View Full Version : Whats the best to get rid of current leakage?
Tundra4x4
02-23-2009, 05:56 PM
Ok i want to know what is the best idea for getting rid of current leakage? Do any of you guys have an idea?
thanks
H2OPWR
02-23-2009, 06:55 PM
Ok i want to know what is the best idea for getting rid of current leakage? Do any of you guys have an idea?
thanks
That is the $64.00 question. All the best ways are extremely difficult or not pratical for a one off application. I would say that the best way would be to have solid no hole ss plates cast in some type of good plastic and have the fill and exhaust holes through the plastic and not the stainless. Problem there is the cost of the mold. The increase in effeciency could never offset the cost of the cell in a one of a kind device. The bedliner material I am using now seems to be working very well but is tough to get exact spacing with and hard to use. Shane is working with some dental tray material that seems to hold promise but has yet to be tested under electrolosis. I have hope for it. I had some luck with Plasti Dip but it has issues adhering to stainless and will require more holes to be drilled. If I was going to choose one now for a one of a kind applications. I would use a drill press and drill several small holes around the larger hole and use plastidip. It did not degrade with me under electrolosis in over 100 hours of testing. But you will need the extra holes to make it work. I do beleive that the bedliner material is better but using it is a bear. Final conclusion is that nothing is easy.
Good Luck with this and have patience and determination or you will fail.
Larry
Tundra4x4
02-23-2009, 08:13 PM
i was thinking of using the plasicdip but there is many different forms of it. I was looking into the spray on kind and the brush kind. Is there one that you would recommend?
Dave Nowlin
02-23-2009, 08:16 PM
I have an idea. What if you drilled oversize holes in the stainless. Then insert a plastic peg in the hole that under heat would mushroom on both sides of the plate so as not to come out. Then sand them in some type jig to a predetermined thickness just enough to hold the plug in place, then drill your hole in the plug for circulation. Would that not yield a no current leakage cell? The plugs could be made in sheet plastic of some sort with a type of hole saw. Actually if this was done in a precision jig with the proper thickness plastic sheet, you might not have to sand it at all. That would be way cheaper than a mold.
Dave Nowlin
Tundra4x4
02-23-2009, 08:28 PM
I dont know if that would work or not. I asked about using rubber grommets and i was told that it has to cover 2.5x the size of the hole to stop the current leakage. All i can say is to try it. I am going to try everything and see what works. But i am going to try the plastic dip and see how it holds up.
BoyntonStu
02-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Ok i want to know what is the best idea for getting rid of current leakage? Do any of you guys have an idea?
thanks
Prior to solving a problem, it is important to know the quantitative extent of it.
How much loss is there in a cell due to leakage?
Why is leakage hindering your attempt to implement HHO?
One can achieve 5.5 MMW quite readily without using leakage prevention techniques.
BoyntonStu
Tundra4x4
02-23-2009, 08:41 PM
i want to see the improvement differences and see if it is actually worth getting rid of current leakage on future dry cells that i will build.
BoyntonStu
02-23-2009, 08:44 PM
i want to see the improvement differences and see if it is actually worth getting rid of current leakage on future dry cells that i will build.
What are you getting now? MMW?
BoyntonStu
Tundra4x4
02-23-2009, 09:00 PM
Im not sure....i havent ran any mmw tests yet but my cell in 3x6 and i am getting 1.6 lpm. I am getting my amp meter this week and i will let yall know when i get the test going.
H2OPWR
02-23-2009, 09:23 PM
i was thinking of using the plasicdip but there is many different forms of it. I was looking into the spray on kind and the brush kind. Is there one that you would recommend?
The spray on kind WILL NOT WORK. It is too thin. The brush on kind is the only kind that works. I show a can of what I used on a YouTube Video. The key to getting it to stick is it adhering to itself through the holes. Do not try it without the extra holes It simply will come off the stainless. I used 1/8" holes around the main hole. The Plasti Dip completely fills the smaller holes and adheres to itself on the other side of the plate. Keep in mind that if you do drill the extra holes and do not fill them with Plasti Dip your current leakage problem will grow.
As for the difference in MMW with and without blocking techniques. I have found in numerous tests that it is around a 10% improvement in effeciency's. I have a couple of in debth video's on YouTube showing tests both ways under identical circumstances.
Good Luck. It is quite an undertaking.
Larry
Gary Diamond
02-23-2009, 09:39 PM
What are you getting now? MMW?
BoyntonStu
Well Stu that very important data, the way i look at it is if your drawing 12amps and if your leakage is 500 ma 1/2 amp who cares but if over time like weeks running that grows to 2 amps yes it needs to be addressed
AS THEY SAY IF ITS NOT BROKE WHY FIX IT "KISS"
Gary
alpha-dog
02-23-2009, 09:42 PM
I'm using the plasti-dip method, in addition to other changes. One extra neutral ( now 5n ), 3 cups KOH per gallon of water and P-channel mosfets I've reralized 34% increase over last year. Of course my electrolyser wasn't producing what it was rated at and now it's doing a little more. I'm happy with it. The plasti-dip is easy to do.
H2OPWR
02-23-2009, 10:12 PM
I'm using the plasti-dip method, in addition to other changes. One extra neutral ( now 5n ), 3 cups KOH per gallon of water and P-channel mosfets I've reralized 34% increase over last year. Of course my electrolyser wasn't producing what it was rated at and now it's doing a little more. I'm happy with it. The plasti-dip is easy to do.
Alpha-dog, I am glad to hear that the Plasti Dip is working for you but what is the difference between p channel fets and n channel fets. I am curious as to why that would help I do not have even 1 tenth of the understanding of electronics as you do. Maybe it is something I want to try as well.
Larry
alpha-dog
02-23-2009, 11:22 PM
Alpha-dog, I am glad to hear that the Plasti Dip is working for you but what is the difference between p channel fets and n channel fets. I am curious as to why that would help I do not have even 1 tenth of the understanding of electronics as you do. Maybe it is something I want to try as well.
Larry
What I know is that I've tried with my test electrolyser both N-channel and P-channel with the same current draw and the P-channel fets on the pwm gave an increase output. My theory is that with the N-channel fets you have a saturated electrolyser all the time and by turning on and off the ground you allow it to conduct for a period of time. With the P-channel fets the electrolyser is conducting all the time both with stored energy and comming from the battery in pulses. So with N-channel fets you have an off time and with P-channel it always conducts. I have proven on my test set and on my vehicle that it work better.
H2OPWR
02-23-2009, 11:38 PM
What I know is that I've tried with my test electrolyser both N-channel and P-channel with the same current draw and the P-channel fets on the pwm gave an increase output. My theory is that with the N-channel fets you have a saturated electrolyser all the time and by turning on and off the ground you allow it to conduct for a period of time. With the P-channel fets the electrolyser is conducting all the time both with stored energy and comming from the battery in pulses. So with N-channel fets you have an off time and with P-channel it always conducts. I have proven on my test set and on my vehicle that it work better.
It looks like we should all try this. There is just no available products for us to try.
Im not sure....i havent ran any mmw tests yet but my cell in 3x6 and i am getting 1.6 lpm. I am getting my amp meter this week and i will let yall know when i get the test going.
Tundra here's a MMW calculator:
http://site.altpropulsion.com/MMWCalc.htm
alpha-dog
02-24-2009, 09:45 AM
It looks like we should all try this. There is just no available products for us to try.
If you will be patient, I and an engineer friend are going to produce a beta run of a new pwm design. I want to make it modular, versatile and reliable with current control, choice of N-channel or P-channel mosfets, able to operate at up to 25khz. Safety is always the first issue, so it needs to use the minimum amount of heavy current bearing wires. You should also be able to buy extra fet blocks for higher current usage, which will make upgrades cheaper.
Russ