Dyno Printouts

[dougie175]

Am I just been really thick but is there a section with people dyno printouts proving their power increases with hydrogen hence the mpg increase?

Really interested to see the power increases as I am trying to prove hydrogen does work with some factual evidence rather than just testermonials on another tuning forum I am a moderator of.

Thanks Robb

[Q-Hack!]

Am I just been really thick but is there a section with people dyno printouts proving their power increases with hydrogen hence the mpg increase?

Really interested to see the power increases as I am trying to prove hydrogen does work with some factual evidence rather than just testermonials on another tuning forum I am a moderator of.

Thanks Robb

An increase in mpg does not necessarily mean an increase in power. For instance BoytonStu recently increased his mpg by choking down the air intake. This has the effect of reducing power, yet he gained a few mpg.

With HHO, we are just trying to get a more complete burn of the gas or diesel. Any power gain we would see is eliminated we then lean out the engine to gain our mpg.

[dougie175]

Please dont think I am trying to argue with you or anything because Im not as Ive said on other topics im not as clever as most of you on here just trying to understand how this works a little more.

I have always been under the impression that If you cannot use less fuel to run the same engine load at a lower rpm then you cannot save fuel, If you cannot increase torque then this wont happen.

[Q-Hack!]

Please dont think I am trying to argue with you or anything because Im not as Ive said on other topics im not as clever as most of you on here just trying to understand how this works a little more.

I have always been under the impression that If you cannot use less fuel to run the same engine load at a lower rpm then you cannot save fuel, If you cannot increase torque then this wont happen.

Maybe it will help to think about it this way:

If you have a 100 hp engine and you only need 80 hp to effectively drive. Then you have 20 hp in excess. You could then reduce power and gain mpg.

If, however, you have an 80 hp engine and you really need 100 hp to effectively drive then you will need to increase your hp to see any gains in mpg.

Most vehicles will fall into the first category. Trucks hauling heavy loads fall into the second. Does this make sense?

[dougie175]

It makes sense yes as I have taken my evhicle from 90bhp to 160 i now see a better mpg as I dont have to use that power very often.

However if what you are saying is if i had 100bhp and i could use 80bhp to get around fine which is say 80% throttle just as an example.

Does that mean at 80% throttle there is more power with the hydrogen turned on than turned off.

Basically is there any power gains from hydrogen, if not im still struggling to get my head round exactly how it is achiving a better mpg.

Thank You

[daddymikey1975]

im still struggling to get my head round exactly how it is achiving a better mpg.

Thank You

Doug, consider this explanation...

a vehicle in stock condition will use a predetermined volume (cc's) of fuel per combustion stroke. The car's computer really wants to keep the A/F ratio as close to 14.7:1 ... this ratio, while ideal for the design of the internal combustion engine, is horribly rich, and inefficient.

When the computer dumps in (for example) 3cc's of fuel into the cylinder to maintain stoich ratio, there's a bunch of extra fuel that's un burned to help cool the cylinder.

the extra fuel is a no-no because the EPA says it's ruining the environment, so now there's a catalytic converter in the mix to help 'consume' the waste fuel.

Now introduce HHO into the mix. The HHO, while explosive in it's own right, when mixed in the combustion chamber with the 3cc's (example) of fuel catalyzes the fuel mixture and it will burn more completely. So for example, in the beginning we're using 1.5cc's of the fuel to run the engine, and 1.5cc's of fuel to cool the chamber and the cat. will consume the waste fuel on exhaust.

When the HHO is introduced is catalyzes the mixture to get a more complete burn. So we still have 3cc's of fuel in the chamber with our HHO which helps to get all 3cc's of fuel burned. (again, for example as i do not know the specifics of how much fuel is delivered and how much is actually burned but follow along for a second)

now that we're burning MORE of the 3cc's (which IS more efficient..) the O2 sensor sees less waste fuel (more oxygen) and tells the computer to richen up the mixture as the exhaust does not represent the stoich mixture it was programmed to deliver.

To counter this, because if we drive this way we're effectively using MORE than the original 3cc's of fuel (because the computer was delivering it and the O2 sensor says it's not enough) our MPG goes DOWN... this is counter productive.

We now need to 'lean' the mixture by altering the O2 sensor's signal to the computer. By altering the signal, the o2 sensor can be adjusted (along with some other sensors if need be) to tell the computer to deliver 1.5- 2.0 cc's of fuel (which is all we were using in the cylinder before). remember the extra was waste..

So by adding the HHO it helps to burn the fuel that's there, the computer doesn't like that, it wants to expel extra fuel to cool the cylinders (which HHO helps to do) so we're arguing with an inefficient computer and by leaning the mixture we achieve MPG gains and don't lose HP because the HHO is helping to make sure the fuel is used and not wasted.

Does this help?

mike

[dougie175]

Yep parts of that I understand however what happens on say a vehicle like my own that doesnt have an o2 sensor. I have litrally a turbo back exhaust as its a diesel.

Sureley the extra burn given from the HHO would give me more power as the ECU doesnt really have anyway of telling what the fuel ratio should be.

On my vehicle this is calculated by the MAF i believe however the HHO is entering the system after the MAF, the the ECU should continue to throw in the same amount of fuel + the HHO which in turn should lead to a better burn and an increase in power no?

[Painless]

Dougie,

Going back to your original request, I recommend you check out the documents available at this link:

http://opensourceenergy.us/energy-authors/58-moggywan/67-the-effects-of-supplemental-hydrogen-in-si-engines

They detail results from dyno tests performed using hydrogen injection.

Russ.

[dougie175]

Thanks very much Russ Ill take a look at them now