same.