Question regarding # of plates

[bigjim56]

I am ready to build, but may need more prep. I measured the voltage from the alternator and w/the best gauge I could find, I got 13.96 VDC. I am using the pan liner (0.040) for gasket material versus the .060 neoprene. I realize I'm right on the edge w/the voltage, but with the thinner gasket material doesn't that allow it to run cooler, or do I have it backwards. I remember reading a thread where it was good to run thinner gaskets, but don't remember the specifics.

I'm ready to build using the -NNNNN+NNNNN- plate configuration that daddymikey reccommended in an earlier post, but with the voltage close to 14VDC I was thinking maybe I need an additional N plate to allow for a cooler running cell. (I have the extra plates on hand, just need sanded) I need to stay away from the higher heat operation due to the pan liner gasket material. What do you guys think?

On a side note, the tubing melt for the current leakage is a big flop as was the grommet idea. The grommet link from the earlier thread just don't make them thin enough. I may just run it w/o any leakage protection at all, isn't that what all the kit/ebay systems do? I've seen the blackened area of used plates, but its mainly on the center, the rest of the plate remains good.

Appreciate all inputs, most here are way more knowledgable than I when it comes to dry cells, this is my first build. After this, I will begin to work on my trucks cell, plates are already purchased and waiting.

Thanks,

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

I am ready to build, but may need more prep. I measured the voltage from the alternator and w/the best gauge I could find, I got 13.96 VDC. I am using the pan liner (0.040) for gasket material versus the .060 neoprene. I realize I'm right on the edge w/the voltage, but with the thinner gasket material doesn't that allow it to run cooler, or do I have it backwards. I remember reading a thread where it was good to run thinner gaskets, but don't remember the specifics.

I'm ready to build using the -NNNNN+NNNNN- plate configuration that daddymikey reccommended in an earlier post, but with the voltage close to 14VDC I was thinking maybe I need an additional N plate to allow for a cooler running cell. (I have the extra plates on hand, just need sanded) I need to stay away from the higher heat operation due to the pan liner gasket material. What do you guys think?

On a side note, the tubing melt for the current leakage is a big flop as was the grommet idea. The grommet link from the earlier thread just don't make them thin enough. I may just run it w/o any leakage protection at all, isn't that what all the kit/ebay systems do? I've seen the blackened area of used plates, but its mainly on the center, the rest of the plate remains good.

Appreciate all inputs, most here are way more knowledgable than I when it comes to dry cells, this is my first build. After this, I will begin to work on my trucks cell, plates are already purchased and waiting.

Thanks,

bigjim56

That is the $64.00 question. The extra plate would make the cell run cooler but will limit the number of amps you can draw with your cell. The magic number is supposed to be 2 volts per plate gap which would support 6 n plates. Although I have never tried it at 14 volts I can not get it to work. Maybe Russ can give better advice. I beleive he has tried it at 14 volts.

Larry

[bigjim56]

Thanks H2OPWR,

With the 5N configuration that amounts to 2.33 volts/plate, while the 6N configuration drops that to 1.99 volts/plate. Unless I'm missing something, it would be better to go w/the 5N. I remember reading that once the volts drop below 2.0, the production drops off considerably, I don't want to jepordize that. I can offset the heat somewhat with a bigger reservoir and the cell placement.

I am thankful for the 5/16 supply and effluent holes now, I've read the other thread where the closer gap results in cell starvation/cavitation of the electrolite, resulting in drawdown of the electrolite level. I'm battling that by maintaining the larger supply and effluent sizes throughout the cycle. I believe most others use 1/4" for those holes. I hope this solves that supply problem.

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

Thanks H2OPWR,

With the 5N configuration that amounts to 2.33 volts/plate, while the 6N configuration drops that to 1.99 volts/plate. Unless I'm missing something, it would be better to go w/the 5N. I remember reading that once the volts drop below 2.0, the production drops off considerably, I don't want to jepordize that. I can offset the heat somewhat with a bigger reservoir and the cell placement.

I am thankful for the 5/16 supply and effluent holes now, I've read the other thread where the closer gap results in cell starvation/cavitation of the electrolite, resulting in drawdown of the electrolite level. I'm battling that by maintaining the larger supply and effluent sizes throughout the cycle. I believe most others use 1/4" for those holes. I hope this solves that supply problem.

bigjim56

After days of testing on the bench I do not notice a drop off in effeciency at 1.97 to 2.0 volts. When I start my 5 hour run each night I am at 2.13 volts per gap. As the batteries discharge the volts per gap slowly drop. My effeciency does not drop until I am at 1.97 volts per plate gap or lower. What does drop is my ability to draw the amps I want. By the time I go from 2.13 down to 1.97 volts per gap my amp draw is off by 25%. Although effeciency stays consistant and even climbs as the electrolite warms up my actual gas volume falls.

Larry

[bigjim56]

Thanks again H2OPWR,

I spent last night prepping (sanding) 2 more plates, now I can go either way. Afterwards I washed them. Luckily, where I work we have a Lab quality dishwasher. I used a few drops of dishwasher detergent for the first wash, a Lab glassware detergent (small amount) for the second wash and finally 2 final no detergent washes. (Each wash cycle is approx. 1 hour long) The washes and rinses are w/deionized water at high heat temperatures. These plates sure look good. I wrapped them in clean towels and stored away. Now I just have to cut 2 more gaskets to allow for the extra plates should I decide to go that way.

So its the lower charged batteries that cause the lower than 2.0 voltage per gap, wherein the amperage drop is causing the lower output. If the extra plates will cause it to run cooler, I just may add them. I just don't want to see any drop off in production due to lower voltage per gap.

One last thing, I've got a 12V battery charger at work, I know you use a regular car battery (or more) for your test runs. Will the charger work for some low level testing? Its not feasable to lug a battery to work, but the charger is in my locker ready to go. I plan on assembling the cell on my next day shift (weekend/boss away), then setting up and running some tests on my evening shift (lone person on site). If I have to, I could lug the truck battery to work. I've yet to make the gas volume tester, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Thanks, bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

Thanks again H2OPWR,

I spent last night prepping (sanding) 2 more plates, now I can go either way. Afterwards I washed them. Luckily, where I work we have a Lab quality dishwasher. I used a few drops of dishwasher detergent for the first wash, a Lab glassware detergent (small amount) for the second wash and finally 2 final no detergent washes. (Each wash cycle is approx. 1 hour long) The washes and rinses are w/deionized water at high heat temperatures. These plates sure look good. I wrapped them in clean towels and stored away. Now I just have to cut 2 more gaskets to allow for the extra plates should I decide to go that way.

So its the lower charged batteries that cause the lower than 2.0 voltage per gap, wherein the amperage drop is causing the lower output. If the extra plates will cause it to run cooler, I just may add them. I just don't want to see any drop off in production due to lower voltage per gap.

One last thing, I've got a 12V battery charger at work, I know you use a regular car battery (or more) for your test runs. Will the charger work for some low level testing? Its not feasable to lug a battery to work, but the charger is in my locker ready to go. I plan on assembling the cell on my next day shift (weekend/boss away), then setting up and running some tests on my evening shift (lone person on site). If I have to, I could lug the truck battery to work. I've yet to make the gas volume tester, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Thanks, bigjim56


Yes it is just the voltage drop that hampers my volume. I am in the process of fixing that. I am going to get this cell on my truck and start over with a new test device. I am hooking my old 130 amp alternator to an electric motor to make a 14 volt power supply that will maintain voltage. Right now I am using 2 6 volt golf cart batteries hooked in series. A normal automotive battery will not last long with the continual charging and discharging that I am doing. Yes your cell will run coler withn the extra n plate. Any voltage over the amount it requires for electrolosis will result in nothing more than energy loss in the way of heat gain. It will be very difficult for you to make a battery charger alone work to test. Unless your battery charger is a very large one it will not give you enough amps to do much except break in your device at low amp draw. Also the voltage output of a normal battery charger is not very stable. It would be best to use a deep cycle battery with your charger hooked up ti it to allow more run time. Just my opinion.

Larry