Have I just wasted £100?

[dougie175]

I work as a car body repairer and was asked to fit a home made hho kit to someones Diesel Volvo a couple of months ago. I completed the installation pretty easy, he came back to me a couple of weeks later claiming huge MPG increase, his average had gone up from 45-almost 60mpg which is amazing!

This got me really thinking, I did loads of research online listening to the believers and none believers and decided the only way to really work out if this technology is worth it is to have a go.

I have a 2000 Peugeot 306 diesel HDi 90bhp as standard, running 21psi boost front mounted intercooler and now runs 155bhp and 260 ftlb torque so the engine is heavily tuned over standard.

I went out and thought this looked like a nice kit: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Twin-Hydrogen-HHO-Kit-more-MPG-with-water-stainless-316_W0QQitemZ140296594537QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item140296594537&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318 so purchased one from www.hydrochargeme.com

On receiving the kit all the build quality seemed good and was reasonably impressed, however was a little shocked to find there was not a series of stainless plates just litrally a posotive and a negative rod sitting inside the container, surley that cant be the most effective way to produce hydrogen?

The kit uses potassium hydroxide as an electrolyte around 2.5g per 900ml of water

Yesturday I finished installing the kit, cant say I have noticed any difference to drive yet. And of corse having only done about 20 miles I havnt been able to record a MPG increase.

I really want this technology to work and prove it does, Im just wondering what you experts think I should do as far as improving the setup.

I found these on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HHO-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-10-PLATES-CELL-Browns-Gas-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177Q QhashZitem220349118739QQitemZ220349118739QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories which Im pretty sure I could link up to fit inside my containers, is it worth it?

So my main questions are:

Am I wasting my time trying to achieve better MPG with hydrogen and a 2.0 diesel which is already pretty efficient receiving around 45mpg day to day?

If not, is it worth installing stainless plates into my units rather than just 1 prongs like it comes with as standard?

Is potassium hydroxide the best electrolyte for me to use?

What some of amp draw should I be looking to use on a reasonably small engine like this.

Thank in advance for any advice. Cheers Robb

[Painless]

Robb,

Welcome to the forum!

What you have there is basically an expensive kettle. It will produce a small amount of hydrogen and oxygen but mostly steam which will carry the potassium hydroxide into your intake where it will happily eat away at any aluminium parts in your engine.

Despite its reaction with aluminium, potassium hydroxide is the best catalyst, you just need to use it the right way. Don't spend anymore money on ebay or other purchased kits unless you are willing to buy a properly designed and built dry cell.

For a 2.0 litre diesel you should be able to see results with a design that produces around 1.5 to 2 litres per minute of HHO. You could try building yourself a smacks booster (google it for the plans) or attempt to make your own dry cell. If you're interested in the dry cell, check out my thread under 'General Discussions' entitled 'Painless experiment in HHO'. I have a wealth of information on building dry cells along with a how to video I made.

One last thing, you will need to make sure your HHO is injected before the turbo as the pressure after will be too much.

Best of luck! Stick around the forum and read, learn and ask questions. There are plenty here only too happy to help.

Russ.

[dougie175]

Lol so the simple answer is yes Ive just wasted £100 on this? I have no idea why but I always join forums before doing anything but for some reason I didnt on this 1!

Ok so to wind back what sort of money am I looking at spending to make a noticable mpg increase? And also what sort of gains can I expect from this sort of kit on an already pretty efficient diesel engine?

For me I have to be able to get back what the unit costs to install within a year or so to make it worthwhile otherwise I will be better of investing my money in a bio diesel reactor!

Thanks for the reply much apprechiated

[cully]

hi there on the 2000 Peugeot 306 diesel HDi 90bhp stay away from the bio diesel or veg oil as when the lift pump fails (and it will) the hp pump runs dry seizing up taking the cam belt out which bends all the valves in the head....expensive experiment !!!

as for HHO you need to understand how the cars ECU manages the fuel injection as i understand this engine is a common rail diesel

how dose the ecu adjust the fuel injection pulses
via MAF sensor or O2 sensor



@ the mo im experimenting by running a dry cell on a 1.5 diesel peugeot 106 (indirect injection non turbo)

[dougie175]

Hmm I know people with the identicle engine who have been running a 50% bio diesel mix and even 1 of those has been running a 100% mix, the 100% mix guy has been using it for 4 years without any problem and the 3 50% guys have been using it for 3 years also without any problems.

I believe Peugeot recommend a 30% mix safely.

As for the ECU it uses the MAF as the car does not have an O2 sensor.

[Painless]

Robb,

How big is the inside of the HHO unit you purchased? If you can furnish some internal measurements then we may be able to suggest a replacement 'core' so to speak.

Russ.

[cully]

you need to run a mix of diesel + bio as the pumps use the diesel to lubricate itself and the bio does not have the lubrication properties needed

i cant buy bio or vegoil cheap enough now thats why im experimenting with HHO

[dougie175]

Robb,

How big is the inside of the HHO unit you purchased? If you can furnish some internal measurements then we may be able to suggest a replacement 'core' so to speak.

Russ.

Its a twin setup, roughly 8cm round and 20cm high. My engine bay is very tight so have to keep things as compact as possible

[dougie175]

you need to run a mix of diesel + bio as the pumps use the diesel to lubricate itself and the bio does not have the lubrication properties needed

i cant buy bio or vegoil cheap enough now thats why im experimenting with HHO

Aye I would agree I wouldnt personally use a 100% bio mix for those reasons.

No where around here sells bio, however theres a guy about 10 miles away producing the stuff at a very high quality safly without it costs a fortune.

My dads cousin also owns a chip shop so I should be able to get used oil cheap or for free!

If Its more haslle than its worth and I wont get my money back I wont bother, but its worth looking into still I feel

[Painless]

Its a twin setup, roughly 8cm round and 20cm high. My engine bay is very tight so have to keep things as compact as possible

8cm in circumference or inside diameter?

[dougie175]

inside diameter bud

[Painless]

In that case, you have enough area to put together a smacks type plate configuration and mount it inside.

[dougie175]

As in countinue to you the same containers but look into producing a smack plate setup?

Is there anywhere I can purchase a couple ready to drop in that I can connect up to my posotive and negative?

[dougie175]

I have just been and measured the twin pots accuratly.

I pots have an inside diameter of 8cm and a total height of 19cm

I have two of these, they have a nice clear water level clear strip up the side which is handy.

I am about to invest in one of these bubblers http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Water-Bubbler-for-Hydrogen-Cell-HHO-Generator_W0QQitemZ330303444526QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3303034 44526&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1686%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318 I cant source the materials and produce my own bubbler for the price of that one, it looks very well made.

I will also place a 1 way valve between the pots and the bubbler for safety.

The only part I am having troubles with is producing the smack designed plates, Im not sure where to find the raw materials in england to produce them. Is there anyone willing to produce some plates using the measurements of my pots and send them to me for a fee of corse?

Also do I need to continue using twin pots with the smack plates design? Or will a single pot produce enough hydrogen?

Look forward to replys, Thank You

[H2OPWR]

I have just been and measured the twin pots accuratly.

I pots have an inside diameter of 8cm and a total height of 19cm

I have two of these, they have a nice clear water level clear strip up the side which is handy.

I am about to invest in one of these bubblers http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Water-Bubbler-for-Hydrogen-Cell-HHO-Generator_W0QQitemZ330303444526QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3303034 44526&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1686%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318 I cant source the materials and produce my own bubbler for the price of that one, it looks very well made.

I will also place a 1 way valve between the pots and the bubbler for safety.

The only part I am having troubles with is producing the smack designed plates, Im not sure where to find the raw materials in england to produce them. Is there anyone willing to produce some plates using the measurements of my pots and send them to me for a fee of corse?

Also do I need to continue using twin pots with the smack plates design? Or will a single pot produce enough hydrogen?

Look forward to replys, Thank You

This guy will bo it for you and does great work

http://www.hhoforums.com/member.php?u=2129

Just e-mail him and he will get right back to you.

Larry

[dougie175]

Hope so I have emailed him, thanks