Will water injection work???

[Gary Diamond]

I found this water injection kit.

Will it work? or is it a waste of money

Will it work with any engine?

Is this this a good price?

Will this improve my MPG or is this just a power booster?


http://www.aquastealth.com/injectionkit-checkvalvestyle.aspx

[Painless]

Here are some of my bookmarks on the subject of WI:

(http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html)Water Injection By Robert Mann (http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html)

Do it yourself water alcohol methanol injection (http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html)

H2O Injection (http://flapdoodledinghy.com/H2O_injection.html)

[Gary Diamond]

Here are some of my bookmarks on the subject of WI:

(http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html)Water Injection By Robert Mann (http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html)

Do it yourself water alcohol methanol injection (http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html)

H2O Injection (http://flapdoodledinghy.com/H2O_injection.html)

Thanks for the super great post :D:D:D:D

[zachattack]

I also found a site surfing the web for water injection. It too explains how to make one and of course you can buy there book as most places which explains it all. But I enjoy getting my info for free. Anyway here is the site maybe it will help and maybe it won't.

ttp://www.greaseolineplus.com/page2.html

Zach

[zachattack]

Sorry, I don't think that link was copied right try this one.

www.greaseolineplus.com Then just look for the water injection link on the left.

Note: they do talk down on HHO systems a little bit if you click on that link. I don't know if its to sell their product or what.

Zach

[zachattack]

I also have read that by using water injection it will increase cylinder pressure. Which can cause heads, head bolts, and head gaskets to blow. Some places are using less torque on the head bolts to allow for the pressure increase to counter act this problem. I had a brain fart and failed to copy and post these sites. But I will track them down again. I want to try a H20 system. I just want to learn more before I go blowing a head or gasket on my diesel.

[locco]

Here's a little article about SAAB impementing water injection

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/coollinks3/index/rally/saab/press/press.html

and an efficiency report from the guy who worked with SAAB on developing water injection

http://www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/Publications/Reports/97_R_1939_LE.pdf

Like with HHO, it looks like the burn rate must be adjusted for through ignition timing

[Gary Diamond]

Thanks for the great post, here is one for power but who knows

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/?gclid=CKmOvbfvspkCFQrFGgod-lXB5g

[locco]

Gary, water injection in turbo engines allows guys to boost their car's intake pressure above what the fuel will normally allow (fuel octane is a measure of resistence to pressure detonation). So the water itself doesn't give any power boost. It just drops the temperature of the compressed charge thus eliminating/reducing pre detonation caused by cylinder pressure (thus pseudo octane boost).

If you run it in a non turbo car, you may see gains (I'm speculating here), due to the water absorbing combustion heat, turning into steam and experting pressure on the piston. This way your harvesting more of the thermo energy into physical energy. Which otherwise would just go into your coolant.

I guess the most important thing would be to deliver the water into the cylinder in teh most atomised way possible. Fog misters would probably work best for initial experiments.

Hers a water injection forum which I came across which might be of some help

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

[Gary Diamond]

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=65

These guys say they have one for MPG increase

[zachattack]

I have been looking at snow's mpg package for a little bit now. It sounds and looks really nice. I just can't talk myself into spending the thousand bucks to get it.

Zach

[Gary Diamond]

I have been looking at snow's mpg package for a little bit now. It sounds and looks really nice. I just can't talk myself into spending the thousand bucks to get it.

Zach

My gut feeling, says we don't need more then a vapor going in

[locco]

It looks like a well though out unit. Mapped to load so MAF and RPM. With an extra water spray for high loads, which is where the SAAB article mentioned getting the most gains. All depends if you cover enough distance to make the investment in this product worth it.

Also their statement "This provides an increase in combustion efficiency which provides more power without injecting more diesel fuel.", is a bit worrisome as from my understanding diesel needs higher temps to give better burns thus better combustion efficiency. Water would lower temps if anything, unless they have made a simplified statement about water absorbing heat which it can turn to mechanical energy????

Here is a system which gives you 20% more power OR 20% more efficiency. It does NOT give you both just to make it clear :). It works by raising combustion temp and providing a fuller fuel burn. In terms of power it raises diesel's soot point though better burn, thus allowing more diesel to be injected before black soot comes out teh exhaust which is what limits diesel engine's peak power.

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110053/article.html

From memory there are 3 different manufacturers of these systems in Australia.

[locco]

Here are some of my bookmarks on the subject of WI:

(http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html)Water Injection By Robert Mann (http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html)

Do it yourself water alcohol methanol injection (http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html)

H2O Injection (http://flapdoodledinghy.com/H2O_injection.html)

Just had time to read these, very informative. Thanks :)

So it looks like 5:100 water to fuel flow should do it. Reticulation shops might be able to provide the fine mister (fogger) needed. A pump would definatelly be needed to fully atomise the water under pressure. If anything it looks like a good idea just to clean the carbon deposits off engine internals :D

[Roland Jacques]

I would think steam would be better for MPG, and cool water spayed /atomized for HP.

Maybe steam generator somehow getting heat of your exhaust man. 3-4 Gallons per hour should cover most all vechiles. (5%)

[locco]

How big is your engine Roland? I did the calcs for my 1.8L subaru. it gets 28mpg. It would need ~1-2gallons/hr of water.

A friend of mine told me he knew a guy once who used to drip the water onto his exhaust manifold and the intake would suck this steam up. Apparently it worked in improving milage. This method could also lean the mixture out as the ECU would be calculating fuel delivery using an increased intake air temp.

[Roland Jacques]

5.7 L & a 3.4 L

Isolating the benefits of water mist injection is something id like to learn more about.

5% was there min recommendation. I'm not sure if that is based on a average fuel consumption or peek demand....

When i accelerate I'm getting, maybe around 3 MPG. so even more water may be desired :confused:

[locco]

I guess you'd have to use the average unless you're willing to go for a fancy load map based water delivery system based on MAF and TPS. Using teh average would still give you a good result seeing we spend most of our driving at averge eocnditions.

Using the water drip onto the manifold method, You could even use a gravity feed system with a water garden dripper for rate regulation :) A simple solenoid shut off valve would be the most complicated part.

[admin]

What if you used an ultrasonic humidifier somehow to deliver the vapor? That would probably help along the process, no? Because those little metal rings seem to atomize the water completely into almost dust looking vapor.

[Roland Jacques]

I guess you'd have to use the average unless you're willing to go for a fancy load map based water delivery system based on MAF and TPS. Using teh average would still give you a good result seeing we spend most of our driving at averge eocnditions.

Using the water drip onto the manifold method, You could even use a gravity feed system with a water garden dripper for rate regulation :) A simple solenoid shut off valve would be the most complicated part.

But 5% was the minimum. They used as mush as 50% 50% for some engines. If i read right, they also said it proved most beneficial on acceleration and or peak loads.

So just thinking out loud, even if i base it on 5% of the 3mpg high loads,(base this at ballpark of 21 MPH because that's about where most accelerating takes place ) that = 7 gallons per hour ish. .

I got a lot to learn on this subject like what are the cons of putting that much water in a ICE.