Ignition Timing

[livehho]

Is it absolutely necessary to adjust the ignition timing of a car right after installing an HHO cell?

I've seen lots of discussions about this and not sure what's the truth.

If so, I would need to take a look at the workshop manual of my Discovery and figure out how to do that.

[daddymikey1975]

Is it absolutely necessary to adjust the ignition timing of a car right after installing an HHO cell?

I've seen lots of discussions about this and not sure what's the truth.

If so, I would need to take a look at the workshop manual of my Discovery and figure out how to do that.

I believe the car's computer will make the compensation for you. I've not heard of anyone (except carbureted) that has had to adjust their timing.

mike

[Boltazar]

I don't think the PCM will make adjustments to the timming when you add HHO to the mix. How will it know when it's there, Higher Oxygen readings at the O2 sensors, that will just richen up the gas mixture. I havent hooked up my system yet but I think the timming should be retarted about 5 to 10 deg. HHO makes a faster and more complete burn. I've seen my GMC sierra reach 53 deg before TDC with gas only, that's way to soon for ignition with HHO.

In my quest to learn about HHO and it's use I have taken another road to tricking the PCM. I'm reading how to change the tables in the computer to avoid popping codes.

[H2OPWR]

Is it absolutely necessary to adjust the ignition timing of a car right after installing an HHO cell?

I've seen lots of discussions about this and not sure what's the truth.

If so, I would need to take a look at the workshop manual of my Discovery and figure out how to do that.

Most of todays cars have no way for you to adjust the timing. Even most dealerships do not have a way to do it. Even if you have a car that can have the timing adjusted by the dealership they will not do it for you. It messes with emissions and that is against the law. If you are one of the lucky ones that have a vehicle that companies like Superchips has hacked the codes those devices cost a lot of money and usually have only programs to increase performance. Those advance the timing. The one thing that helps is that all of todays cars sense pre-ignition which is our problem. They then retard the timing to eliminate the problem. Unless you plan on putting lots and lots of HHO in your car you should not have a problem. With the amount of amps that we are limited to due to your electrical systems maximum ability you should not be able to put excessive HHO in your intake.

[H2OPWR]

One more thing Livehho. If I read your post right you own a Land Rover. I have been in the car business a long time and know cars. If you plan any electrical mod's be very careful. There are a few vehicles that have very sensitive electronics and Land Rover is one of them. One slight mistake and it is thousands of dollars.

[coffeeachiever]

One more thing Livehho. If I read your post right you own a Land Rover. I have been in the car business a long time and know cars. If you plan any electrical mod's be very careful. There are a few vehicles that have very sensitive electronics and Land Rover is one of them. One slight mistake and it is thousands of dollars.

What are some other cars we shouldn't mess with besides land rovers and hybrids?

[daddymikey1975]

What are some other cars we shouldn't mess with besides land rovers and hybrids?

we can mess with these, we just need to be mindful.

I remote start land rovers, audi's, lexus' BMW's, benzos, saab's, hybrids.. all the time..

granted, i need to take more time, and pay attention to what i'm doing, but they're not taboo by any means.

mike

[H2OPWR]

What are some other cars we shouldn't mess with besides land rovers and hybrids?

The vehicles we have the most electronic trouble with are German and Brittish vehicles. Not that they are bad cars at all just finicky about electronics bad. Also very expensive to repair when they break. The ECM's are the most likely to actially burn out if something is messed up. Very easy to cause CEL's. Not that we can not mess with them just a word of caution to make sure that the wire we tap into is the correct one. The absolute worst one to mess with is Volvo. They actually have mulitple on board computers that all talk to each other and CEL problems can be a spider web.

[livehho]

Most of todays cars have no way for you to adjust the timing. Even most dealerships do not have a way to do it. Even if you have a car that can have the timing adjusted by the dealership they will not do it for you. It messes with emissions and that is against the law. If you are one of the lucky ones that have a vehicle that companies like Superchips has hacked the codes those devices cost a lot of money and usually have only programs to increase performance. Those advance the timing. The one thing that helps is that all of todays cars sense pre-ignition which is our problem. They then retard the timing to eliminate the problem. Unless you plan on putting lots and lots of HHO in your car you should not have a problem. With the amount of amps that we are limited to due to your electrical systems maximum ability you should not be able to put excessive HHO in your intake.
cool. even better. so I don't have to do nothing.

Does 3-4 LPM qualify as lots and lots of HHO ?

just wanna make sure I'm good to go :)

[H2OPWR]

cool. even better. so I don't have to do nothing.

Does 3-4 LPM qualify as lots and lots of HHO ?

just wanna make sure I'm good to go :)

That is not too much. With the V8 you have in the Discovery you could even use a little more. Just watch the amp draw. You could end up stranded with a dead battery or worse. Toast the diodes in your alternator. An alternator for your vehicle will cost plenty!

[H2OPWR]

When I finally get my house done I will be focusing on my del-SHHOl project. Right now I am planning on putting 4 120 amp hour deep cycles in the trunk with the hydrogen generator. My initial goal is 20LPM. Sounds like a lot but I will be running at 48v. I only need 60 amps and 7mmw to do 20lpm..... Phase 2 will be to add a 48v alternator to extend range/ higher amperage.

I will also be adding a plasma spark circuit and playing with water injection. Lastly I will be looking at vapor intake.....

Lots of tricks to try.... no time right now.... (or money… so buy a PWM or EFIE… hay I am starting to sound like Mr. President…..:D )

HOLY COW! 20lpm is a lot of HHO. I have a 260 amp high effeciency alternator on order so I can experiment with high amps and lots of HHO as well.

[livehho]

That is not too much. With the V8 you have in the Discovery you could even use a little more. Just watch the amp draw. You could end up stranded with a dead battery or worse. Toast the diodes in your alternator. An alternator for your vehicle will cost plenty!
Cool. Regarding the alternator I've calculated I can use up to 40 amps for the HHO generator. My car has a 100A alternator with a 70% duty cycle (70A continuous).

With the car on.. the alternator pushes 20A, when I turn the lights on they become 35A.. so I can use the remaining 35-40 amps for the HHO gen. In my bench tests I produce 3LPM at 40A so I'm just reaching the threshold.

Yeah I know, 100A alternator sucks. I'll have to look for a bigger one. In the meanwhile I guess I would have to turn the HHO cell off whenever I need to use my A/C and lights at the same time. lol

[H2OPWR]

Cool. Regarding the alternator I've calculated I can use up to 40 amps for the HHO generator. My car has a 100A alternator with a 70% duty cycle (70A continuous).

With the car on.. the alternator pushes 20A, when I turn the lights on they become 35A.. so I can use the remaining 35-40 amps for the HHO gen. In my bench tests I produce 3LPM at 40A so I'm just reaching the threshold.

Yeah I know, 100A alternator sucks. I'll have to look for a bigger one. In the meanwhile I guess I would have to turn the HHO cell off whenever I need to use my A/C and lights at the same time. lol

There is a company that can High Amp just about any alternator. If you google Ohio Generator you will find their web site. Just a warning. It is not cheap. I got a great deal because I set up our company as a distributor of their products. They are taking my Alternator from 130 amps to 260 amps. 240 amps contineous draw hot. They also increase effeciency. Less HP per amp. I want to run 100 amps or so with my cell. Trying to get high 6's MMW. That should get me 9 to 10 lpm HHO.

[cmac0351]

How does one determine the amps his alternator will put out like this? I looked in my manual and can seem to find it. I have an '02 Kia Rio.


Cool. Regarding the alternator I've calculated I can use up to 40 amps for the HHO generator. My car has a 100A alternator with a 70% duty cycle (70A continuous).

With the car on.. the alternator pushes 20A, when I turn the lights on they become 35A.. so I can use the remaining 35-40 amps for the HHO gen. In my bench tests I produce 3LPM at 40A so I'm just reaching the threshold.

Yeah I know, 100A alternator sucks. I'll have to look for a bigger one. In the meanwhile I guess I would have to turn the HHO cell off whenever I need to use my A/C and lights at the same time. lol

[livehho]

How does one determine the amps his alternator will put out like this? I looked in my manual and can seem to find it. I have an '02 Kia Rio.
you have to use a clamp meter that is rated for 50A+ DC

I got mine at Amazon (Mastech rated for 1000A DC). Not that much expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS2138R-Auto-Ranging-Clamp-Meter/dp/B0006464XW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231948020&sr=8-3

Just have to measure the thick cable going out of your alternator and that's it

[livehho]

There is a company that can High Amp just about any alternator. If you google Ohio Generator you will find their web site. Just a warning. It is not cheap. I got a great deal because I set up our company as a distributor of their products. They are taking my Alternator from 130 amps to 260 amps. 240 amps contineous draw hot. They also increase effeciency. Less HP per amp. I want to run 100 amps or so with my cell. Trying to get high 6's MMW. That should get me 9 to 10 lpm HHO.
9 to 10 LPM ?????????

You gotta be able to reach 50% fuel efficiency with that much oxyhydrogen

[cmac0351]

I have a clamp on meter up to 400 amps DC. I understand how I can measure amps being drawn, but how do I know my alternators max? What I mean is: You said you have a 100 amp alternator. How do I know how high mine could go without causing trouble?


you have to use a clamp meter that is rated for 50A+ DC

I got mine at Amazon (Mastech rated for 1000A DC). Not that much expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS2138R-Auto-Ranging-Clamp-Meter/dp/B0006464XW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231948020&sr=8-3

Just have to measure the thick cable going out of your alternator and that's it

[livehho]

I have a clamp on meter up to 400 amps DC. I understand how I can measure amps being drawn, but how do I know my alternators max? What I mean is: You said you have a 100 amp alternator. How do I know how high mine could go without causing trouble?
my bad. i misunderstood.

My alternator has a sticker on it that says 100A. Regarding the duty cycle, I called the manufacturer.

[livehho]

my bad. i misunderstood.

My alternator has a sticker on it that says 100A. Regarding the duty cycle, I called the manufacturer.
wich is Magnetti Marelli

[H2OPWR]

How does one determine the amps his alternator will put out like this? I looked in my manual and can seem to find it. I have an '02 Kia Rio.

Call the local dealers parts department. They can tell you the amperage rating of your alternator. Just remember they will quote you peak amps. No Alternator especially OEM alternators will put out peak amps for long. They heat up and your alternator output will drop usually OEM alternators are of poor quality and drop 20% or so off peak amps when hot. You need to use max output hot to determine how many amps you can spare for your cell. For a small car like yours that is stock I would not exceed 15 amps to the cell. Small economy cars do not have the extra alternator capacity like trucks and SUV's that may br used for towing, etc.