My little saga....

[Dave Nowlin]

well yesterday I bit the bullet. I have had my Seigrene Diamond Cell complete with reservior, scrubber, secondary bubbler and powered with 8 gauge flexible copper car stereo wiring complete with 80 amp Isolator/relay with 40 amp auto reset breaker and backup 50 amp fuse installed for several weeks but hadn't added any electrolyte. I was afraid of it freezing. Well yesterday I put in 3 quarts of distilled water and two slightly heaping teaspoons of KOH flakes. I found one slight drip at a hose clamp and fixed that. Then I powered the unit up with no way to check the amp draw. It was air locked at first so I turned it off and went for a drive of about 10 miles. When I returned home I powered it up again. The 1/2 inch return line to the top of the reservior started flowing and kept getting stronger. It was obvious that I wasn't pulling 40 amps but I didn't really know how much I was pulling. Another thing puzzled me. When I removed the cap from the secondary bubbler I didn't see any bubbles. I made up a soapy water solution and checked the two fittings above the fluid line on the reservior to see if I might be leaking gas and I also checked the top fitting on the scrubber. No bubbles appeared. Scratch head. Well today I drove to Memphis to my youngest son's house. It is about 125 miles away. After getting there I opened the hood with the motor and cell still on. The unit was still making a lot of gas but I noticed bubbles and white residue on the check valve on the side of the scrubber. I said well I'll deal with that when I get back home. We went to Sears and I purchase a clamp-on ampmeter. When we returned to my son's house I started the truck and turned the cell on. At first I was reading just over 28 amps and little by little the reading crept up until it was almost 35 amps and then it began going back down and settled around 34 amps. Tonight I drove back home and when I arrived I left the truck running with the cell on and checked the amp draw. It varied from 32.4 to 32.9 amps and there didn't appear to be a leak around the check valve. I removed the cap from the secondary bubbler and it was bubbling like crazy. It seems the check valve must have been leaking all along and simply seated itself. I turned the truck off and removed the reservior cap and inserted a Kodak color thermometer and after one minute it read 93 degrees F with an outside temp of 41 degrees F. It seems this unit is running cool and the amp draw is very close to 30 amps. That had been my target current draw. Now I've simply got to start keeping very good records of my fuel economy. I'm not sure how much HHO I am making and really am not concerned about that at present. This cell was assembled according to Seigrene's instructions and will do what it will do at this amp draw. My concern now is just how much improvement can I get at this amp draw. On my 06 King Ranch 6.0 PSD I believe my alternator can handle this load but don't want to push things any further. I'm afraid it would necessitate a bigger alternator to go further in amp draw. Well that's all I can truthfully say for now.

Dave Nowlin

[hg2]

Dave there are a few things you'll have to be careful with running too many amps with the King Ranch 6.0s.You should monitor your voltage to make sure it doesn't drop much below 11.5v because you risk frying your FICM(fuel injection control module).

Also Your computer will not "kick in" the alternator until the glow plugs are finished cycling (a protection strategy). This is why the voltage is low at start-up - it is normal.So you might want to consider an on/off switch inside the cab until cycling is finished.

You may need to consider replacing your alternator with one that's rated higher amps down the road,because an FICM can cost you up to $500 to replace.

[Dave Nowlin]

I have a Scanguage mounted on top of my rear view mirror and monitor my voltage closely. It never got below 12.9 and usually was about 13.3 or 13.4 volts. I power up the unit with an Upfitter switch in the truck which is rated for 30 amps and only activates the Isolator. I turn the unit off before turning off the motor to evacuate the HHO from the intake. On start up I wait until the egine has been running 10 seconds or so before switching on the cell.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I have a Scanguage mounted on top of my rear view mirror and monitor my voltage closely. It never got below 12.9 and usually was about 13.3 or 13.4 volts. I power up the unit with an Upfitter switch in the truck which is rated for 30 amps and only activates the Isolator. I turn the unit off before turning off the motor to evacuate the HHO from the intake. On start up I wait until the egine has been running 10 seconds or so before switching on the cell.

Dave Nowlin

Dave, I want to see you have success. Please get yourself an amp guage where you can monitor amp draw all the time. You never know what can happen. Sometime something will happen. You can get a decent one with reasonable accuracy for around $10.00. Remove the external shunt and put it in line on the positive lead to your cell. Then run 18 guage wires to the meter in your truck. Anything could cause (and something will) too high amp draw. Melting wires, fried alternator etc. will be very expensive.

[Dave Nowlin]

Do you not think the 40 amp auto-reset breaker and 50 amp fuse together with the Scanguage mounted on top of my rear view mirror are enough? I have to spend some time watching the road. If I have an amp guage and am not watching it when something goes wrong, won't the result be the same? I could replace the fuse with a 40 amp. The upfitter switch has a 30 amp fuse in it's circuit and is only used to operate the Isolator/Relay. The 8 guage wire is run from the battery through the Isolator and the fuse then the auto-reset breaker before going to the cell. Auto manufacturers have gone to idiot lights in cars because people don't always watch guages. A fuse that is inline in the 8 guage circuit is about as positive protection as it gets. I am considering adding a 3 minute timer to the upfitter switch circuit so there is a three minute delay when it is switched on. This would provide protection if I forget to turn the cell off before shutting down the engine. The upfitter switches are dead until the key is turned on but I don't want to start filling the intake with HHO before the engine starts. Sometimes on cold mornings the glow plugs stay on for a while. What are your thoughts? Do you know of a positive way to protect my vehicle that works better than the fuse?

Dave Nowlin

[hg2]

Dave your timer idea sounds like the way to go to eliminate the possibility of forgetting to turn the switch on and off.The possibility of forgetting will eventually happen and could have damaging results down the road.

I've looked for a 12v timer without success,because I've wanted to use them for other mods I have,if you find one please post it.

[daddymikey1975]

I've looked for a 12v timer without success,because I've wanted to use them for other mods I have,if you find one please post it.

search your local alarm/audio shops. See if they sell a products from "Directed Electronics".. if you find one (and i'm sure you will, if not go to best buy)

Ask the sales guy or installer if they have a part number 528T in stock. It's a pulse timer. 12V with a 30amp SPDT relay built in. If they're clueless, ask them how they do a remote start on a diesel with glow plugs? the directed remote starts don't have a glow plug input or a time delay built in, so we use a 528T as a timer delay for the ignition circuit especially on the dodge trucks.

If they STILL look at you like you're a moron.. then just get them from here http://www.thrillaudio.com/Car_Audio___Electronics/Car_Alarms___Security/Directed-528T-DRD528T.html

I hope this helps
mike
(p.s. can you tell how i earn my living?? LOL)

[Dave Nowlin]

I've thought further and wonder if I wouldn't be better off with a voltage sensing relay. One that would only allow the power to be on above a selected voltage. I was thinking of 12.5 volts. If the fuel injection module will suffer damage below 11.5 volts that should give me a safety margin. Can you recommend one please?

Dave Nowlin

[Dave Nowlin]

Well today I did a little work on my scrubber. I discovered that it was leaking part of the HHO I was making. I sealed off the leak with epoxy and decided to do a test run tonight. I have a little run I do that involves some flat road but mostly up and down hill, part of it pretty steep. I ran it earlier in the week without HHO and averaged 18.2 m.p.g. according to the gauge in my truck. I recognize these gauges are not absolutely correct, but they should be relative. That is run after run over the same stretch of road the margin of error should be the same. Tonight with the HHO on I got 20.4 m.p.g. I realize I've got a lot more testing to do, but it's a start. That's about 12%

Dave Nowlin

[hydrotinkerer]

Unless I missed it somewhere(probably) what is your lpm production?

[H2OPWR]

Well today I did a little work on my scrubber. I discovered that it was leaking part of the HHO I was making. I sealed off the leak with epoxy and decided to do a test run tonight. I have a little run I do that involves some flat road but mostly up and down hill, part of it pretty steep. I ran it earlier in the week without HHO and averaged 18.2 m.p.g. according to the gauge in my truck. I recognize these gauges are not absolutely correct, but they should be relative. That is run after run over the same stretch of road the margin of error should be the same. Tonight with the HHO on I got 20.4 m.p.g. I realize I've got a lot more testing to do, but it's a start. That's about 12%

Dave Nowlin

Dave I have a Scanguage mounted in my truck. I am watching and recording lots of stuff in preparation for my install. I have found that the Scanguage is dead on accurate with actual fuel economy as long as you do not have any electronic mod's I would bet that yours is very close to right.

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

I don't really know what my LPM is. Unlike many I really don't care. It is what it is. My interest is in the outcome. That is how much can I increase my fuel economy. To go to more production I will need a larger alternator. I'm running about 33 amps now and that is probably all I should push the stock alternator. I suppose my attitude is different then many of you. I have no desire to be a mad scientist. I do have a desire to lower the emissions of my truck, extend engine life and increase fuel economy. The problem with HHO as a hobby seems to be the mine is bigger than yours syndrome. I'm not trying to outdo anybody. I'm trying to learn how to go about this safely, reasonably efficiently and in a hassel free way. To each his own, but many of the systems which have been developed here are too large for my purposes or too complex. I love the KISS principle. If HHO is to ever be accepted by the masses, we must get past smoke and mirrors and all the mystique. We must produce a simple easy to maintain system that works. Shortly I will undertake another step and see about having a program written for my truck running HHO. Not so much to gain a lot of horsepower as sinply to use the HHO most efficiently.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I don't really know what my LPM is. Unlike many I really don't care. It is what it is. My interest is in the outcome. That is how much can I increase my fuel economy. To go to more production I will need a larger alternator. I'm running about 33 amps now and that is probably all I should push the stock alternator. I suppose my attitude is different then many of you. I have no desire to be a mad scientist. I do have a desire to lower the emissions of my truck, extend engine life and increase fuel economy. The problem with HHO as a hobby seems to be the mine is bigger than yours syndrome. I'm not trying to outdo anybody. I'm trying to learn how to go about this safely, reasonably efficiently and in a hassel free way. To each his own, but many of the systems which have been developed here are too large for my purposes or too complex. I love the KISS principle. If HHO is to ever be accepted by the masses, we must get past smoke and mirrors and all the mystique. We must produce a simple easy to maintain system that works. Shortly I will undertake another step and see about having a program written for my truck running HHO. Not so much to gain a lot of horsepower as sinply to use the HHO most efficiently.

Dave Nowlin


Dave, Many times I wish I would just have purchased a kit like you did. Yes it is much simpler, compact, and far less expensive. With that said I think you are misreading the intentions of most here. I for one do not care whose is bigger or better. My quest (and I beleive most others here) has been to improve effeciency. Yes the end goal is to improve emessions and fuel economy. But improved effeciency is one of, if not the most important factor in both your stated goals. Less power for the same MMW will equal lower emissions and better fuel economy. Sometimes the design's go way way over the top to try and get there. MMW's are the only way to actually measure effeciency. That is why you see all the tests and with any cell the question always comes up. I for one do not beleive ego has anything to do with it. This is simply open source engineering.

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

I'm not trying to bash anyone on their methods. The main thing I am trying to point out is that their is a great grass roots interest in HHO. In the small town where I live I have found many who are interested and many who are playing with the idea. If somone doesn't come out with something soon which is fairly foolproof and works and market it, this interest will die. It will be relegated to the bin with other promising ideas that didn't quite pan out. With many new ideas that have been accepted some one produced a working product that people were interested in and sold it. People accepted it and the inventor continued to work on improvements and marketed them when they were perfected. One example I can think of we all use. Our PCs. Remember the 286, the 386, the 486 and so forth. The early computers were problematic as was the software. It has gotten better and now is accepted by all. I see a similar future for HHO generators if someone with the necessary capital will step up and market a unit and support the product after the sale. It must be reliable and trouble free. It doesn't have to be the most efficient unit man can possibly make. It does however need to produce results that the common man can avail himself of. He really isn't interested in all the technology, only the results. Most folks don't need to understand every detail of how a computer works to use one. They simply expect it to work and be easy to use.

You all know that an awful lot of hoaxes have been perpertrated on folks by people selling HHO devices. HHO already has a bad name in many places. On Ford diesel forums you will be assailed by former Ford engineers who will tell you HHO is a hoax. They will harass you and try to either shut you up or make you go away.

This needs to move out of the closet out into the open. It does have promise and there are units that work. The problem is sorting out all the claims. I'm glad I chose Seigrene for my cell purchase as they have been honest with me. I've talked with others who haven't.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I'm not trying to bash anyone on their methods. The main thing I am trying to point out is that their is a great grass roots interest in HHO. In the small town where I live I have found many who are interested and many who are playing with the idea. If somone doesn't come out with something soon which is fairly foolproof and works and market it, this interest will die. It will be relegated to the bin with other promising ideas that didn't quite pan out. With many new ideas that have been accepted some one produced a working product that people were interested in and sold it. People accepted it and the inventor continued to work on improvements and marketed them when they were perfected. One example I can think of we all use. Our PCs. Remember the 286, the 386, the 486 and so forth. The early computers were problematic as was the software. It has gotten better and now is accepted by all. I see a similar future for HHO generators if someone with the necessary capital will step up and market a unit and support the product after the sale. It must be reliable and trouble free. It doesn't have to be the most efficient unit man can possibly make. It does however need to produce results that the common man can avail himself of. He really isn't interested in all the technology, only the results. Most folks don't need to understand every detail of how a computer works to use one. They simply expect it to work and be easy to use.

You all know that an awful lot of hoaxes have been perpertrated on folks by people selling HHO devices. HHO already has a bad name in many places. On Ford diesel forums you will be assailed by former Ford engineers who will tell you HHO is a hoax. They will harass you and try to either shut you up or make you go away.

This needs to move out of the closet out into the open. It does have promise and there are units that work. The problem is sorting out all the claims. I'm glad I chose Seigrene for my cell purchase as they have been honest with me. I've talked with others who haven't.

Dave Nowlin

From what I see there is a line in the sand that the good companies do not cross. That is all the outragous claims of HUGE gains with no proof. Other than pointing out that gains can and have been made the good companies do not cross the line. Every time someone get's scammed HHO gets a worse name and it is a viable technology. The engineer types will always poo poo the idea until there is concrete proof that they can touch and feel as well as understand. Every time a Water4Gas type company scamms someone it just cements their ideals.

[Dave Nowlin]

The really bad part is that some of these retailers are fairly honest folks trying to make a buck who simply haven't done proper research. I know of one company out of Huntsville, Alabama that was run by guys who thought they were doing a good thing. They used water filter housings and distilled water with baking soda for electrolyte. Their web site has disappeared so I guess they are out of business. If you go to craigslist in just about any good sized town you will find folks selling poorly thought out cells to those who don't know any better. In fact I was steered toward the company out of Huntsville by a friend who works for a Ford dealership. Somebody needs to step up and market a good quality unit at a fair price with good support before the opportunity slips into oblivion.

Seigrene's unit is great but support is hard to come by after the sale. I believe they have shifted more toward the commercial marketplace. I don't believe they really want to interface with customers all that much. They would rather develop units and sell them and let someone else deal with the customer. That makes me sad as I really believe they are on the right track.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

The really bad part is that some of these retailers are fairly honest folks trying to make a buck who simply haven't done proper research. I know of one company out of Huntsville, Alabama that was run by guys who thought they were doing a good thing. They used water filter housings and distilled water with baking soda for electrolyte. Their web site has disappeared so I guess they are out of business. If you go to craigslist in just about any good sized town you will find folks selling poorly thought out cells to those who don't know any better. In fact I was steered toward the company out of Huntsville by a friend who works for a Ford dealership. Somebody needs to step up and market a good quality unit at a fair price with good support before the opportunity slips into oblivion.

Seigrene's unit is great but support is hard to come by after the sale. I believe they have shifted more toward the commercial marketplace. I don't believe they really want to interface with customers all that much. They would rather develop units and sell them and let someone else deal with the customer. That makes me sad as I really believe they are on the right track.

Dave Nowlin

You are right on with selling a great product with great support that really is useful. Here is the biggest problem that I see in putting the proper product on the market. I truely beleive that The Seigrene, EBN, and similar devices are all close to the same as far as effeciency. In fact I do not beleive that there is much more any of the good companies can do to help their product as it stands now. With the effeciency's of today's best devices at around 5.5 MMW (I know some claim more but the gains are made mostly from steam and hot gas) most automotive electrical systems can not supply the needed number of amps to get the correct amount of HHO to the engine to fully realize all the gains available. I beleive 1lpm or more per liter of engine size will be needed to realize better gains. Gains can be made with less but I think we are leaving fuel economy on the table that is there for the taking. There are only two ways to solve the problem and both are expensive. The best way is to make a device that will be effecient enough to provide the needed volume and operate on the available charging system capacity. The other is to increase the capacity of the electrical system. For most to have a high amp alternator installed will run around $1000.00 parts and labor. With my job I have connections most people do not and it still was $500.00 to put a 265 amp alternator on my truck. While I know of a couple of ways to improve effeciency the cost per kit would be double what a good kit can be bought for today at the minimum. Ten times what the junk kits are selling for. And that would require a substantial investment just to set up. A few would be sold to the people that have taken enough time to do proper research. Few actually do that. Most will opt for the lower price kit. To make it a viable business an even greater investment would have to be undertaken. That would require many installs and very careful documented Dyno and emissions tests on numerous vehicles. The results would have to be proof positive. Then a huge advertising budget would have to be in place to educate the public and show the difference. Doing all that on an unpatentable device would be financial suicide. The door would now be open for all the clones! I am taking both approaches. More amps and a device capable of up to 2lpm per liter of engine size. I want to prove this to myself. I think it is going to take another spike in fuel prices to jar enough of the public back into the market to make this work. That is very unfortunate because it should be happening anyway just for the emission gains alone!

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

For $323.95 I can put a 220 amp alternator from DB Electrical out of east Tennessee in my truck with me doing the labor. For that price I will also get an oversize wire with fuse to run from the alternator to the battery. They sell this as a kit. That actually makes increasing alternator capacity a viable option. With that large an alternator I could easily push my cell to 50 amps without problems or even 60. My present alternator is 110 amp and I have had no problem operating at 33 amps. That kind of amp draw would get me very close to 3/4 liter of HHO per liter of engine displacement. I can do all that without putting anything in the bed of my truck. I am very strongly considering ordering it.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

For $323.95 I can put a 220 amp alternator from DB Electrical out of east Tennessee in my truck with me doing the labor. For that price I will also get an oversize wire with fuse to run from the alternator to the battery. They sell this as a kit. That actually makes increasing alternator capacity a viable option. With that large an alternator I could easily push my cell to 50 amps without problems or even 60. My present alternator is 110 amp and I have had no problem operating at 33 amps. That kind of amp draw would get me very close to 3/4 liter of HHO per liter of engine displacement. I can do all that without putting anything in the bed of my truck. I am very strongly considering ordering it.

Dave Nowlin

That is an outstanding deal. Imports are much more. With that kind of output you could run 2 of your devices at 50 amps each. Anotherthing I have noticed at least with my alternator is that it is more effecient than stock and will increase your MPG slightly. Mine was a one off build so was much more. Off the shelf kits can be had for some popular models.

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

I thought you work for a car dealership. Won't they sell you a popular model?

I drained mine tonight as it is supposed to get down around 20 degrees F. I don't want to freeze anything. I have upper and lower hoses on both side of my cell to evacuate gas and input electrolyte as quickly as possible. On one of the lower ports instead of an elbow I used a tee fitting. It is mounted with one side of the Tee slanting down and the other up. The leg that slants down comes out right under my bumper. I have a 1/2 inch stainless bolt screwed in the 1/2 inch hose with a hose clamp tightened around it. I can simply place a plastic bucket under it loosen the clamp and screw the bolt out with disposable rubber gloves on and catch the electrolyte. I made sure the bucket was clean first and then put the reclaimed electrolyte in a gallon distilled water jug. When it warms up, I will put it back in the cell. It isn't discolored in any way. It looks just like distilled water.
On draining it out, I discovered I actually have about 2 quarts of electrolyte in my system. So I now know that with my configuration a slightly heaping teaspoon of KOH flakes per quart of water will yield about 33 amps when switched on.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I thought you work for a car dealership. Won't they sell you a popular model?

I drained mine tonight as it is supposed to get down around 20 degrees F. I don't want to freeze anything. I have upper and lower hoses on both side of my cell to evacuate gas and input electrolyte as quickly as possible. On one of the lower ports instead of an elbow I used a tee fitting. It is mounted with one side of the Tee slanting down and the other up. The leg that slants down comes out right under my bumper. I have a 1/2 inch stainless bolt screwed in the 1/2 inch hose with a hose clamp tightened around it. I can simply place a plastic bucket under it loosen the clamp and screw the bolt out with disposable rubber gloves on and catch the electrolyte. I made sure the bucket was clean first and then put the reclaimed electrolyte in a gallon distilled water jug. When it warms up, I will put it back in the cell. It isn't discolored in any way. It looks just like distilled water.
On draining it out, I discovered I actually have about 2 quarts of electrolyte in my system. So I now know that with my configuration a slightly heaping teaspoon of KOH flakes per quart of water will yield about 33 amps when switched on.

Dave Nowlin

I actually manage 4 dealerships. We sell all imports. Only the popular tuner cars have high amp alternators for them. Also domestic trucks that use snow plows etc have them available. I bought a Nissan Frontier. I guess that there is just not enough demand. If it is not the truck crowd that demands them it is only the people who put ultra high amp stereo's that need them. Also check out Green Machine. They make great high amp products for many high demand models. Their products will produce almost twice the amos with the same HP draw.

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

It's kind of strange. I talked to a local guy who runs a shop rebuilding alternators and generators. He doesn't think building a 220 amp alternator in the same exact case used for a 110 amp alternator is a good idea. He says he has built them in the past and they aren't as reliable. I asked why and he explained excessive heat is your biggest problem when this is done. There simply isn't a good way to dissapate all that heat. He is checking into some folks who build high amp alternators for ambulances. They will fit in my vehicle but are physically larger than the stock unit. That would probably be a better idea as the extra load would be constant especially on a long trip pulling my fifth wheel trailer. I certainly don't want to experience an alternator failure on the road on vacation.

I looked for green machine on the web and couldn't find what you are talking about.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

It's kind of strange. I talked to a local guy who runs a shop rebuilding alternators and generators. He doesn't think building a 220 amp alternator in the same exact case used for a 110 amp alternator is a good idea. He says he has built them in the past and they aren't as reliable. I asked why and he explained excessive heat is your biggest problem when this is done. There simply isn't a good way to dissapate all that heat. He is checking into some folks who build high amp alternators for ambulances. They will fit in my vehicle but are physically larger than the stock unit. That would probably be a better idea as the extra load would be constant especially on a long trip pulling my fifth wheel trailer. I certainly don't want to experience an alternator failure on the road on vacation.

I looked for green machine on the web and couldn't find what you are talking about.

Dave Nowlin


Ok I am bad, it is mean-green here is the link. http://www.mean-green.com/
The place I got my alternator from is Ohio Generator. They are a huge well known provider for the high end automotive stereo shop's. All I know is what they told me in a few conversations.

First is that OEM alternators are low bidder products and very ineffecient. The excess heat comes from ineffecient operation just like in a bad HHO cell design. It is wasted electricity. The alternator I bought is torn down to the bare core. It is rewound with much larger wire with closer tolerences. Also the diodes that rectify the current are much better and more effecient. There is only .063 mAmps max current leakage in the 265 amp alternator I got from him. He also said that how good the high amped alternator was depended on how good the origional design was and how much room there was for more and larger wire. Mine started at 130 amps. The extra quality and build does result in a higher cost initially. If you want to talk to them just google Ohio Generator. They list their phone number. If you do not have a way to buy through a distributor though the price will probably be north of $650.00. I can tell you for a fact that they are more effecient than stock. Since I had it installed my fuel economy has jumped 1 MPG with not one other change.

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

Today I got the new 190 amp alternator put on my truck. I've added more KOH flakes and the amp draw is aboyt 58 amps. It may climb more during extended driving so I guess I'll get 70 amp fuse or remove some electrolyte and dilute it a bit. Still haven't measured HHO output but the return hose used to be full of liquid with some gas bubbles. Now it is gas with some liquid.

Dave Nowlin

[Dave Nowlin]

I don't really know how many of you drive diesels. That said this ulta low sulphur diesel stinks. If you hold your hand in the exhaust stream for a few minutes, it stinks. With my HHO system on the first thing I notice is it's more difficult to hold your hand close to the pipe for an extended period of time due to the moisture content of the exhaust. Afterward when you smell your hand it has very little odor. It doesn't stink. I am slowly, little by little diluting my electrolyte trying to get it down to where it draws 50 amps. Even after removing probably a cup and replacing it with distilled water I am drawing 55 amps after allowing the truck to sit and run at about 1,250 r.p.m. for about 30 minutes. It would probably draw less if moving down the road as the moving air would cool things a bit. It is running hotter after the 30 minute run. The scale on my color thermometer only goes to 120 F. When it passed that I withdrew it to keep from damaging the thermometer.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I don't re3ally know how many of you drive diesels. That said this no ulta low sulphur diesel stinks. If you hold your hand in the exhaust stream for a few minutes, it stinks. With my HHO system on the first thing I notice is it's more difficult to hold your hand close to the pipe for an extended period of time due to the moisture content of the exhaust. Afterward when you smell your hand it has very little odor. It doesn't stink. I am slowly, little by little diluting my electrolyte trying to get it down to where it draws 50 amps. Even after removing probably a cup and replacing it with distilled water I am drawing 55 amps after allowing the truck to sit and run at about 1,250r.p.m. for about 30 minutes. It would probably draw less if moving down the road as the moving air would cool things a bit. It is running hotter after the 30 minute run. The scale on my color thermometer only goes to 120 F. When it passed that I withdrew it to keep from damaging the thermometer.

Dave Nowlin

Any new MPG reports?

Larry

[Dave Nowlin]

Not yet. I'm sure liking the new alternator though. It doesn't even act like it knows the cell is there. Having an extra 80 amps of capacity sure helps, especially when my cell is only drawing somewhere between 50 & 60 amps. The strange thing is every time I think it has settled at a certain amp draw, in a coule of minutes it moves up a few tenths of an amp. I'm beginning to wonder how long it will take to simply settle out at a certain amp draw.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

Not yet. I'm sure liking the new alternator though. It doesn't even act like it knows the cell is there. Having an extra 80 amps of capacity sure helps, especially when my cell is only drawing somewhere between 50 & 60 amps. The strange thing is every time I think it has settled at a certain amp draw, in a coule of minutes it moves up a few tenths of an amp. I'm beginning to wonder how long it will take to simply settle out at a certain amp draw.

Dave Nowlin

It will not. Unless you have a very large cell the fluctuating electrolite levels will continue to make what is happening continue. Just find a happy medium and go for it. The extra capacity will be a huge benefit to your cause.

Larry

[resago]

as far as the not wanting to fill your intake full of hho before it starts, get a VOS (Vacuum operated switch) and T it off the vacuum system. I am assuming you have a vacuum pump like I do in my MB 300D. My system doesn't turn on until the engine is running and the vacuum pump is working.