Conference For Bob's "The Cell"

[keiththevp]

I am going to a show and tell of this cell tomorrow in Indianapolis, IN tomorrow at 9 am, I was just wondering if anyone else from this board was going to be there?

Although I am going to look I don't know about buying because his original price quote of $800 dollars was WAY OFF. Now they want $2300 for a single and $6300 for a double unit. I guess I really just want to see a dry cell that puts out 6 LPM at 40 amps. and 14 LPM at 80 amps.

[DodgeViper]

I am going to a show and tell of this cell tomorrow in Indianapolis, IN tomorrow at 9 am, I was just wondering if anyone else from this board was going to be there?

Although I am going to look I don't know about buying because his original price quote of $800 dollars was WAY OFF. Now they want $2300 for a single and $6300 for a double unit. I guess I really just want to see a dry cell that puts out 6 LPM at 40 amps. and 14 LPM at 80 amps.

I am waiting for someone to get their hands on the "Cell" and split it open to have a look inside. Its going to happen...

[keiththevp]

According to their distributor more than a few have already done this. But to be honest with you it is nothing more than a dry cell with ZERO current leakage via the holes going in the bottom and out the top of each set of plates. I am sure with the 20% NaOH he runs, the plate gap is at least 3/16ths inch which allows for holes to be piped into the plastic. And 2 of the plate edges are sealed in the plastic and the top and bottom are sealed with a gasket, or at least this is what makes the most sense to me.

[keiththevp]

Ok, here is my review of "the cell" for all of you that are interested.

PROS

1) Has an unbelievable amount of safety systems built in, everything from water level sensors, psi sensor and relief valves, heaters and heat sensors, current sensing tech, and relays galore to help control the computer run unit.

2) Innovative series cell design that is far more efficient then anything else out today but not that revolutionary of a design, just holes in plastic injection as far as I am concerned.

CONS

1) My first is PRICE, for a group that says we are not in it for the money yet seems to be going after global domination with this thing in every country you can imagine. They are currently selling between 10,000 to 20,000 units a month at prices between 4k to 6.3k per unit. Do the numbers, this is better then winning the lottery!! This whole story for the good of the people thing and not for the money is a JOKE and I am personally SHOCKED that bob boyce puts his name on this. This is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY just like the greedy oil companies.

2) They act like they invented this technology, and the crap about a 1 year provisional patent that will not be pursued further is more of a sales pitch. They are not giving up their 40 - 80 mill a month anytime soon!!

3) Also the BIGGEST flaw with the system I can see is a major lack of any real filtration of the gas. They are using nothing more than a vapor condensing chamber ( basically they pump the gas through a empty container and hope the condensate sticks to the wall HAHA) and a plain water filter housing with a 5 micron water filter in it as a bubbler.

So as a final note I think the system is an efficient dry cell that ONLY works on diesel engines but does work very well, but I do see them having issues with corrosion in the turbo units from unfiltered gas. It is professionally made and very nice on the eyes to draw in all those trucking executives bank rolls.

I hope this info helps someone replicate this unit, as I have learned an enormous amount from this site and like to give back when I can. Thanks everyone for all your help past and future!!

P.S. They say that it takes approximately 1.74 horsepower to create 80 amps of power at the alternator which I thought was very interesting, and they are rolling out a home heating unit that will work with natural gas propane and oil heaters in the next few months. Also according to PTI if you put 4 of their quad cells in a Toyota preis and adjust engine timing you can run it on straight hydroxy gas no gasoline!!

[Painless]

That's an awesome summary.

Bob Boyce's design is publicly available, although I'm not sure how close it is to what you saw today. I relied mainly on a PWM system that ran three different frequencies through the cell.

I remember reading that 50 microns is enough to catch KOH particles and let the HHO through, so maybe his filter will be enough?

Russ.

[keiththevp]

I have been working on the filtration end of this hobby for a couple of months now and I will say this. Everything is a trade off, I have used 100 micron down to .01 micron filters (coalescing and particulate) but here is the key. 100 micron is OK but lets a lot through, 50, 40, 20, 5, 1 .01 are great but clog FAST!! So it is a trade off of how much you are ok with having pass your filters and how often you want to change the filters.

[keiththevp]

And Bob Boyce's design for this unit is NOT public domain!! Trust me they make that VERY CLEAR at the meeting that they have 4 patents and so on... I just don't understand how they can patent tech that is 50 years old. Again this is nothing different then that guy I saw on youtube that put straws in the gaskets in and out between every plate instead of holes in the plates. They have just found an easier way to do it so they can manufacture high volumes. But I do have a question for any of you that are in injection mold shops. If you have a mold made and the plates are inserted into it will just any plastic stick to those plates or maybe this is the special patent they refer to in the manufacturing process?

[locco]

Keith, from what I understand of the cell device design, there is no water flowing between each plate? so each plate gap needs its own HHO vent (top) and e-lite fill hole (bottom). Is this correct?

From this instead of trying to get the plastic to stick to the metal, just create a mechnical lock, ie drill or bend each plate at the edges and then inject or cast around that. I hope that makes sense.

Have you got a drawing of this design or url?

[keiththevp]

I don't have a design pic, I am just speculating on what I think the only feasible design solution they could have used. Which you are right there is a hole on the bottom and top and water does not transfer between plates. Are you saying that if you were to bend the plates on either end they would stick better in the plastic? Remember though they have to actually seal between each plate otherwise the water would seep from plate gap to plate gap and you would have current leakage rendering the design useless.

[Painless]

Take a look at this PDF:

http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_BobBoyce_Electrolizer_Plans/d9.pdf

...start from page 9 (Bob Boyce's open source OU cell design).

Russ.

[locco]

Are you saying that if you were to bend the plates on either end they would stick better in the plastic? Remember though they have to actually seal between each plate otherwise the water would seep from plate gap to plate gap and you would have current leakage rendering the design useless.

Bending/drilling the plate ends would definatelly make the design mechanically stronger if the plate ends were plastic covered during injection moulding. I think plastic would stick well enough to the metal not to seep (looking at other products on the market). If this was suspected to be an issue just rough the plate ends up more to aid coherence.

The design of such a cell is definatelly an interesting excercise in terms of ease of manufacture :) I guess the top of the plates in such a design can open to a common volume as long as you control the e-lite level as not to flood the plates (go over the plates).

What is your guys experience with silicone's resistence to e-lite?

Thanks for the PDF link Painless, looks like some iinteresting reading :)

[keiththevp]

Painless I have read that and all of it pertains to his 101 plate cell. Which is great and wonderful but this cell only has 13 plates and uses 12 volts 40 amps straight DC besides the PWM. So in my opinion these are two completely different cells and best yet, the new design is closer to the dry cells that we have all been working on. That being said it is far easier to make and costs a lot less, but you still get the same output. 14 LPM. Therefore I am interested in building this new cell and not the 101 plate VERY complicated and precise monstrosity.

[Painless]

Painless I have read that and all of it pertains to his 101 plate cell. Which is great and wonderful but this cell only has 13 plates and uses 12 volts 40 amps straight DC besides the PWM. So in my opinion these are two completely different cells and best yet, the new design is closer to the dry cells that we have all been working on. That being said it is far easier to make and costs a lot less, but you still get the same output. 14 LPM. Therefore I am interested in building this new cell and not the 101 plate VERY complicated and precise monstrosity.

I just did the math on this cell:

Volts: 12
Amps: 40
LPM: 14
Seconds: 60
Watts: 480
MMW: 29.17

Faraday%: 376.44

14 LPM at 40 amps would certainly solve my problems, shame we need to spend so much money just to find out if it's true or not.

Russ.

[jriggs_18]

Im not exactly sure where this 14LPM talk got started. Are you refering to bobs 100 cell design or the cell?

I can tell you this, the output of 'the cell' is 1L per 10A at 12-14V. The double is supposed to put out 4-6LPM safely, it can go higher but is not recommended. All of this I have learned was directly from conversations with Mr Boyce himself. And as a matter of fact, Bob does claim to achieve above faraday with the Cell. Not much over it, but over it none the less. As for my opinion on the cell, it is the most efficent design out there, looks to be durable, but is overpriced and I have yet to prove it works on a semi. I suspect it is just the engine model I am working with, and that on older engines it will work better, just my .02.

[woodsmithca]

Just tossing out a question that may have been answered??

How many liters per minute output does one need to make a fuel milage difference??

Thanks