New to HHO, Where to Start?

[OUScooby]

I'm interested in attempting HHO on my 04 Subaru WRX. I think I understand the general mechanics and physics at work with running HHO, but am finding some conflicting information.
As I understand it, with HHO you save gas by leaning out you A/F ratios with HHO and gain horsepower by advancing the timing, and getting ignition sooner in the stroke because the HHO allows for faster burn. Am I right so far?
Assuming the above is correct, how do change the timing? Will I need a new ECU, something like ECUTek or UTec ECU? My stock ECU is very controlling of the timing and its very difficult to change it even with engine management, this may be a specific problem to my car, not sure.
Also where do I tap the HHO, do I run it to the intercooler or the intake manifold, and if so will I have problems overcoming the pressure from the boost to pump in the HHO. Or do I tap it pre turbo, in which case how do I ensure that the system doesn't accidently pump water into the turbo.
Also any general tip for getting started would be help full, and tips for building and installing a system.
And anyone with info specific to WRXs STis or Subarus, or Force Induction cars in general.

Don't know if this info is relevant but I've got an '04 WRX with Stage 2 XTP engine map, 3" catless downpipe, 3" catless cat back, catless uppipe, and ported throttle body and intake. I also plan on changing the headers soon.

Thanks for any help.

[cully]

don't mess with the WRX they are prone to melting pistons if you run poor quality fuel,
I'm talking now from a UK view point on the Japan imported versions to the UK these run high octane fuel as standard and the UK fuel is low grade 97 RON we have to run a good fuel additive to keep these engines happy



http://www.subarutuner.co.uk

[OUScooby]

don't mess with the WRX they are prone to melting pistons if you run poor quality fuel,
I'm talking now from a UK view point on the Japan imported versions to the UK these run high octane fuel as standard and the UK fuel is low grade 97 RON we have to run a good fuel additive to keep these engines happy



http://www.subarutuner.co.uk


Same problem here in the US, WRX needs premium fuel. To make matters worse here in California you can't get anything above 91 octane. And it's crappy 91 at that here in CA. Fortunately I've got the car tuned for Cali91 gas, so it's happy enough with it. In addiction to HHO, I'm also looking to run my car off E85, which because the ethanol acts as an octane booster is like running your car off something like 105 octane. Don't know how HHO will work with E85, if at all with a Subbie.

Do the UK version get the JDM motors? The USDM motor are different to JDM.

My biggest concern with running HHO with my WRX is with fuel lean and blowing the motor. Fortunately Subarus come with fairly sophisticated engine management, if things start going too wrong the ECU will put the car into limp mode to prevent a catastrophic failure, or just shut the car down entirely if need be. Leaning out too much, and boost creep are the two main causes of engine failure with these cars.

Basically I'm interested in running HHO to increase mpg, but also as a power adder. If I only get a mpg increase, and the hp and torque stay the same that's fine, but I don't want the fuel savings if the mean a lose in power.

[Painless]

If not getting a high enough octane is the worry, you should look into a water/alcohol injection system. This acts as an octane booster as well as cooling the cylinder charge. An EGT gauge would also be a good investment.

[OUScooby]

If not getting a high enough octane is the worry, you should look into a water/alcohol injection system. This acts as an octane booster as well as cooling the cylinder charge. An EGT gauge would also be a good investment.

I'm not really worried about octane, as I said my car is tuned for Califronia pump gas. And I'm looking into E85 and it octane boost effects from the ethanol.

Looking into HHO for MPG and HP gains.

[locco]

Like Painless said get an exhaust temp gauge. Good protection for your valves/pistons and turbo when you start fiddling with the air:fuel ratio.

Stainless mesh sleeved k-type thermoucouples are cheap on ebay :)

I'm about to install my first HHO cell into a friends car so I'm not sure if you need to advance teh ignition to see efficiency gains. Can anyone comment on this? Just a lean out or is an advanced isgnition also needed to see the full advantage of HHO? Can you expact problems if you don't advance the ignition ie. loss of power due to detonation pre TDC?

[Painless]

Like Painless said get an exhaust temp gauge. Good protection for your valves/pistons and turbo when you start fiddling with the air:fuel ratio.

Stainless mesh sleeved k-type thermoucouples are cheap on ebay :)

I'm about to install my first HHO cell into a friends car so I'm not sure if you need to advance teh ignition to see efficiency gains. Can anyone comment on this? Just a lean out or is an advanced isgnition also needed to see the full advantage of HHO? Can you expact problems if you don't advance the ignition ie. loss of power due to detonation pre TDC?

This is an open question, if you are adding enough HHO to significantly speed up the burn and are getting pressure on the cylinder before TDC, then retarding the spark to occur much closer to TDC should definitely help. I think it's one of those things to be experimented with after you've installed the system, adjusted sensors and seen some gains.

Russ.

[H2OPWR]

This is an open question, if you are adding enough HHO to significantly speed up the burn and are getting pressure on the cylinder before TDC, then retarding the spark to occur much closer to TDC should definitely help. I think it's one of those things to be experimented with after you've installed the system, adjusted sensors and seen some gains.

Russ.

Most newer vehicles have a table in the ECU called Timing Trim Table or something similar. This along with the knock sensor should be all that we need. It is there to compinsate for bad gas, low octane gas etc. Every time the engine sences a knock it will adjust the table. The ECU just assumes that you are using low grade fuel and compensates. Over time using HHO your vehicle should adapt very well.

Larry