neutral plates

[gashead]

ive seen many plate arrangemaents since ive joinded this forum. it has been very helpful and also confusing,LOL. my alternator voltage is 14.4 volts. i have 1/8 inch and 1/32 gaskets and enough 316l ss plate .060 thick to make 50 or so 4 x 4 plates. i wanted to see what you recommend as how to arrange the plates. +nnn- or +nnnnnn- or +nnnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn- or are there any other suggestions? i have not cut the plates yet if 4x4 is a bad size id like to know

[gashead]

I personally would not go with 4x4, but I have a lot of room to work with. What you need to do is figure out where you are going to put the cell first. Take measurements and plan from there.

Shane

mounting on my lower radiator support, behind my grill. i can go up to 8x8 if thats better.

[gashead]

i need to add that my wet cell is currently drawing 15 amps, i have had no problems running this but dont want to go any higher with my dry cell. thank you

[gashead]

Your probably better going with 6x6. The reason I say that is there is more than 2x the surface area on a 6x6 than a 4x4. I would rather have a 6x6 - 22 plate instead of a 4x4 - 50, approx the same surface area - not taking the gasket in the equation.
Not to mention less than half the gaskets to cut with a 6x6…..
Another point, the 4x4 – 50 is going to be very thick.

With all that being said, if you are looking at just drawing 15 amps @ 14.4 I would go with a +DDDDDD-DDDDDD+ configuration (not to confuse, the D is kind of an inside joke… It’s the same thing as a N plate. :) ) Actually at only 15 amps you would probably be safe with just a +DDDDDD- cell.

i wasnt actually going to use all 50 plates in one gen. im going to build 2 gens with the 2 different thickness gaskets that i have and compare

[H2OPWR]

i need to add that my wet cell is currently drawing 15 amps, i have had no problems running this but dont want to go any higher with my dry cell. thank you

If 15 amps is your goal 50 plates is overkill. You will not need nearly that many. Just my opinion but I would go with a 13 plate design -nnnnn+nnnnn-
using 8x8 plates. Assuming 50 sq inches of available plate surface on each side of the plate exposed to electrolite after your gaskets take part of it up. You would have 1200 sq inches of plate surface. Using SSC's rule of thumb of 1 watt for every 4 sq inches you could run up to 300 watts of power. At 14.4 volts you would have the capability of using up to 21 amps and still run cool. Assuming a good cell design and 5.5 MMW you woulg get bstween 1.5 and 1.75 LPM of HHO gas at 20 amps. At 15 amps you would get around 1.2 LPM assuming 5.5 MMW. From what I have seen with a good cell design and the right spacing 5.5 MMW is acheivable even higher but that involves much work. There will be many opinions and mine is just that an opinion based on the things I have learned and I have much more to learn.

Larry

[gashead]

If 15 amps is your goal 50 plates is overkill. You will not need nearly that many. Just my opinion but I would go with a 13 plate design -nnnnn+nnnnn-
using 8x8 plates. Assuming 50 sq inches of available plate surface on each side of the plate exposed to electrolite after your gaskets take part of it up. You would have 1200 sq inches of plate surface. Using SSC's rule of thumb of 1 watt for every 4 sq inches you could run up to 300 watts of power. At 14.4 volts you would have the capability of using up to 21 amps and still run cool. Assuming a good cell design and 5.5 MMW you woulg get bstween 1.5 and 1.75 LPM of HHO gas at 20 amps. At 15 amps you would get around 1.2 LPM assuming 5.5 MMW. From what I have seen with a good cell design and the right spacing 5.5 MMW is acheivable even higher but that involves much work. There will be many opinions and mine is just that an opinion based on the things I have learned and I have much more to learn.

Larry



my truck only has a 60 amp alternator. 15 amps have not caused any problems so far, im afraid that getting into the 20's might be pushing my luck!
but you never know i have been known to take chances!!!!!!

[H2OPWR]

With only a 60 amp alternator I would agree with your 15 amp limit totally. The problem with taking those chances is that the HHO Device will drain your battery. It will happen when it is dark (headlights) cold (heater) and there you will be. I know first hand. I have done just that. That was when I first found about thermal runaway. I did not even have an amp meter installed so I had no Idea that the amp draw would increase and was increasing with heat. Dark and 20 below zero with no battery is not fun!

[gashead]

With only a 60 amp alternator I would agree with your 15 amp limit totally. The problem with taking those chances is that the HHO Device will drain your battery. It will happen when it is dark (headlights) cold (heater) and there you will be. I know first hand. I have done just that. That was when I first found about thermal runaway. I did not even have an amp meter installed so I had no Idea that the amp draw would increase and was increasing with heat. Dark and 20 below zero with no battery is not fun!

i have tried running my lights on bright and heater wide open and the windshield wipers on full blast, still pulling right at 15 amps and my volt gauge in the truck was almost pegged at ( 8 volts ) really worried me, but after i stopped it fired right back up. but i dont think i should push it much further. i only went 18 miles like that

[H2OPWR]

i have tried running my lights on bright and heater wide open and the windshield wipers on full blast, still pulling right at 15 amps and my volt gauge in the truck was almost pegged at ( 8 volts ) really worried me, but after i stopped it fired right back up. but i dont think i should push it much further. i only went 18 miles like that

At 8 volts your battery is discharging. You WILL be left stranded with those conditions it is only a matter of time. I would seriously consider a higher amp alternator. Very high amp alternators 200+ amp are very expensive but you should be able to find a 100 to 120 amp alternator for a reasonable amount of money. Good luck and most of all be careful. I would duplicate those conditions in your driveway. Turn on everything on that draws power except your HHO Gen. With a good amp meter check your alternator output. Find out how much power you have in reserve. Another thing to keep in mind is that they rate alternators for a peak rating (cold). They will only maintain that output for a short time. Even the best alternator will only provede just above 90% of peak amp load as a continual draw after they get hot. Many OEM alternators are not very high quality. For example I have a Nissan Frontier. It has an alternator manufactured by Valeo. It is rated at 130 amps. I have tested it and it will put out 130 amps for only about 2 or 3 minutes. After 10 minutes of max draw it drops to 105 amps and stays there. Mine loses 20% off peak amps hot. I have not tested any others but have been told several times that is normal.

[gashead]

At 8 volts your battery is discharging. You WILL be left stranded with those conditions it is only a matter of time. I would seriously consider a higher amp alternator. Very high amp alternators 200+ amp are very expensive but you should be able to find a 100 to 120 amp alternator for a reasonable amount of money. Good luck and most of all be careful. I would duplicate those conditions in your driveway. Turn on everything on that draws power except your HHO Gen. With a good amp meter check your alternator output. Find out how much power you have in reserve. Another thing to keep in mind is that they rate alternators for a peak rating (cold). They will only maintain that output for a short time. Even the best alternator will only provede just above 90% of peak amp load as a continual draw after they get hot. Many OEM alternators are not very high quality. For example I have a Nissan Frontier. It has an alternator manufactured by Valeo. It is rated at 130 amps. I have tested it and it will put out 130 amps for only about 2 or 3 minutes. After 10 minutes of max draw it drops to 105 amps and stays there. Mine loses 20% off peak amps hot. I have not tested any others but have been told several times that is normal.

ive tried to find one, my truck came with an 80 amp alt. it went out one week before i installed my gen. the only one i could get to fit my truck was the 60 amp ( forth alternator i tried ) so im a bit limited. what do you think about installing a 5 watt solar panel to assist the alt. with a charge controller it should recharge the battery every time i stop the engine. i never travel more than 20 miles at one time. do you think this would help me to push a little more amps? im not sure, is hho production at 15 amps enough for a 300 ci engine?

[H2OPWR]

ive tried to find one, my truck came with an 80 amp alt. it went out one week before i installed my gen. the only one i could get to fit my truck was the 60 amp ( forth alternator i tried ) so im a bit limited. what do you think about installing a 5 watt solar panel to assist the alt. with a charge controller it should recharge the battery every time i stop the engine. i never travel more than 20 miles at one time. do you think this would help me to push a little more amps? im not sure, is hho production at 15 amps enough for a 300 ci engine?


Because I am not sure what truck you drive I am goung to assume that is an F-150 because that is the only vehicle I know of that has used a 300 ci engine. The inline 6 cyl 300 ci engine is a beast. A very durable and dependable engine that ford used over 25 years. While durable and dependable it is not a very clean burning engine. I am sure with a few tricks you can get 1 lpm to help quite a bit but if I could afford it I would add more like 4lpm HHO (just my opinion) I am sure others will disagree. I have no idea of your financial situation but there are higher amp alternators everywhere for all F-series trucks. The best I know of is from a company called Mean Green. They are pricey Around $350 to $400.00 for a 200 amp version but for high amp alternators that is very cheap. For my Frontier they want $750.00 plus freight. If your truck is a F-150 a 100 to 120 amp alternator should be around $100.00.

[gashead]

Because I am not sure what truck you drive I am goung to assume that is an F-150 because that is the only vehicle I know of that has used a 300 ci engine. The inline 6 cyl 300 ci engine is a beast. A very durable and dependable engine that ford used over 25 years. While durable and dependable it is not a very clean burning engine. I am sure with a few tricks you can get 1 lpm to help quite a bit but if I could afford it I would add more like 4lpm HHO (just my opinion) I am sure others will disagree. I have no idea of your financial situation but there are higher amp alternators everywhere for all F-series trucks. The best I know of is from a company called Mean Green. They are pricey Around $350 to $400.00 for a 200 amp version but for high amp alternators that is very cheap. For my Frontier they want $750.00 plus freight. If your truck is a F-150 a 100 to 120 amp alternator should be around $100.00.

yes its a f-150 (87 model) it has 241000 miles on it and dont use a drop of oil. there are 6 different alternators from the factory most have mounting holes 90 degrees apart. mine has to be the one with an offset mounting hole, and the only one i could find with this pattern had to be a 60 amp. ( yes i was ticked off) because i had my generators ready to install. i think the solar panels will be cheaper to install, ( i paid $ 181 for this alt. ) than to hunt different brackets and purchace another alternator. do you see any problems with solar panels or should i connect another alt off my driveshaft and run it on a dedicated service seperate from the trucks wiring. ( i know it sounds like im getting carried away, but i have made driveshafts before) i can weld a pulley to mine and mount another alternator under the truck.

[H2OPWR]

yes its a f-150 (87 model) it has 241000 miles on it and dont use a drop of oil. there are 6 different alternators from the factory most have mounting holes 90 degrees apart. mine has to be the one with an offset mounting hole, and the only one i could find with this pattern had to be a 60 amp. ( yes i was ticked off) because i had my generators ready to install. i think the solar panels will be cheaper to install, ( i paid $ 181 for this alt. ) than to hunt different brackets and purchace another alternator. do you see any problems with solar panels or should i connect another alt off my driveshaft and run it on a dedicated service seperate from the trucks wiring. ( i know it sounds like im getting carried away, but i have made driveshafts before) i can weld a pulley to mine and mount another alternator under the truck.

You are right about that. I was at a Ford dealership in the mid eighty's and the 100 amp option had different brackets than the standard 60 amp alternator. I know nothing about solar panels but 5 watts is not much and the sun needs to shine to make it work. Personally it seems that wercking yard brackets and the 100 amp alternator may be less expensive than a dual set-up. The brackets off a 100 amp alternator should bolt right on the truck.

[gashead]

You are right about that. I was at a Ford dealership in the mid eighty's and the 100 amp option had different brackets than the standard 60 amp alternator. I know nothing about solar panels but 5 watts is not much and the sun needs to shine to make it work. Personally it seems that wercking yard brackets and the 100 amp alternator may be less expensive than a dual set-up. The brackets off a 100 amp alternator should bolt right on the truck.

yes i know they will. since the fuel hike a few months ago scrap metal went out of sight. it really hard to fing anything from the 80's here. its all been scrapped. all of the local junk yards have been emptied around me!!!