Leaking Water4Gas

[Mark'sGas]

I have a 2006 KIA Spectra 27 MPG city and highway. I added a Water4Gas cell on it and improved the mileage to 8.7 MPG both city and highway. I like the cell design, but it needs help, it leaks too much.

Any ideas as to a better container?

Thanks

[Painless]

PVC pipe makes a good container, you can get a pressure test cap for the top, or glue on a removable inspection cap and end cap.

[H2OPWR]

I have a 2006 KIA Spectra 27 MPG city and highway. I added a Water4Gas cell on it and improved the mileage to 8.7 MPG both city and highway. I like the cell design, but it needs help, it leaks too much.

Any ideas as to a better container?

Thanks

Mark, You will find the members here very willing to help. But most including myself have been down the road of open bath designs including the one you are running. The best advice is that there is no really good containers for a water4gas type cell. My best advice is not to spend any more of your money on an open bath type cell of any kind. That is why I do not want to suggest any other container. THEY ALL FAIL OVER TIME. Read some of the threads here. The best type cell is a dry cell configuration. They may cost you some money up front but if you beleive anything belive this. You will spend more money trying to get an open bath cell effecient than a dry cell will cost you to build. Then if you stay with HHO you will build a dry cell anyway in the end.

[daddymikey1975]

Mark,
welcome to the forum.

I think you'd be time and money ahead if you were to pursue dry cells as they're more efficient.

what you'll find if you travel this windy road are these struggles...
1... what's the best container?
2.... now my container leaks
3. .. container's fixed.. whats the best plate setup?? washers? connectors? spacers?? (etc.. months and months of tests later, you settle on a design)
4.... my plates are turning brown.. (oops used baking soda)
5.. .. my cell is getting REALLY hot now and melting connections (now you need to lower heat)
6... .. whats the best spacer ?? (months more testing different ones till you find one that works)
7..... whats the best stuff to wrap it ? (to prevent current leakage around the plates)
8.... . ..now i don't get anything over .25LPM .. . i need more production..
9..... . . build 6 generators . . . .(several more months. . and tons of money purchasing test stuff that doesnt work well only to be replaced by more, etc. etc.)
10... . . . now I need a bubbler.. or two. . . (more months and months trying to 'find the best setup' )
11. . . . . how can I get control of the current draw ? ( now more testing with a PWM )
12. . ..... now I cant get an increase in MPG. . . (more electronic mods experimentation )

.......

ok.. now we've stopped at a part of the journey where we can look back and decide that a dry cell will solve virtually all of the maladies that these 'brick in a bath' designs are stricken with.

in a nutshell.. throw in the towel on pursuing this design and research a really good dry cell..
members that have extensive research, testing and information :
Painless experiment in HHO (or any of his stuff)
H20PWR has done some amazing things with tons of videos and pictures as well.
BoyntonStu has contributed much.. check out his amoeba cell (a version of dry cell the he has made very small and very efficient with decent production especially for it's physical size)
Smith03Jetta did his own experimentation as well and has had great luck in the past with a version of submerged plates in a container. it's worth the time to read on all the experimentation.

(these are the ones that stand out in my head)

I hope this helps
mike

[coffeeachiever]

Agree, agree, and agree.
Wet cells will cross the 140 degree threshold for PVC glue and your container will leak (thanks Russ for for figuring that one out for me).
A dry cell is relatively easy to build, solves most of the issues created by wet cells and produces like a champ.
I told another member the other day, if you don't go to a dry cell now, later you will come to the conclusion that you should have.

[Painless]

Agree, agree, and agree.
Wet cells will cross the 140 degree threshold for PVC glue and your container will leak (thanks Russ for for figuring that one out for me).
A dry cell is relatively easy to build, solves most of the issues created by wet cells and produces like a champ.
I told another member the other day, if you don't go to a dry cell now, later you will come to the conclusion that you should have.

I found a great solution to the PVC glue issue, by the way:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/3178789920_155c6b049e.jpg

Pressure test cap for the top and a flexible rubber end cap for the bottom. Not a dab of glue in sight and doesn't leak one drop!

[Mark'sGas]

Wow!!!! Thank's guys!!!

I would like to thank each and every one of you for all the info. It was a lot to take in.

Painless,
You answered the question that I had about how to keep an eye on the water level within PVC . Removable inspection cap.


H2OPWR,
Thank you for being open about the draw backs to the bath design generator and for suggesting to move into the dry cell hho. However, the dry cell design has put a lot of questions in my mine, such as how to build it? What type of stainless steel to use? Where does the catalyst go? What type of catalyst would be best for the most hho out put? Last but not least, would the dry cell need a push or pull pump to deliver the hho to the engine or will the vaccum from the engine be enough to get it there?


daddymikey1975,
It would seem you have traveled the windy raod before me,
because you are dead on with the problems that my friend (gashead) and I have ran into and some we've not encountered yet. Thanks for step by step brake down. You've let us see into the future. We have looked on the internet at so many different hho designs that we're almost online blind!! LOL!!

I'm glad that I signed up on this forum now, it as been and I know that it will continue to be a big help!!

[coffeeachiever]

MarksGas,
There are several dry cell designs.
1.Google EnergyBuildersNetwork
2.Check out Painless expriment in HHO thread on this forum (long read, but worth every minute)
3.Look at the amoeba cell (forum search)
4.Check out the Tero cell
5. H2OPWR's experiments have moved this technology forward. Read them.

Those will get you started.
Russ (Painless) has developed a bubbler that solves any electrolyte loss, which is minimal if you use NaOH or KOH. A good electrolyte is a true catalyst that does not get used up.
You need to use 316L stainless for your cell, but 304 will do on a budget.
A pump is not neccessary and is even counterproductive. It draws more amps than it's worth. Go with gravity feed.

[Painless]

Painless,
You answered the question that I had about how to keep an eye on the water level within PVC . Removable inspection cap.

Even easier, insert two right-angled plastic hose barbs into one side of the PVC pipe, one at the top pointing down, one in line with it at the bottom pointing up. Connect the two with some see through plastic hose. Now, you can see the fluid level without even removing the cap.

[coffeeachiever]

Even easier, insert two right-angled plastic hose barbs into one side of the PVC pipe, one at the top pointing down, one in line with it at the bottom pointing up. Connect the two with some see through plastic hose. Now, you can see the fluid level without even removing the cap.

Thats a good idea. I like the idea too of running an LED to the resevoir that uses the electrolyte to stay lit. When it goes out, it's time to add water.

[H2OPWR]

Wow!!!! Thank's guys!!!

I would like to thank each and every one of you for all the info. It was a lot to take in.

Painless,
You answered the question that I had about how to keep an eye on the water level within PVC . Removable inspection cap.


H2OPWR,
Thank you for being open about the draw backs to the bath design generator and for suggesting to move into the dry cell hho. However, the dry cell design has put a lot of questions in my mine, such as how to build it? What type of stainless steel to use? Where does the catalyst go? What type of catalyst would be best for the most hho out put? Last but not least, would the dry cell need a push or pull pump to deliver the hho to the engine or will the vaccum from the engine be enough to get it there?


daddymikey1975,
It would seem you have traveled the windy raod before me,
because you are dead on with the problems that my friend (gashead) and I have ran into and some we've not encountered yet. Thanks for step by step brake down. You've let us see into the future. We have looked on the internet at so many different hho designs that we're almost online blind!! LOL!!

I'm glad that I signed up on this forum now, it as been and I know that it will continue to be a big help!!

Mark,
Painless has a great video on building a dry cell. There is no one perfect way. As for stainless. Use 316L if you can afford it. In the for sale section a member that goes by SCM sells stainless at a very good price and does great work. As for electrolite use KOH if you can find it if not use NaOH both are light years better than baking soda. Keep checking and read all the threads you can all the way through. I would be thousands of dollars ahead had I done that before I begain.

Larry

[Mark'sGas]

Even easier, insert two right-angled plastic hose barbs into one side of the PVC pipe, one at the top pointing down, one in line with it at the bottom pointing up. Connect the two with some see through plastic hose. Now, you can see the fluid level without even removing the cap.

That's cool! You'll have an exterial window.

I may give this design a shot. Thanks

I liked the pic. very helpful!

[Mark'sGas]

Mark,
Painless has a great video on building a dry cell. There is no one perfect way. As for stainless. Use 316L if you can afford it. In the for sale section a member that goes by SCM sells stainless at a very good price and does great work. As for electrolite use KOH if you can find it if not use NaOH both are light years better than baking soda. Keep checking and read all the threads you can all the way through. I would be thousands of dollars ahead had I done that before I begain.

Larry

Larry,
Thanks for the heads up! It looks like gashead and I have a lot of reading to do. I'm sure that it will be worth every minute, because the little bit of info so far has very helpful!

Thanks,
Mark

[Mark'sGas]

Even easier, insert two right-angled plastic hose barbs into one side of the PVC pipe, one at the top pointing down, one in line with it at the bottom pointing up. Connect the two with some see through plastic hose. Now, you can see the fluid level without even removing the cap.

That's cool! You'll have an exterial window.

I may give this design a shot. Thanks

I liked the pic. very helpful!