MMW proportional to output?

[redneck323]

Has anyone determined if a x mmw cell running at y LPM is proportional to that same cell with a higher e-lyte concentration if the heat wasn't an issue. My boss is now interested with my tinkering with HHO and i drive a tow truck for him so he is now interested in builing units for the trucks of which we have a large fleet of. I havent built a dry cell yet but due to funds i am unable to do that yet but i was wondering if i could use a small dry cell to produce more HHO if the heat wasnt an issue IE build a simple cooling system of which i have components for. If thats not agreeable like i assume because of the surface area and lack of as smartscarecrow stated then how big would i need to go to produce about 8 LPM?? the tow trucks have fairly stout charging systems but Smack is claiming 1 LPM for every 10 amps on his Bob Boyce repro. cell. Would this work with higher e-lyte concentration if i keep it cool ie circulate the e-lyte through a cooler? I know this post has many variables but i am tossing this stuff around in my head and i know you guys can steer me alot better with your experience
Thanks ahead of time
Carl

[mytoyotasucks]

well for my wet cells, i get about 1LPM for 14 amps, not sure about my dry cell yet.

[redneck323]

Ok i guess it could work the same. I guess the way to determine what i am wondering is to set the e-lyte concentration so it doubles that 14amps to 28 and see if you get 2 LPM or something close before you get too much heat build up. I need to get my butt in gear and just fix my wet cell for now but with my schedule it is hard to find time i need to add neutrals to mine as i didnt do enough research before i built it and set it up -+-+-+- now i know what i need to do but do to lack of time for my stuff which i have become the guinea pig i cannot do tests with mine because of thermal runaway. I know that if i commit to a design that fails ill never hear the end of it because i have plans for a med to large design which will require prolly 400-500$ a unit but i am trying to minimize that and still get good results for semi mass production for our fleet.
Thanks again ,
Carl

[H2OPWR]

Has anyone determined if a x mmw cell running at y LPM is proportional to that same cell with a higher e-lyte concentration if the heat wasn't an issue. My boss is now interested with my tinkering with HHO and i drive a tow truck for him so he is now interested in builing units for the trucks of which we have a large fleet of. I havent built a dry cell yet but due to funds i am unable to do that yet but i was wondering if i could use a small dry cell to produce more HHO if the heat wasnt an issue IE build a simple cooling system of which i have components for. If thats not agreeable like i assume because of the surface area and lack of as smartscarecrow stated then how big would i need to go to produce about 8 LPM?? the tow trucks have fairly stout charging systems but Smack is claiming 1 LPM for every 10 amps on his Bob Boyce repro. cell. Would this work with higher e-lyte concentration if i keep it cool ie circulate the e-lyte through a cooler? I know this post has many variables but i am tossing this stuff around in my head and i know you guys can steer me alot better with your experience
Thanks ahead of time
Carl

I will try and give you some good advice based on my experience. Keep in mind that there is no absolute way to do this best and these are just my opinions for what they are worth. First do research and when you think you have a great design go back and do some more. I have thrown away countless thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours due to bad designs alone. That does not count experimenting time and money. If you have a goal of 8lpm HHO production first only consider a dry cell. Completely give up on the wet cell. Then figure that with a good design figure a little on the low side for effeciency. With a good design you can get 5MMW. At 5MMW you will need a cell that can handle 1600 watts of power. In a normal automotive application that will be between 115 and 120 amps. That will require a very high end alternator. I would bet that your tow trucks with all the electrical draw they already have can not handle anywhere near that kind of additional load. But that is something you will have to determine. If they can not handle that kind of power the upgrade to the charging system will probably run you in excess of $1000.00 each. It can be done but is not cheap. I would hate to see anyone spend the kind of money that it will take to make a 8lpm cell and then not be able to power it. Next figure that you will need 4 sq inches of plate surface per watt of power used to have an effecient cell that will not overheat and create alot of foam. So for 8lpm you will need 6400 sq inches of exposed plate surface in each device. If you use 8X8" plates after taking the gasket area and hole area in to count you will probably have around 100 sq inches of area per plate left to make HHO. It would take somewhere between 60 and 70 8X8" stainless plates to acheive what you want in an effecient manner that will stand the test of time. I am not trying to discourage you at all just tell you as best I can a general idea of what I think it would take to get the job done based on your goal of 8lpm. That is alot of HHO gas to produce.

Larry

[redneck323]

Hey thanks Larry lot of great info your opinion is greatly appreciated i did not relize how much of an on taking that would really be . I chose 8 LPM because i read somewhere that you should have at least 1 LPM for each liter of engine displacement and i am sure that is not set in stone. So maybe i need to just try to throw a few LPM and see what i get first maybe when i finally do a dry cell (which i hope to do soon cause i am not running any cell now because i abandoned my wet cell) ill just have to try my dry cell on one of the smaller trucks and get a baseline for LPM/ MPG gain then go from there. I think i might be able to get my hands on an old VAT 40 which is an automotive load tester for checkin starter draw and alt. output and crunch some numbers on these trucks i didnt think that there is any kind of real large load on the truck system exept for light and beacons and such. I also was assuming that they had larger than "NORMAL" alternators because of the so many different applications for the cab and chassis which is how most trucks are bought from the manufacturer ... but anyhow what i guess i need to do is get a range of how much charging system output i have left to play with + or - 10 to 20 amps to keep from burning the alt. up. So in any case thats a lot so I ll just have to wait till i can build me a dry cell and try it and assume that gains are proportional to LPM input to the engine and obviously keep the boss man informed on the opinions
Thanks again
Carl

[Dave Nowlin]

I have read comments from several sources that claim you need 1/2 l.p.m. per liter of engine displacement. That would cut your needs in half if true. Seigrene is at present working very hard on a design for diesels as they have a contract to produce a lot of units for diesel buses. Rob Williams is presently experimenting with a Dodge pickup with Cummings diesel engine. He may very well have what you need in the near future. If you can buy a working system from them, you might avoid experimenting with your boss's dollars.

Dave Nowlin

[redneck323]

Cool Dave thanks!
Ill check it out

[SmartScarecrow]

Cool Dave thanks!
Ill check it out

the few long haul tractors we have installed these things already had a secondary alternator feeding a 120vAC setup that is used to power conveniences in the sleeper and such ... when on the road, there is little if any draw on this sub system ... we have successfully used this system to power large 65-72 plate arrays by rectifying the 120vAC output ...

take a look and see if maybe you have this option available ... if you have 120vAC at maybe 10 amps, this could be used to make 8-10 lpm of HHO ...

[redneck323]

That would be sweet if they did have one but they dont even our road tractor trucks don't have one and i know the rollbacks and medium wreckers dont have them but i wonder what would be involved in getting one but i dont think we are looking for that kind of undertaking of fitting all these trucks with another alternator. Smart scarecrow you dont happen to have any workable figures from any of your builds, on displacement/ LPM injected/ results. I am looking for a workable baseline for informational purposes to try to apply to the first large design i build then ill have my own baseline. I guess I can just start with a small auto cell and monitor results i just think they are going to be so minscule that i wont be able to get an accurate proportion to base my builds from (if that makes sense). I know that i am assuming alot here but thats what i have to do till i have some fact to disprove it. I havnt done any HHO on diesel stuff yet so i dont even know that it will affect them as much as a gas motor. I have heard that it does great but... yet to be seen