Honda Civic Hybrid

[jerzhere]

I am looking at installing an HHO unit into my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. One issue I am trying to work out is how do I get the HHO Cell to shut off and then come back on when the gas engine shuts down?

For those that may not know, the civic hybrid will auto shut down the engine when the car is at a compete stop and then auto start it again when you take your foot off the brake.

I am thinking there should be a way to tap into a relay or something like that so it will tell the HHO Cell to start only when the engine is running. Due to the why the car works I cannot simply use the ignition on/off.

One other question. Has anyone seen any damage from using HHO. I've seen in some post that damage as occurred when a unit is setup wrong... but I am wondering more about issue with rust/corrosion in the engine/exhaust or issues with increased engine heat.

<rant>
I imagine some of you will say... why try to increase the mpg on a hybrid. Well let me tell you... they are not what they seem to be! I bought mine brand new in 2006. It was advertised as getting 60/50 (highway/city). For the first year I got about 46 mpg. Then I noticed my tires, all four, were bald. I had to replace all four tired and have a complete alignment down. All this at about 33k miles! Since then, I get about 41 mpg. So the advertised mpg could only be achieved with bad alignment. Meaning it was because there was less tire surface area so it got better mpg. Now, the civic hybrid is being advertised as getting 45 mpg. Go Figure!!!
</rant>

Thanks!
jerry

[Q-Hack!]

I am looking at installing an HHO unit into my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. One issue I am trying to work out is how do I get the HHO Cell to shut off and then come back on when the gas engine shuts down?

For those that may not know, the civic hybrid will auto shut down the engine when the car is at a compete stop and then auto start it again when you take your foot off the brake.

I am thinking there should be a way to tap into a relay or something like that so it will tell the HHO Cell to start only when the engine is running. Due to the why the car works I cannot simply use the ignition on/off.

You could just attach the relay to the brake light/pedal switch.


One other question. Has anyone seen any damage from using HHO. I've seen in some post that damage as occurred when a unit is setup wrong... but I am wondering more about issue with rust/corrosion in the engine/exhaust or issues with increased engine heat.

Thanks!
jerry

For those who live in areas where the roads are salted is a bigger issue than the amount of corrosion created by the HHO systems. I look at it this way... I expect my exhaust to rust out eventually. When it does, I will replace it with a stainless steel version. If that happens sooner with the use of HHO then so be it, I have already budgeted for it.

[redneck323]

If it were me i would run the cell relay off the supply terminal of the fuel pump relay that way when the gas motor comes on the fuel pump obviously comes on energizing your cell relay. I havnt worked on a civic hybrid yet but so i dont know if it has a easliy accessible fuel pump relay but if not just find a fused source on the engine that only energizes when the gas engine comes on. Use a voltmeter to be sure but other possible places maybe the ignition coil(s) other than that i cant think of anything else right now that would have 12volts most others are 5v reference based.

Good Luck

[Q-Hack!]

If it were me i would run the cell relay off the supply terminal of the fuel pump relay that way when the gas motor comes on the fuel pump obviously comes on energizing your cell relay. I havnt worked on a civic hybrid yet but so i dont know if it has a easliy accessible fuel pump relay but if not just find a fused source on the engine that only energizes when the gas engine comes on. Use a voltmeter to be sure but other possible places maybe the ignition coil(s) other than that i cant think of anything else right now that would have 12volts most others are 5v reference based.

Good Luck

This is assuming that your fuel pump isn't an always on type. I have always been under the impression that the fuel pump remains on with the ignition so that the response time is faster. I could be wrong about this though.

[jerzhere]

If it were me i would run the cell relay off the supply terminal of the fuel pump relay that way when the gas motor comes on the fuel pump obviously comes on energizing your cell relay. I havnt worked on a civic hybrid yet but so i dont know if it has a easliy accessible fuel pump relay but if not just find a fused source on the engine that only energizes when the gas engine comes on. Use a voltmeter to be sure but other possible places maybe the ignition coil(s) other than that i cant think of anything else right now that would have 12volts most others are 5v reference based.

Good Luck


I think this is on the right track. The pedal relay would not work because sometimes the gas engine does not shut off at a stop. It'll be a while before I am ready to install a cell... once I do I'll post the results.

[Painless]

There must be a relay that initiates the electric motor when the gas engine cuts off. You could invert that signal and use it for your relay.

[Q-Hack!]

There must be a relay that initiates the electric motor when the gas engine cuts off. You could invert that signal and use it for your relay.

I would imagine that signal would come from the cars CPU. Of course autozone.com doesn't have any information on the hybrids. A schematic would be usefull.

[alpha-dog]

Can you use a oil pressure switch or vaccuum switch

[Q-Hack!]

Can you use a oil pressure switch or vaccuum switch

Something like this:

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/mamco-precision-switches/low-current-adjustable-pressure-vacuum-switch-40769-351931.html

[redneck323]

Well Jerzhere I did some looking online to see if the fuel pump runs continuosly which i had no idea they would do that if they are trying to save fuel economy but it makes sense for a smoother transition from electric to gas. I work in the field and if i remember i will call my local honda buddy and find out for you. I know there has got to be a 12 volt switching source when the engine starts.As far as inverting a signal from the electric motor source i dont know maybe thats the answer but i hope you know not to toy with the hybrid stuff unless you know exactly what you are doing. There is lots of voltage in the hybrid systems.By the way i found this pretty interesting site about hypermiling your Civic pretty informal what i read anyhow i didnt read alot but may be helpful. http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306 Good Luck I will get ya some info tomarrow and try to get it here for you

[Cadillac]

Might just be saying the obvious here but if you run something that requires that much amp draw you are going to end up running the gas motor more and more.

Turn the car on go out driving. Leave the car and stop it, radio on....etc..the gas motor has to come back on to charge the batteries. Point being if you use the electrical system in this car to power the HHO system it is going to be next to impossible to see any gains. In coasting type situations the gas motor may remain on longer, stuff like that. On top of that if you try to lean out the motor it is not going to recharge as fast because of the lack of power, or in comparison to power it had before.

If you really wanted to add HHO on a hybrid like this it might be better to get a decent SLA battery to power it. It would depend on your actual HHO system, driving amounts and particular battery, I would think that at the very least you design something economically that would last you a normal day of driving (charging at night) or with more money one that could go multiple days. Just depends. In a scenario like this you have an actual power adder, not trying to supplement anything.

[redneck323]

I am thinking that if the cell only runs with the gas engine there would still be a gain i understand your thinking Cadillac but doesnt the alternator spin with the gas engine so if the cell only comes on with the gas engine the cell is only running when the alternator is charging... no spinning so then there would be no theoretical difference in a hybrid vs conventional engine. I believe that for the MOST part the 12volt system and its charging components are seperate from the few hundred volt hybrid electric drive system, and i am just stating what i believe as i have no experience with hybrid systems other than Remove and replace crash components. I turned in my wrenches just before the majority of hybrids warrantys were up.

[jerzhere]

Might just be saying the obvious here but if you run something that requires that much amp draw you are going to end up running the gas motor more and more.


I'm not sure if this would be the case. I would defiantly run my cell of the alternator, which is only running then the engine is running... I think. I'll need to double check that... cause if that is the case, problem solved. Simply hook it up to the alternator and the cell would only run when the engine is running... hmmm.

As for charging the hybrid battery, it does it when braking, deceleration, and if the battery gets too low. In the case where it is too low the alternator is probably used to charge it.

[Cadillac]

I may be mistaken on the system that was in that car. I thought it had the motor was between the engine and the transmission. It would be the starter and the alternator, also being an AC source.

[redneck323]

Jerz you cant use the alternator power feed its self because it is a solid wire straight to the battery so it will have voltage all the time, but you may be able to use the signal wire if it is a PCM regulated style i dont know if this is the case i know chrysler did this on the Caravan a while but i cant say i have seen this on a honda. However i did put the word into my honda guy and due to an extremely busy day i did not have time to follow up when he failed to call me back. He did state that it was as a constant on fuel pump like Q-Hack had said. I did however tell him to please find me a source that switches on or off with the gas engine starts he said he will get back to me since i now work for a body shop i no longer have access to powertrain wiring diagrams or i would look it up, so i have to go through my dealer friend unless i get time to stop by my old work and use all data or mitchell to look at the diagram my self.

[redneck323]

Cadillac you might be right. I am unfamiliar with the car entirely only making statements that i believe would be the case. I just assume that there is a DC source somewhere to run the electronics unless they use a transformer which i wouldnt think they would but then again ya never know LOL. But i will most certainly try to get an answer for you Jerz.