The bottom line experiment!!

[BoyntonStu]

How many individual experimentors are working away to improve their cells, to increase output, and to raise their MMW?

Hundreds, thousands?

I suggest that we do a joint experiment along these lines:

Find a pickup truck with a small engine.

My '02 Ranger with its 2,300 cc engine would do.

Take as many cells as necessary to make 23 LPM and batteries to run them and place all the goodies in the bed of the truck.

A 3,500 Watt gas generator could be used to run ac battery chargers to keep the batteries up.

No alternator drain!

That would be 1 LPM per 100 cc. Enough you think?


At 150 Watts per LPM we would need 150 x 23 or 3,450 watts.

3,450/13.5 = 255 Amps




OK. We are making 23 LPM and we have a generator full of gas that will run for about 6 hours.

In 6 hours, we should be able to travel over 300 highway miles.


150 miles out and 150 miles back.

Did it help? Yes or no?

If it helped, cut back the HHO 10% etc.


Instead of just getting together for just a show and tell, why not arrange a get together for a show and do "THE EXPERIMENT"?


BoyntonStu

[Painless]

Sounds like a fun and interesting project to me, I would like to suggest an alternative though which may be easier to do:

Rent a large cylinder of compressed hydrogen and another of oxygen along with metering equipment.

Rent a dyno for a few hours, establish a rear-wheel HP and torque baseline.

Start at 15 LPM of hydrogen and 7.5 LPM of oxygen.

Establish RWHP & torque.

Reduce HHO 10%.

Re-run dyno.

As we go, plot a graph showing LPM against RWHP & torque.

At the end of the day, we should be able to identify a sweet spot for that vehicle.

Russ.

[BoyntonStu]

Sounds like a fun and interesting project to me, I would like to suggest an alternative though which may be easier to do:

Rent a large cylinder of compressed hydrogen and another of oxygen along with metering equipment.

Rent a dyno for a few hours, establish a rear-wheel HP and torque baseline.

Start at 15 LPM of hydrogen and 7.5 LPM of oxygen.

Establish RWHP & torque.

Reduce HHO 10%.

Re-run dyno.

As we go, plot a graph showing LPM against RWHP & torque.

At the end of the day, we should be able to identify a sweet spot for that vehicle.

Russ.


Russ,

Your suggestion would be terrific for a controlled lab experiment.

There is a video on Youtube where a guy is using Hydrogen directly from a cylinder.

I will look for it.

OTOH Using Hydroxy generators with their water vapor etc, and the real rubber to the road test, would be very convincing and perhaps even less expensive.



Using volunteers, a small AC generator (many in FL have one), and our cells, we could do "THE EXPERIMENT" without too much trouble.


BoyntonStu

[SmartScarecrow]

My plan is to install 2 - 125AH 12v batteries in the trunk on my del Sol along with a 24v 140amp alternator (later). My initial goal is 20lpm, I only need 6MMW to achieve this. I have plenty of room back there so I can put 1 hell of a cell in. I will combine this with a Vexus circuit, and water injection.

My goal 100MPG.


I am making 20 lpm now ... its not that hard to make that much gas if you have enough steel and enough power ... however, I do not have a bubbler reservoir and delivery system yet that can handle that kind of flow rate ... every thing I have tried to date has been blown to bits when I simulate a failure ... I am working on it, but this is the mountain we have to climb when you start talking about fairly large volumes of gas ... handling it and delivering it safely to work ...

I have produced as much as 40 lpm with my current design ... this is an 8" by 8" square 316L stainless steel plate design based on commercial standard EBN Dry Cell components ... the setup to produce 40 lpm consists of two 65 plate units bridged to form a single device that is powered with 240vAC rectified at 30 amps ...

my own tests with small stationary single cylinder piston engines would indicate that to obtain a steady idle, you will need roughly 5 lpm flow volume for every 100cc of engine displacement ... to get the engine to operate at anything approaching normal operating speed, you should plan on 6-9 lpm for every 100cc of engine displacement ... so I think that for your 2300cc engine, you will need to be thinking in terms of something approaching 150-200 lpm of flow volume ...

obviously, I would love to be proven wrong ... it would be a very interesting experiment ...

[BoyntonStu]

I am making 20 lpm now ... its not that hard to make that much gas if you have enough steel and enough power ... however, I do not have a bubbler reservoir and delivery system yet that can handle that kind of flow rate ... every thing I have tried to date has been blown to bits when I simulate a failure ... I am working on it, but this is the mountain we have to climb when you start talking about fairly large volumes of gas ... handling it and delivering it safely to work ...

I have produced as much as 40 lpm with my current design ... this is an 8" by 8" square 316L stainless steel plate design based on commercial standard EBN Dry Cell components ... the setup to produce 40 lpm consists of two 65 plate units bridged to form a single device that is powered with 240vAC rectified at 30 amps ...

my own tests with small stationary single cylinder piston engines would indicate that to obtain a steady idle, you will need roughly 5 lpm flow volume for every 100cc of engine displacement ... to get the engine to operate at anything approaching normal operating speed, you should plan on 6-9 lpm for every 100cc of engine displacement ... so I think that for your 2300cc engine, you will need to be thinking in terms of something approaching 150-200 lpm of flow volume ...

obviously, I would love to be proven wrong ... it would be a very interesting experiment ...

SSC,

I was not proposing a gas replacement experiment.

I am proposing a gas boosting experiment.

At 1 Liter per 100 cc, I believe that "THE EXPERIMENT" would prove or disprove the claim that by adding Hydroxy, MPG would noticeably increase.

A confounding problem is the ECU.

Assuming we inject 23 LPM, would an unmodified engine gain MPG?

My general thesis is to provide the Hydroxy in large quantities so that we can eliminate the question, "How much is enough?".

What would be your recommendations for "THE EXPERIMENT"?


BoyntonStu

[Q-Hack!]

SSC,

I was not proposing a gas replacement experiment.

I am proposing a gas boosting experiment.

At 1 Liter per 100 cc, I believe that "THE EXPERIMENT" would prove or disprove the claim that by adding Hydroxy, MPG would noticeably increase.

A confounding problem is the ECU.

Assuming we inject 23 LPM, would an unmodified engine gain MPG?

My general thesis is to provide the Hydroxy in large quantities so that we can eliminate the question, "How much is enough?".

What would be your recommendations for "THE EXPERIMENT"?


BoyntonStu

I like this, a real world experiment to show what NASA says in there studies.

We would definitely need to have clean HHO to the engine, and with that volume of gas means we have to think big to accomplish. Unless you want to test the water vapour, maybe for this test we could use a large canister of desiccant to dry the HHO. We would probably need to use 5/8" hose to ensure that we don't create any bottle necks in flow rate.

[BoyntonStu]

I like this, a real world experiment to show what NASA says in there studies.

We would definitely need to have clean HHO to the engine, and with that volume of gas means we have to think big to accomplish. Unless you want to test the water vapour, maybe for this test we could use a large canister of desiccant to dry the HHO. We would probably need to use 5/8" hose to ensure that we don't create any bottle necks in flow rate.

A large canister of desiccant to dry the HHO.


Sure, whatever is prudent and necessary for a really good experiment.

Pure dry Hydroxy at about 1 Liter every 2.5 seconds.

Big hoses, generator, battery chargers, whatever.

All the equipment would easily fit in a pickup.

Can you visualize it?

BoyntonStu