Electromagnetic HHO generator

[daddymikey1975]

guys, I found this post at another site.. read the process and tell me what you think.. I'm considering building a version of this if I can find a source for 800ft. of 22 ga. magnet wire and a simple 555 timer circuit that can oscillate at up to maybe 10KHz...
__________________________________________________ ___


AS stated:

I only put in 17.1 Mhz at 5 watts magnetic energy through a soft coil and had it wrapped around a container (plastic) that contained Sodium Hydroxide and Water, and boiled off a gallon of water in 10 minutes into hydrogen. I know it wasn't steam because I ran it through condensing coils to make sure, and it was dry coming out. It literally builds it's own pressure. I am going to build this into a chamber that hold more water and has a 900 PSI rating, so it can build it's own pressure.

5 watts. Air Core design type coil, Radio Band frequencies, and the need to build a faraday cage to prevent the FCC from finding me.

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the sodium is releasing the magnetically induced current into the water.

Liquid Electrodes. The new wave in Electrolysis....

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I just had that crystal lying around and the means to run a coil under water.

I am unsure of any other frequencies, Sine/ square/ Saw-tooth waves...Try them.

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Attach the 2 wires from the second picture to the circuit in the first picture (in AS project folder).

Fill canister with KOH and Water.

Apply power to circuit in first picture.

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5 volts at 1 amp is FIVE WATTS.

The wave is currently square wave.

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Look up "Air Core Winding" in relation to magnetic fields.

Take note that the unit in the picture is of the "Air Core" type, even though it is wrapped around a plastic tube.

Now since there is no ferrous metal within the magnetic reach of the coil, the saturation/ desaturation time sequence or the severe inductance lag of iron is missing from the equation, the potassium is the recipient of the magnetic field and thereby the magnetism induces electricity, and the potassium releases this electricity into the water.

The Potassium (you can use sodium as well) is held in aqueous suspension in the water, and thereby becomes a "Liquid Electrode" this all boils down to BASIC magnetic science, and magnetic induction.

To keep the coils from getting hot, I place a ballast resistor in series with the coil. This is important to do, otherwise the coils wil start melting the plastic and cause the water and KOH/NaOH to leak out making a mess that most people don't want to clean up.

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I use the circuit (yes the 555 circuit works dandy on it as well- and I would suggest the use of a SCR instead of the IRF540N) to get the hydrogen built up to start the engine (doesn't take long),

the remainder is powered via one of the 3 legs of the alternator. Alternators are tri-phase AC....

The end result is that using six 1.25 inch diameter tubes 10 inches in length running in series, and shunted with a large heating coil does the job nicely.

I keep running out of water too quickly.

Such a simple device...and conversion...took less than $100 USD to build, start to finish.

I am fully aware of the 555 timer limitations. Are you aware that it was posted for SIMPLIFICATION AND ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES, and DOES WORK?

It works like this: A conductive wire, when bombarded with a fluxuating magnetic field will receive magnetic inductance and convert this into electricity. Now there is no limitation on the length of wire. Now since the wire is 1 atom in length, it still receives the magnetic field and converts the energy and releases it as electricity. In the reaction:

Step 1:

KOH + Water + Magnetism= K + O + H + Water + Electricity

Step 2:

K + H2O = KOH + H

K +H20 + Magnetism (electricity) = H + H + O + K

Step 3:

Repeat step 1.

Now that the electrochemical reaction is explained, you might be able to build this on your own.

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The NaOH concentration is pushed to the 100% dilution. To determine the 100% dilution point, the NaOH is added and stirred in a large glass container and allowed to sit for 12 hours and anything more than the 100% dilution/saturation will precipitate out of solution and re-crystalize in the bottom of the container. Don't use these re-crystals. Use everything else.

KOH works the same.

SAFETY NOTE: at these concentrations, one MICRO-PINDROP on your skin is dreadfully painful. USE ALL SAFETY GEAR, including FULL FACE SHIELD, RUBBER SMOCK, and GAUNTLET STYLE RUBBER CHEMICAL GLOVES WITH SAFETY LINERS. RUBBER BOOTS. CONTAINMENT AND SPILL AREAS ARE HIGHLY RECOMMENDED AS WELL AS VENTILATION OF LARGE QUANTITIES OF FRESH FILTERED AIR.

AlaskaStar

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(from AS Project Folder):
Three layers or wraps. The tube is 1.25 inch PVC, 10 inches from end to end, now the caps overlap some of that 10 inches on each end.

The wire is 22 gauge, magnet wire.

I am building 6 more

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After more testing I found there was no difference in frequency.

The field strength is pretty much all that matters, but keep the coils cold!! They will melt the plastic tube! I am submersing the coils in coolant after assembly to keep them cold.

The higher voltage and amperage causes a stronger field and thereby a better reaction. Pulsing the field is all that is necessary to make it work. Faster than a car flasher for sure, but doesn't need to be in the MHz range either.

Gauss strength is all that really matters on this one. The magnetic flux MUST fluxuate or cycle to be effective.

any ideas??
mike

[Painless]

I am skeptical but open-minded as always. If frequency truly does not matter (if I read correctly), just run the coil from a small PWM circuit with a load resistor or other current limit, a light bulb even. I don't think the PWM would be enough to limit that kind of wire melting current.

I'm quite convinced that magnetism has its place in electrolysis.

Russ.

[H2OPWR]

Mike, I have read thet entire thread twice. I also am following the new posts. While I am keeping an open mind and for sure following it there are several things that bother me about it. First the one member that actually tried to duplicate Alaska Star's device only managed to boil water. Second, Alaska Star claims to have built this device and have a working model. He just does not have time and it is too cold to mess with it? I work 80 hours a week and are dealing with the exact same cold snap he is. I would be all over a device like he claims to have built. Seems by reading the whole post that he dodges questions and does not give direct answers to the female member from England that keeps questioning him. Maybe he just does not want to share but if that is the case why did he start the origional thread about the device? And where did the origional thread with the pic's go? Maybe it is actually there and I just can't find it. I am going to keep up on it but I am skeptical. I wish I knew where he lived. I would just drive there and check it out myself. Maybe I will join the forum and try to connect with him.

[Painless]

Can you please furnish me with a link?

If he's only using 5 watts, why does he need 22 gauge magnet wire?

Russ.

[H2OPWR]

Can you please furnish me with a link?

If he's only using 5 watts, why does he need 22 gauge magnet wire?

Russ.

Here you go. I got this from Mike.

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327

[alpha-dog]

That was interesting. Sounds to easy to build though. Something around since the eighty's that easy to build should of surfaced before now. Still I might give it a try.

[daddymikey1975]

Can you please furnish me with a link?

If he's only using 5 watts, why does he need 22 gauge magnet wire?

Russ.


Russ here's the link to his project page


http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Other_Peoples_Projects/AlaskaStar/Magnetic%20Hydrogen%20Electrolyser

I hope this helps
mike

[H2OPWR]

Here you go. I got this from Mike.

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327

I have just finished reading all of the posts from today on this thread. Weather or not this device really works there is a wealth of good information that really gets you thinking. It is worth the time to look at. Thank You Mike for finding this thread and bringing it to all our attention.

Larry

[daddymikey1975]

I have just finished reading all of the posts from today on this thread. Weather or not this device really works there is a wealth of good information that really gets you thinking. It is worth the time to look at. Thank You Mike for finding this thread and bringing it to all our attention.

Larry

Larry,
check out the other link i posted to AlaskaStar's project page. He has a couple pics there as well with some other details of how this is supposed to work. I believe he's trying to replicate, on a smaller scale, the work of the guy that stumbled across this when he 'burned' salt water with radio frequency..

Currently I'm trying to find an affordable source for some magnet wire as I would like to try to build this to see if it actually works. Does anyone have suggestions for some wire?? 22ga is fairly small isn't it??

thanks for the replies.
mike

[Painless]

Larry,
check out the other link i posted to AlaskaStar's project page. He has a couple pics there as well with some other details of how this is supposed to work. I believe he's trying to replicate, on a smaller scale, the work of the guy that stumbled across this when he 'burned' salt water with radio frequency..

Currently I'm trying to find an affordable source for some magnet wire as I would like to try to build this to see if it actually works. Does anyone have suggestions for some wire?? 22ga is fairly small isn't it??

thanks for the replies.
mike

Radio Shack stocks it.

[daddymikey1975]

Radio Shack stocks it.

not in an 800 ft. length. the folks at my local shack didnt even know what magnet wire is...

the 22 ga. is part of a 3 spool set... the 22 ga. has a short spool...

i may call another rad. shack to see

thanks
mike

[cmac0351]

http://www.sciplus.com/

They have 200 foot spools of 24 guage for $5.95 each. Just search for ''magnet wire.''


Larry,

Currently I'm trying to find an affordable source for some magnet wire as I would like to try to build this to see if it actually works. Does anyone have suggestions for some wire?? 22ga is fairly small isn't it??

thanks for the replies.
mike

[H2OPWR]

Larry,
check out the other link i posted to AlaskaStar's project page. He has a couple pics there as well with some other details of how this is supposed to work. I believe he's trying to replicate, on a smaller scale, the work of the guy that stumbled across this when he 'burned' salt water with radio frequency..

Currently I'm trying to find an affordable source for some magnet wire as I would like to try to build this to see if it actually works. Does anyone have suggestions for some wire?? 22ga is fairly small isn't it??

thanks for the replies.
mike

Another place you can try is any local place that works on electric motors. The wire that they use to re-wind electric motors is magnet wire. It is also available all over the internet. A couple of months ago I got three partial spools of 12g heavy build magnet wire left over from a large generator re-wind at a great price since each spool was too small to use for them. If you just pay retail for magnet wire it is very expensive. Here it is $18.00 per pound. I did look at Alaska Star's other link. I still am not sure if the device actually works but it seems like his other stuff is way behind what we are working on and the electronics he is selling are way expensive but the thread is packed with good technical information.

[water4gasinstaller]

Would love to see the running unit. I believe anything is possible. Keep up the good work man!

[daddymikey1975]

http://www.sciplus.com/

They have 200 foot spools of 24 guage for $5.95 each. Just search for ''magnet wire.''


if i went that route, how would I connect one spool to another?? soldering obviously, but wouild the solder and electrical tape (insulation) hinder the magnetic field??

i guess i don't know much about electromagnets HAHA

Thanks for the replies
mike

[H2OPWR]

if i went that route, how would I connect one spool to another?? soldering obviously, but wouild the solder and electrical tape (insulation) hinder the magnetic field??

i guess i don't know much about electromagnets HAHA

Thanks for the replies
mike

The partial spools I got had several hundred feet on each spool. I have not had to splice anything. I got 30 pounds of wire between the three spools. Motor shops start with huge 80 pound spools as the re-winds take thousands of feet. If you do need to splice it should be done with solder and something thin as an insulation like heat shrink over the splice. Never electrical tape it is too thick. Another couple of suggestions would be liquid electrical tape or even better an insulating varnish like "Sprayon Green Insulating Varnish". The Sprayon varnish being the best choice. Remember that all the wire next to the splice is coated so no short should occur anyway but the copper does need some protection. The splice will not affect the coil much if at all if you keep them to a minimum. The key to an effecient coil is keeping the windings as close as possible. The only difference between plain solid core wire and magnet wire the thickness of the insulation. Magnet wire uses enamel instead of plastic as the insulation to allow closer spacing.

Larry

[daddymikey1975]

thanks for clarifying that Larry.

I'll dig around tomorrow to see if i can find a local shop that rewinds motors, etc...

in the meantime i'll try to source some elsewhere and see where i can get the best deal.

thanks again
mike

[alpha-dog]

thanks for clarifying that Larry.

I'll dig around tomorrow to see if i can find a local shop that rewinds motors, etc...

in the meantime i'll try to source some elsewhere and see where i can get the best deal.

thanks again
mike

What are you going to do for your driver?

[daddymikey1975]

What are you going to do for your driver?

Well, I haven't thought that far ahead yet LOL....

I thought about getting a 555 timer and just building a basic oscillator.. it seems as though in the thread they say it doesn't matter what frequency you put through the coil... I figured I'd test that theory as well and if it got me no where then I would start looking into the MHz band with a crystal oscillator...

do you have any suggestions?

mike

[H2OPWR]

Well, I haven't thought that far ahead yet LOL....

I thought about getting a 555 timer and just building a basic oscillator.. it seems as though in the thread they say it doesn't matter what frequency you put through the coil... I figured I'd test that theory as well and if it got me no where then I would start looking into the MHz band with a crystal oscillator...

do you have any suggestions?

mike

I have read the thread over and over. It seems that an expanding and contracting magnetic field with some good strength behind it is all that is needed. Why not just try DC with a PWM at 50% duty cycle or lower to control voltage. You will have accomplished what you need and have the ability to adjust frequency's.

[daddymikey1975]

I have read the thread over and over. It seems that an expanding and contracting magnetic field with some good strength behind it is all that is needed. Why not just try DC with a PWM at 50% duty cycle or lower to control voltage. You will have accomplished what you need and have the ability to adjust frequency's.

that would be a great idea, however money is very limited and I don't have a PWM nor the cash to build one.

I think I can scrounge up some dough to build a 555 timer circuit though.

mike

[alpha-dog]

I have read the thread over and over. It seems that an expanding and contracting magnetic field with some good strength behind it is all that is needed. Why not just try DC with a PWM at 50% duty cycle or lower to control voltage. You will have accomplished what you need and have the ability to adjust frequency's.

You would need to test that and see if it works, but an inverter would be better. I saw one for sell for about $20.00 ( 10 amp ) and it needed a center tapped inductor. Maybe make your magnetic cell a center tapped inductor instead of one winding. It was designed for 60hz but you can change the RC time.

[Painless]

that would be a great idea, however money is very limited and I don't have a PWM nor the cash to build one.

I think I can scrounge up some dough to build a 555 timer circuit though.

mike

Radio Shack stocks the 555 timers and other bits and bobs real cheap, I have a 555 timer circuit I built on some breadboard a couple of months ago but I couldn't get it to work :(

[H2OPWR]

You would need to test that and see if it works, but an inverter would be better. I saw one for sell for about $20.00 ( 10 amp ) and it needed a center tapped inductor. Maybe make your magnetic cell a center tapped inductor instead of one winding. It was designed for 60hz but you can change the RC time.

A couple of months ago I made a home made transformer to step down 12 volts 5 to 1. I powered it with a PWM and it worked great until the reverse oscillations fried my PWM (just needed diodes). The pulsing DC acted just like AC on the transformer which is the same principal that the coil cell works on. I have the magnet wire as well as PWM's and some good diodes now. I think as soon as I get time the experiment has enough merit to try. God knows I have tried enough experiments what is wrong with another.

[alpha-dog]

A couple of months ago I made a home made transformer to step down 12 volts 5 to 1. I powered it with a PWM and it worked great until the reverse oscillations fried my PWM (just needed diodes). The pulsing DC acted just like AC on the transformer which is the same principal that the coil cell works on. I have the magnet wire as well as PWM's and some good diodes now. I think as soon as I get time the experiment has enough merit to try. God knows I have tried enough experiments what is wrong with another.

I was just talking to one of the engineers working here about using that pwm on the magnetic HHO generator. He said it wouldn't work unless we put a capacitor in parallel with it. Now you can make a 100pf capacitor out of two switch plates and use .04 shower pan liner in the middle of them. That'll make a tank circuit out of it. Maybe you can tweak the frequency to that value everyone was talking about a couple of weeks ago.

[H2OPWR]

I was just talking to one of the engineers working here about using that pwm on the magnetic HHO generator. He said it wouldn't work unless we put a capacitor in parallel with it. Now you can make a 100pf capacitor out of two switch plates and use .04 shower pan liner in the middle of them. That'll make a tank circuit out of it. Maybe you can tweak the frequency to that value everyone was talking about a couple of weeks ago.

Great information. I know little about capacitor's. I seem always to try first usually have some problems, spend more money, have fewer problems until finally get something working but always end up spending triple the money and time. Some advice on how to add a capacitor to the circut, which size would work better etc and I will make a trip to the local electronics and purchase one. Any help to try and get it right the first time would be greatly appreciated. The thing I am shortest on is time. I always seem to come up with everything but the time somehow.

Larry

[alpha-dog]

I would try and make a capacitor first. I've done it here using two SS switch plates w/o light switch hole ( the type being used in the switch plate HHO generators ). All I did was put a piece of .040 shower pan liner in between them and held together with nylon screws. If you use something thiner you will increase capacitance, maybe .010 neopreme insulator. Consider breakdown current when doing this. The .040 shower pan liner gives a 100 pf value. I tried some teflon tape here and got the value up to 1000pf. 8x8 plates that you are using in your HHO generator with the gasket in between will make a good capacitor also. HHO generators are capacitors in series when the water is removed ( air dialectric ). In another thread I measured an HHO generator ( 8x8 plates ) on a meter and it read 975uf. You could use an HHO generator for a capacitor just leave it dry( +NNNN- ). Just connect your magnetic HHO generator to the ( + ) and ( - ) terminals and connect your pwm like you would in your HHO generator.

[H2OPWR]

I would try and make a capacitor first. I've done it here using two SS switch plates w/o light switch hole ( the type being used in the switch plate HHO generators ). All I did was put a piece of .040 shower pan liner in between them and held together with nylon screws. If you use something thiner you will increase capacitance, maybe .010 neopreme insulator. Consider breakdown current when doing this. The .040 shower pan liner gives a 100 pf value. I tried some teflon tape here and got the value up to 1000pf. 8x8 plates that you are using in your HHO generator with the gasket in between will make a good capacitor also. HHO generators are capacitors in series when the water is removed ( air dialectric ). In another thread I measured an HHO generator ( 8x8 plates ) on a meter and it read 975uf. You could use an HHO generator for a capacitor just leave it dry( +NNNN- ). Just connect your magnetic HHO generator to the ( + ) and ( - ) terminals and connect your pwm like you would in your HHO generator.

Sounds very simple. I will give it a try as soon as I am done with this project. Hopefully soon.

Thanks for the advice.
Larry

[alpha-dog]

this might help

www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_4/15.html

[H2OPWR]

this might help

www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_6/chpt_4/15.html

Thanks. Got it. Can not wait to try this.

[daddymikey1975]

Radio Shack stocks the 555 timers and other bits and bobs real cheap, I have a 555 timer circuit I built on some breadboard a couple of months ago but I couldn't get it to work :(

I've made these before in high school and they worked like a champ but that was 15 years ago LOL...

I have resistors and diodes and things at work already for remote starts, I'll just have to get the 555, a small hunk of breadboard and probably a couple capacitors and a variable resistor to make it work... I'm gonna look into a circuit today at lunch then probably stop by the 'shack tonight and see about parts.

I did email a coiple companies here in town to see about magnet wire. I'm awaiting a response from them. If all else fails maybe I can get some from ebay or the other sources mentioned.

I'll keep everyone posted.
mike

[daddymikey1975]

EDIT:

I'd like everyone's input on a couple things...

If i'm going to build this (which I am just for sheer curiosity) what are some different scenarios that we'd ALL like to see to determine validity?? I'm not a scientific type by any means.. I'll usually find something, build it and if it works, run with it.. i may play with different configurations, etc.. but with a very limited budget, unfortunately I cannot afford to keep spending and spending on experiments..

So if I know ahead of time what diferent types of setups and configs and measurements and such I'll be needing to be mindful of ahead of time, it'll better help me to plan the cost for the project.

AND winding wire around some PVC is a very time consuming process HAHA... as well as unwinding (to save and re-use the wire for the next configuration)

so..all brainstorms are welcome while i'm awaiting a source for wire.... (I should know somehting by monday)

electrical engineers also I'm in need of an idea to operate this with a PWM... think it'll be possible? as opposed to just a 555 timer circuit ?? I may just try both a PWM and then a 555 just to see if frequency plays any role.

Also anything to be cautious of regarding the electronics and using such an intense coil... backwards flowing current (voltage) etc.. anything to help keep 'failures' to a minimum (and I mean magic smoke failures, not idea failures)

I understand that we can't plan for everything but knowledge from many minds together may help open up just a few more..

mike

[Painless]

Mike,

You should also include a MOSFET in your 555 circuit, would be annoying if you fried the chip by mistake.

Russ.

[daddymikey1975]

Mike,

You should also include a MOSFET in your 555 circuit, would be annoying if you fried the chip by mistake.

Russ.

good idea... i'll keep that in mind...

thanks
mike

[alpha-dog]

I made a little magnetic cell today using 14 gauge magnetic wire and 2 inch pvc pipe. It measureas 145uh. I'll have to put a 8x8 ss plate capacitor together and see if it resonates and then see if it produces brown gas.

[daddymikey1975]

I made a little magnetic cell today using 14 gauge magnetic wire and 2 inch pvc pipe. It measureas 145uh. I'll have to put a 8x8 ss plate capacitor together and see if it resonates and then see if it produces brown gas.

What I'm working on is the magnet wire wrapped around the PVC 3 layers deep (for gauss strength).

Then making a 'saturated' solution of NaOH in Distilled water and filling the PVC tube... pulsing the coil around 1KHz and hoping for HHO production... Seems simple enough in theory, but I'm wanting to see if it works as posted in the thread from the first page.

Keep us posted of your results.
mike

[H2OPWR]

I would try and make a capacitor first. I've done it here using two SS switch plates w/o light switch hole ( the type being used in the switch plate HHO generators ). All I did was put a piece of .040 shower pan liner in between them and held together with nylon screws. If you use something thiner you will increase capacitance, maybe .010 neopreme insulator. Consider breakdown current when doing this. The .040 shower pan liner gives a 100 pf value. I tried some teflon tape here and got the value up to 1000pf. 8x8 plates that you are using in your HHO generator with the gasket in between will make a good capacitor also. HHO generators are capacitors in series when the water is removed ( air dialectric ). In another thread I measured an HHO generator ( 8x8 plates ) on a meter and it read 975uf. You could use an HHO generator for a capacitor just leave it dry( +NNNN- ). Just connect your magnetic HHO generator to the ( + ) and ( - ) terminals and connect your pwm like you would in your HHO generator.

Alpha-dog,
I obtained a couple capacitors today as I did not want to use the stainless plates to make one. I just want to make sure you think that they will be of sufficient size. I bought the largest the local electronics outlet had. We do not have much of a selection here. They are rated at 50 volts 3300uf which i beleive is microFarad's. If one will not be of sufficient size to do the job I bought 2 (all they had) and could I hook them in parallel and have total capaticance of 6600uf. I get around electronics ok usually with some help from my friend but he is out of town. I have worked with alot of the stuff we use and gotten a good understanding of it but this will be my first time using capacitors.

Thanks in advance.

Larry

[alpha-dog]

Alpha-dog,
I obtained a couple capacitors today as I did not want to use the stainless plates to make one. I just want to make sure you think that they will be of sufficient size. I bought the largest the local electronics outlet had. We do not have much of a selection here. They are rated at 50 volts 3300uf which i beleive is microFarad's. If one will not be of sufficient size to do the job I bought 2 (all they had) and could I hook them in parallel and have total capaticance of 6600uf. I get around electronics ok usually with some help from my friend but he is out of town. I have worked with alot of the stuff we use and gotten a good understanding of it but this will be my first time using capacitors.

Thanks in advance.

Larry


Yea they are suppose to add like resistors in series.Think about plate size, in parallel you have twice as much plate. Did you see the formula for frequency at resonance in the thread I gave you. The square root of L * C, then * 2pi and divide that into 1. I'm thinking that one 8x8 capacitor at about 90 uf and my inductor cell at 145 uh should resonate at 1.3 khz. If it works we'll have revolutionized HHO.
If you have a large diode, I'm going to put a 10 amp diode between the battery and tank circuit.

[daddymikey1975]

Mike,

You should also include a MOSFET in your 555 circuit, would be annoying if you fried the chip by mistake.

Russ.

Larry recommended that I use the 555 to run the freq. part of a PWM... I think i'll do this to drive the coil

mike

[daddymikey1975]

Yea they are suppose to add like resistors in series.Think about plate size, in parallel you have twice s much plate. Did you see the formula for frequency ant resonance in the thread I gave you. The square root of L * C, then * 2pi and divide that into 1. I'm thinking that one 8x8 capacitor at about 90 uf and my inductor cell at 145 uh should resonate at 1.3 khz. If it works we'll have revolutionized HHO.

once I get my coil wrapped around my PVC i'll see if i can measure the inductance and i'll let YOU figure out the resonant frequency for me HAHA... i'm good at math, but that formula gave me a headache LOL...

[alpha-dog]

once I get my coil wrapped around my PVC i'll see if i can measure the inductance and i'll let YOU figure out the resonant frequency for me HAHA... i'm good at math, but that formula gave me a headache LOL...

It gave me a headache too! That's why I went to an online square root calculator.

[H2OPWR]

Yea they are suppose to add like resistors in series.Think about plate size, in parallel you have twice s much plate. Did you see the formula for frequency ant resonance in the thread I gave you. The square root of L * C, then * 2pi and divide that into 1. I'm thinking that one 8x8 capacitor at about 90 uf and my inductor cell at 145 uh should resonate at 1.3 khz. If it works we'll have revolutionized HHO.
If you have a large diode, I'm going to put a 10 amp diode between the battery and tank cicuit.

Yes I have plenty of diodes. T am using 45 amps worth of siodes for this test.

[Michaeljp86]

I found some plans on pretty much the same thing and got nothing, no bubbles at all. Only difference was the size and amount of wire.

[daddymikey1975]

I found some plans on pretty much the same thing and got nothing, no bubbles at all. Only difference was the size and amount of wire.

would you mind posting a link to the plans you're speaking of ?

thanks
mike

[alpha-dog]

You know if this does work we would probably be better off putting our pvc tube inside a iron water pipe and wrapping our coil around that.

[daddymikey1975]

You know if this does work we would probably be better off putting our pvc tube inside a iron water pipe and wrapping our coil around that.

now that's a good idea too.

[alpha-dog]

not in an 800 ft. length. the folks at my local shack didnt even know what magnet wire is...

the 22 ga. is part of a 3 spool set... the 22 ga. has a short spool...

i may call another rad. shack to see

thanks
mike

Have a look at amazon.com. They have 10lb spools of 24, 20 and 17 AWG magnetic wire for about $130.00. Sounds like a lot of money but your talking maybe 4000 ft of the 20 AWG.

[daddymikey1975]

thats way outta my budget.. money's really tight right now.. I've got a couple hundred feet coming and 555 timers, PWM and some other things.. i should be able to pull this off with a couple hundred feet of some 18 gauge wire... we'll have to see. I should be able to begin building later this week.

[alpha-dog]

I hope your right. I used 18 AWG wire on mine, but it was 145 uh. I was reading back it the ou forums and it seem like we'll need to be in the mili henry range, maybe 3 or 4 mh.

[alpha-dog]

thats way outta my budget.. money's really tight right now.. I've got a couple hundred feet coming and 555 timers, PWM and some other things.. i should be able to pull this off with a couple hundred feet of some 18 gauge wire... we'll have to see. I should be able to begin building later this week.

Maybe you could take apart an old motor or alternator.

[jriggs_18]

I hate to be the pessimist here, but I think that AlaskasStar and his electromag gen are a waste. Ive read alot about this guy and I dont think that its anything worthwhile. Im sorry I want to see OU as much as anybody, but im not buying it....:(

With that said, I wish you guys the best of luck on your replications and if something turns out to be legitimate i will gladly eat my words...

[alpha-dog]

I hate to be the pessimist here, but I think that AlaskasStar and his electromag gen are a waste. Ive read alot about this guy and I dont think that its anything worthwhile. Im sorry I want to see OU as much as anybody, but im not buying it....:(

With that said, I wish you guys the best of luck on your replications and if something turns out to be legitimate i will gladly eat my words...

I don't think anyone is making a big investment. There is this lady however, who seems very well educated. She has been discussing this cell and it gives me a little hope that this might work.

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327

[Michaeljp86]

would you mind posting a link to the plans you're speaking of ?

thanks
mike

I dont think the website is around anymore, this was maybe a year ago now that I tried it. I wouldnt mind trying this guys idea but its alot of money to spend on something thats bogus.

I seen a big spool of some copper wire about the size of a hair at a surplus store. I may see if I can get it but hes high priced on most electrical stuff.

[daddymikey1975]

I hate to be the pessimist here, but I think that AlaskasStar and his electromag gen are a waste. Ive read alot about this guy and I dont think that its anything worthwhile. Im sorry I want to see OU as much as anybody, but im not buying it....:(

With that said, I wish you guys the best of luck on your replications and if something turns out to be legitimate i will gladly eat my words...

jriggs.. i'm just as pessimistic as the next guy - trust me - however here's the thing.. I don't believe that AlaskaStar has claimed OU with this PVC setup...(and PLEASE let's not get into that debate again LOL )

i'm not pursuing OU by trying this by any means...all i'm looking for is yet another way or a different way to get HHO production.

If this can even give us 1/2 LPM with only 5 watts as input imagine the possibilities.. no more stainless plates to worry about, no gaskets, etc.. the 'relief' would be astounding IMO....

as a side note, I definitely do not have the financial resources to dump huge amounts of money chasing the PVC generator dream...i'm simply going to build it, test it, re configure it with whatever materials I'll have from the beginning and we'll get input from the members here on possible tests, other configurations, etc.. then it'll work or die.. either way, we'll know.

and no, no one's making a huge investment here...

as an update, I have the following materials coming.. I'm awaiting the post man for shipping...

I have a PWM
555 timer chips
ammeter
couple trim pots (to comvert the PWM to be freq. adjustable)
200 feet of 18 gauge wire (it was available)
as well as a few other things...

this should be enough to try and replicate the experiment...

the weak link would be the wire, so if the first round of testing doesn't go well, i'll source what alaska star used (exactly)... the larger wire should help with keeping the coil assembly cooler... but time will tell and we'll see...

mike

[alpha-dog]

jriggs.. i'm just as pessimistic as the next guy - trust me - however here's the thing.. I don't believe that AlaskaStar has claimed OU with this PVC setup...(and PLEASE let's not get into that debate again LOL )

i'm not pursuing OU by trying this by any means...all i'm looking for is yet another way or a different way to get HHO production.

If this can even give us 1/2 LPM with only 5 watts as input imagine the possibilities.. no more stainless plates to worry about, no gaskets, etc.. the 'relief' would be astounding IMO....

as a side note, I definitely do not have the financial resources to dump huge amounts of money chasing the PVC generator dream...i'm simply going to build it, test it, re configure it with whatever materials I'll have from the beginning and we'll get input from the members here on possible tests, other configurations, etc.. then it'll work or die.. either way, we'll know.

and no, no one's making a huge investment here...

as an update, I have the following materials coming.. I'm awaiting the post man for shipping...

I have a PWM
555 timer chips
ammeter
couple trim pots (to comvert the PWM to be freq. adjustable)
200 feet of 18 gauge wire (it was available)
as well as a few other things...

this should be enough to try and replicate the experiment...

the weak link would be the wire, so if the first round of testing doesn't go well, i'll source what alaska star used (exactly)... the larger wire should help with keeping the coil assembly cooler... but time will tell and we'll see...

mike

I do believe you'll need enough wire to make a 3~4mh inductor. Not what I did at 145uh.

[alpha-dog]

This might give us some new ideas

http://www.rexresearch.com/sullivan/sullivan.htm

[Q-Hack!]

This might give us some new ideas

http://www.rexresearch.com/sullivan/sullivan.htm

Looks like someone patented the square wave... :eek:

[alpha-dog]

Looks like someone patented the square wave... :eek:

You didn't read it

[daddymikey1975]

This might give us some new ideas

http://www.rexresearch.com/sullivan/sullivan.htm

I still can't wrap my mind around how the guy figures current flows in 2 directions...or how this is supposed to increase production...

current flows from - to + and takes the least resistant path to get there.... by having the + and - connections on both sides 'open' I see the current flowing from the - (on either end) directly to the + electrodes inside his containers.. all he's doing is placing his ammeters 'inside' the circuit to demonstrate basic electronics theory.. none of this will increase production at all... (IMO)

I can see how he 'claims' to reverse current flow while keeping the - and + contact points the same, but to me it seems as if it's a magic trick.. he needs to put his ammeter(s) inline with the power supply.

Current flow doesn't matter for production... inside a cell it's still going to go through the electrolyte from - to + and who cares which direction it goes along a piece of wire.

it seems as if he's just created a square wave, or using a square wave to pulse the electrodes in the cells..

(just my .02)
mike

[daddymikey1975]

I do believe you'll need enough wire to make a 3~4mh inductor. Not what I did at 145uh.

since the length of wire that I've got coming is shorter than what alaska star is using, I'm thinking of making the coil shorter (not 10") and instead of making it 3 layers thick, i'm gonna shoot for 2" thick.. (still not sure how many henries I'll have..)

if anyone is good at math, I'm gonna use standard schedule 40 1" inside diameter PVC (to make the air core smaller thereby increasing the magnetic field) and probably 5 - 6" in length (between the glue on caps)

can any math geniuses figure how many turns that'll be with 200 feet of wire and give a rough guess on the Henries ?? HAHA.. there's no way I could..

my multimeter may have a setting to measure inductance.. I'll have to look when I go to work today.

mike

[Painless]

since the length of wire that I've got coming is shorter than what alaska star is using, I'm thinking of making the coil shorter (not 10") and instead of making it 3 layers thick, i'm gonna shoot for 2" thick.. (still not sure how many henries I'll have..)

if anyone is good at math, I'm gonna use standard schedule 40 1" inside diameter PVC (to make the air core smaller thereby increasing the magnetic field) and probably 5 - 6" in length (between the glue on caps)

can any math geniuses figure how many turns that'll be with 200 feet of wire and give a rough guess on the Henries ?? HAHA.. there's no way I could..

my multimeter may have a setting to measure inductance.. I'll have to look when I go to work today.

mike

I'm no math genius but:

If your PVC is 1" diameter, then, 1" x PI = 3.14" circumference. 200 (ft) x 12 (inches) = 2400" divided by 3.14 = 764.33 turns (approximately, I used 3.14 for PI which goes on forever if you don't round it!).

Happy Winding!

Russ.

[Q-Hack!]

You didn't read it

Actually I did, I was just trying to be funny... guess I failed.

[daddymikey1975]

The pipe is 1" I.D. so closer to 1.5 OD. Factor in the avarage thickness of the winding and it would be safe to use 1.6 x 3.14 = 5.024 ... 2400/5.495 = 478


so can we calculate the inductance knowing this?

i suppose that's what i was getting at HAHA.. and you guys payed way more attention in geometry and math than I did...

mike

[alpha-dog]

since the length of wire that I've got coming is shorter than what alaska star is using, I'm thinking of making the coil shorter (not 10") and instead of making it 3 layers thick, i'm gonna shoot for 2" thick.. (still not sure how many henries I'll have..)

if anyone is good at math, I'm gonna use standard schedule 40 1" inside diameter PVC (to make the air core smaller thereby increasing the magnetic field) and probably 5 - 6" in length (between the glue on caps)

can any math geniuses figure how many turns that'll be with 200 feet of wire and give a rough guess on the Henries ?? HAHA.. there's no way I could..

my multimeter may have a setting to measure inductance.. I'll have to look when I go to work today.

mike

Have you given any thought to making a donut shape primary windings, maybe two of them 3/4 inch wide and maybe 10 layers thick. That should give better magnetism. And then the electrolyte could be the secondary. I was thinking of encapsulating an iron bar and putting that in the middle of the tube. Kinda like a iron core transformer.

[alpha-dog]

Well, I haven't thought that far ahead yet LOL....

I thought about getting a 555 timer and just building a basic oscillator.. it seems as though in the thread they say it doesn't matter what frequency you put through the coil... I figured I'd test that theory as well and if it got me no where then I would start looking into the MHz band with a crystal oscillator...

do you have any suggestions?

mike

What I'm doing is using the ZFF PCB board I got from Shane. It's a driver, and I'm going to use a P-Channel Mosfet instead of the N-Channel it calls for. This theoretically will work of the "+" side giving me a pulse rather than switching off the ground. The board from Shane uses a ( loosely called ) relaxation oscillator and a pulse forming network as well as a current sense network. It should work great.

[alpha-dog]

Something else I want to mention is if the cell works but still uses to much amps. Bearing in mind that you use the P-Channel fet and the driver board. It may be possible to us SBC current by connecting an N-Channel Fet to the ground also. Driving both with the driver board.

[H2OPWR]

Have you given any thought to making a donut shape primary windings, maybe two of them 3/4 inch wide and maybe 10 layers thick. That should give better magnetism. And then the electrolyte could be the secondary. I was thinking of encapsulating an iron bar and putting that in the middle of the tube. Kinda like a iron core transformer.

Alpha, I have 6 2000 turn epoxy coated torroid coils (doughnut shaped). I got all excited a year ago after seeing the plans for the open bath design that is 2 stainless tubes in a 4" PVC pipe. Also the design calls for a torroid coil to sit above the stainless tubes. My PWM's will not operate them because they are too high a frequency to charge them. I need to slow down a PWM to under 20hz (which is easy to do) so they have time to charge. If the PCV pipe was small enough to fit in the center do you think they may work. They were expensive and are just gathering dust so far. Before I could put the cell together using them I moved to the dry cell design.

[alpha-dog]

Alpha, I have 6 2000 turn epoxy coated torroid coils (doughnut shaped). I got all excited a year ago after seeing the plans for the open bath design that is 2 stainless tubes in a 4" PVC pipe. Also the design calls for a torroid coil to sit above the stainless tubes. My PWM's will not operate them because they are too high a frequency to charge them. I need to slow down a PWM to under 20hz (which is easy to do) so they have time to charge. If the PCV pipe was small enough to fit in the center do you think they may work. They were expensive and are just gathering dust so far. Before I could put the cell together using them I moved to the dry cell design.

Sounds like they would work. Thats what I'm building. 3/4 inch PVC with a 3/8 pvc piece in the center filled with iron. Iron for the iron core. The electrolyte becomes the secondary and two donut shaped inductors slide over the 3/4 inch PVC for the primaries. I want to post what I think should work for the pulse generator also ( ZFF pwm modified with P-channel mosfet ).


1075


That should switch the positive voltage just like the pwm's switch out the ground ( in theory ).

[alpha-dog]

got this off another forum

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-m01-magnetic.htm

[daddymikey1975]

Guys...
been busy all week with cold weather ( -15F and -35F wind chills) causing frozen pipes, had family this weekend, furnace at work went out.. been a nasty week...

here's a picture of the test panel that I made the other day at work. This will allow me to quickly configure and re-configure the PWM, ammeter, voltage and freq. readings etc.

I am now working on finishing modding the PWM to adjust freq. (should be complete today or tomorrow) and I need to remove the pot from the PWM and add some wire so I can remote mount it in the hole in the ABS plastic.

I should be winding my coil by tuesday (I hope HAHA..)

mike

[H2OPWR]

Guys...
been busy all week with cold weather ( -15F and -35F wind chills) causing frozen pipes, had family this weekend, furnace at work went out.. been a nasty week...

here's a picture of the test panel that I made the other day at work. This will allow me to quickly configure and re-configure the PWM, ammeter, voltage and freq. readings etc.

I am now working on finishing modding the PWM to adjust freq. (should be complete today or tomorrow) and I need to remove the pot from the PWM and add some wire so I can remote mount it in the hole in the ABS plastic.

I should be winding my coil by tuesday (I hope HAHA..)

mike

Mike, I see you got the weather I sent you. We dealt with that for weeks. Now you have it. Please feel free to keep it a while. It is 40's in Alaska.

[daddymikey1975]

thanks for the sub zero weather. I was able to make snow the other morning for my children. They didn't believe me and they lost the bet. now they have to do their chores AND mine for a week HAHA.. who knew that boiling water at -15F could be so much fun :D

[H2OPWR]

thanks for the sub zero weather. I was able to make snow the other morning for my children. They didn't believe me and they lost the bet. now they have to do their chores AND mine for a week HAHA.. who knew that boiling water at -15F could be so much fun :D

Been there done that many times. It is amazing to see.

[Maxime]

Hi, it's 5 years later i don't know if anyone is active there but i'd like to know if the original post from the first post still exists and i'd like to have the source please.

Secondo, i'd like to know if it worked, how it turned, how many LPM were boiling out of there.

thanks.