Is hho full of ????

[bigsmoke1956]

Ok Guys,

Haven't been on here in awhile, but kind wondering is everybody giving up on HHO MPG gains. Some of the threads I have read kind of seams that way. some say that EFIE'S don't work, others say that hho don't give any mpg gains, others say to use duct to cut down on air flow. So was hho just a bunch of bull**** or just good for the clean air. So whats up.

Thanks
Jeff

[alpha-dog]

I believe HHO does work. The battle seems to be with the computerized EFI systems. People with older vehicles have a better chance of getting good results.

[bigsmoke1956]

So what your telling me, that newer cars and trucks have no hope with HHO.

Thanks

[Painless]

I don't believe that to say newer cars have no hope is accurate, it takes more work to tune sensor inputs and get gains that are for keeps.

Another hurdle is the large displacement engines, such as my trucks 4.7L, that require 5 liters plus of HHO just to start seeing decent gains.

Russ.

[H2OPWR]

So what your telling me, that newer cars and trucks have no hope with HHO.

Thanks

I am a firm beleiver that given the proper amount of HHO and with proper enhancers that HHO can and will work on today's cars.

Larry

[alpha-dog]

I've already tried quad EFIE's. I believe EFIE's are for older generation cars. The PSC1-023 that I got from splitsec.com maps out the fuel map and you can richen or lean with that. Next you need to know if your rich or lean and a wideband AFR meter gives that information with good resolution. I use the DB from inovate.
Does Dodge trucks make a multifuel truck? I ask because using a NB o2 with a 2.5vdc bias mimics a wideband sensor. 0 to 5 vdc represents 0v= 7.36AFR and 5.0v= 22.39AFR, and of course 2.5v = 14.7AFR.

[Painless]

I've already tried quad EFIE's. I believe EFIE's are for older generation cars. The PSC1-023 that I got from splitsec.com maps out the fuel map and you can richen or lean with that. Next you need to know if your rich or lean and a wideband AFR meter gives that information with good resolution. I use the DB from inovate.
Does Dodge trucks make a multifuel truck? I ask because using a NB o2 with a 2.5vdc bias mimics a wideband sensor. 0 to 5 vdc represents 0v= 7.36AFR and 5.0v= 22.39AFR, and of course 2.5v = 14.7AFR.

The only multi-fuels I can think of are the flex fuel vehicles that run on either gas of E85.

[alpha-dog]

Did you use 4 single EFIE's or a single EFIE that had quad output?

I am currently designing a single with quad output and 1 pot to equally adjust the output to all 4 sensors...

I used two dual EFIE's from fuel-saver. It's you basic voltage adder. You know your ZFF mosfet driver would probably work better, just make it ride on a 2.5v level for those vehicles using that scheme and keep it 1v P-P.

[alpha-dog]

The only multi-fuels I can think of are the flex fuel vehicles that run on either gas of E85.

They use a 4.7 V8 don't they. It's most likely the same hardware that you have in your truck with a wideband o2 sensor and different software in the pcm. It might automatically lean out your truck with HHO.

[bigsmoke1956]

Now then, I have an 2002 F-250 with the V10, it does not have a MAP/MAF all it has is 2 pre cat and 2 post cat. So it sounds like your telling me is I need to installe 2 more EFIE for the post cat sensors?

Thanks

[alpha-dog]

Now then, I have an 2002 F-250 with the V10, it does not have a MAP/MAF all it has is 2 pre cat and 2 post cat. So it sounds like your telling me is I need to installe 2 more EFIE for the post cat sensors?

Thanks

You can do that. Yours is old enough that EFIE's should work. How much HHO are you producing? The rule of thumb is 1LPM for every liter of engine. Also, that V10 does use NB o2's right!

[bigsmoke1956]

I am using a dry cell doing about 2 lpm at 30 amps, 16 plate, but I am going to a 6x6 21 plate and try to run it at a least 35 amps or 40. think that might do the trick. Having a tuff time getting my EFIE to adjust right, any ideas

Thanks

[alpha-dog]

Understand, I didn't have good results with my 2006 dodge truck. I did find however, that if you turned the key on and adjust all four that they would generally stay balanced, maybe rising about 20mv.
Regarding your electrolyser, most people here will tell you you need more. I am currently using two electrolysers with 8X8 plates and 13 plates each. I'm using 3 cups of KOH per gal of distilled water. Without a pwm each electrolyser uses 42 to 45 amps, so I need to control that. I use P-channel mosfets on my pwm to get a little extra efficiency.
I think the best thing to stick with is 1Lpm to 1 liter of engine.

[DodgeViper]

I'm using 3 cups of KOH per gal of distilled water. Without a pwm each electrolyser uses 42 to 45 amps, so I need to control that. I use P-channel mosfets on my pwm to get a little extra efficiency.
I think the best thing to stick with is 1Lpm to 1 liter of engine.

WOW... I am using 2 teaspoon of KOH to a gallon of distilled water and pulling 45 to 50 AMPS. Are you sure of 3 cups? At these amps I am producing 3 LPM. When I jump up to 59 amps I am at 4 LPM.

[OUScooby]

While talking to someone today about EFIE's they stated they thought part of the problem was people are not using pre cat and post cat EFIE’s. This causes the computer to see signal difference between the 2 and makes the computer think the post cat O2 sensor is bad.

What if you are running catless?

[alpha-dog]

WOW... I am using 2 teaspoon of KOH to a gallon of distilled water and pulling 45 to 50 AMPS. Are you sure of 3 cups? At these amps I am producing 3 LPM. When I jump up to 59 amps I am at 4 LPM.

My electrolyser is a sid cell that I split in half and added another "N" to each stack. When I say that I use 42 to 45 amps I'm talking about one electrolyser using 13 plates "-NNNNN+NNNNN-". That will produce 3.3Lpm at 100% duty cycle with an MMW of about 5.85. When I adjust it down to 26 amps it produces 2.35Lpm. When using both electrolysers at 52 amps I get 4.75Lpm with a MMW of 6.5 and a duty cycle of 60%. Remember that both electrolysers have a total of 26 plates. So you have 36 plates and you get 4Lpm, I have 26 plates and get 4.75Lpm. 3 cups of KOH will help your production.