How I really gained MPG. From 28 to 33 MPG

[BoyntonStu]

How I really gained MPG. From 28 to 33 MPG

Lyall Bailey convinced me to try his idea.

Modern cars use a computer (ECU) to keep the air/fuel ratio at a constant 14.7 to 1.

As all airplane pilots know, air density altitude affect the power of airplane engines.

You do not take off from mile high Denver with as much lift or power as you would at sea level.

In your car the MAP sensor measures the air density and it adjusts the fuel accordingly.

If you drive in Denver, the air intake will be less and the ECU will cut back on the gas.

No, it does not lean out the engine.

The air/fuel ratio remains at 14.7:1.

I blocked off about 40% of my air intake after the air filter using duct tape.

I removed one lead from the battery and I shorted it to the other lead to reset the ECU.

I have driven my car for 7 years and I never saw more than 28 MPG.

For the last 3 tanks the car has averaged 33 MPG!

Thank you Lyall!

BoyntonStu

[Q-Hack!]

This method works well as long as the power that you are robbing from yourself is considered excess. If you have a small 4 cylinder engine and live in steep hill country, then you may want that power. Other than that the theory is sound.

[jriggs_18]

So you restricted airflow and saw an increase in MPG? very interesting

As Q mentioned there would definitely had to be a power decrease but if you dont need it then you dont miss it. I work in heavy duty diesels and a restriction in airflow will absolutely cause a decrease in mpgs. Just goes to show how different applications can require different alterations to see mpg improvements

What kind of engine?
Is it a passenger car? or do you tow?
What did you see with hho?

[Q-Hack!]

Another point to be made about this technique...

It works best for those living at sea level. If you live in Denver, you probably don't want to try it... The air there is already too thin.

[Painless]

Out here on the eastern shore of MD we are very much at sea level. I tried a 25% restriction on my Ram, however, all I gained was a lumpy idle.

Seems the newer vehicles might be able to outsmart this technique.

Russ.

[Q-Hack!]

Out here on the eastern shore of MD we are very much at sea level. I tried a 25% restriction on my Ram, however, all I gained was a lumpy idle.

Seems the newer vehicles might be able to outsmart this technique.

Russ.

How did you reset the ECU on your Dodge? I believe that it requires one to disconnect the battery and then hold the brake pedal down to discharge the capacitors in the ECU.

[H2OPWR]

How did you reset the ECU on your Dodge? I believe that it requires one to disconnect the battery and then hold the brake pedal down to discharge the capacitors in the ECU.

It seems to be a common beleif that disconnecting the battery cables will re set am ECU. I have had several conversations with the mechanics here at work. They do say that the codes will re set and some of the memory will be cleared but the only way to get your ECU to start learning over completely is to have a dealership electronically re set it with a tool they call a consult which is propritary to each manufacturer. Even the independent garages do not have access to completely make the ECU start over. Only a dealership has access to the entire memory. The good news is they will do it and it is very inexpensive as it only takes them a few minutes to do it.

[BoyntonStu]

It seems to be a common beleif that disconnecting the battery cables will re set am ECU. I have had several conversations with the mechanics here at work. They do say that the codes will re set and some of the memory will be cleared but the only way to get your ECU to start learning over completely is to have a dealership electronically re set it with a tool they call a consult which is propritary to each manufacturer. Even the independent garages do not have access to completely make the ECU start over. Only a dealership has access to the entire memory. The good news is they will do it and it is very inexpensive as it only takes them a few minutes to do it.

Save a dollar.

Disconnect one battery cable and short it to the other.

Reset, DONE!

Worked for Lyall Bailey and me.

BoyntonStu

P.S. I am working on a choke type butterfly valve that I can diddle manually and which will open automatically at full throttle.

[Q-Hack!]

Save a dollar.

P.S. I am working on a choke type butterfly valve that I can diddle manually and which will open automatically at full throttle.

This might be the best option... ECUs are designed to change the fuel as you drive over mountains. Seems that you could just choke off the air flow after you have started the engine and the ECU would do the rest.

mmm... may have to play with this...

[H2OPWR]

Save a dollar.

Disconnect one battery cable and short it to the other.

Reset, DONE!

Worked for Lyall Bailey and me.

BoyntonStu

P.S. I am working on a choke type butterfly valve that I can diddle manually and which will open automatically at full throttle.

Stu, I know that you are an intelligent man with lots of knowledge but the automotive field is something I have much knowledge about. I have been in upper management in the industry for 23 years. 50 master automotive techs work at the dealerships that I manage. I have had numerous in debth conversations with the best of the best trying to figure this whole ECU thing out. I do know for a fact that no matter what you do with your battery cables or brake pedal or anything else that it does clear some of the stored memory. It clears most stored codes but with todays late model vehicles it will without a doubt NOT re-set your ECU back to the origional factory learning mode. The ECU will retain part of the stored information. The aftermarket industry has only the information that is mandated by the Federal Clean Air Act that brought about all vehicles having compatable EBD2 ports in 1996. I know that it is common beleif that the ECU can be totally re-set without the proper equipment but the fact is that it can not. In order for your vehicle to start learning over from the beginning the ECU must be properly re-set with equipment that only the manufacturers provide to autherized dealerships. The manufacturers are so guarded with this information that most of the consults that are used for these procedures have to be sinked up daily or they just stop working to prevent theft of the programs. I do not want to get into a debate over this but I know this to be factual.

[Painless]

How did you reset the ECU on your Dodge? I believe that it requires one to disconnect the battery and then hold the brake pedal down to discharge the capacitors in the ECU.

The Dodge ECU can be reset by removing the ECU fuse and turning placing the key in the run position (don't start) for 30 seconds, or so I have been lead to believe!

[mytoyotasucks]

Stu, I know that you are an intelligent man with lots of knowledge but the automotive field is something I have much knowledge about. I have been in upper management in the industry for 23 years. 50 master automotive techs work at the dealerships that I manage. I have had numerous in debth conversations with the best of the best trying to figure this whole ECU thing out. I do know for a fact that no matter what you do with your battery cables or brake pedal or anything else that it does clear some of the stored memory. It clears most stored codes but with todays late model vehicles it will without a doubt NOT re-set your ECU back to the origional factory learning mode. The ECU will retain part of the stored information. The aftermarket industry has only the information that is mandated by the Federal Clean Air Act that brought about all vehicles having compatable EBD2 ports in 1996. I know that it is common beleif that the ECU can be totally re-set without the proper equipment but the fact is that it can not. In order for your vehicle to start learning over from the beginning the ECU must be properly re-set with equipment that only the manufacturers provide to autherized dealerships. The manufacturers are so guarded with this information that most of the consults that are used for these procedures have to be sinked up daily or they just stop working to prevent theft of the programs. I do not want to get into a debate over this but I know this to be factual.

How about the earlier FI cars, I have a 83 and 89 Caddy Deville's, and they are earlier computer types.

[BoyntonStu]

Stu, I know that you are an intelligent man with lots of knowledge but the automotive field is something I have much knowledge about. I have been in upper management in the industry for 23 years. 50 master automotive techs work at the dealerships that I manage. I have had numerous in debth conversations with the best of the best trying to figure this whole ECU thing out. I do know for a fact that no matter what you do with your battery cables or brake pedal or anything else that it does clear some of the stored memory. It clears most stored codes but with todays late model vehicles it will without a doubt NOT re-set your ECU back to the origional factory learning mode. The ECU will retain part of the stored information. The aftermarket industry has only the information that is mandated by the Federal Clean Air Act that brought about all vehicles having compatable EBD2 ports in 1996. I know that it is common beleif that the ECU can be totally re-set without the proper equipment but the fact is that it can not. In order for your vehicle to start learning over from the beginning the ECU must be properly re-set with equipment that only the manufacturers provide to autherized dealerships. The manufacturers are so guarded with this information that most of the consults that are used for these procedures have to be sinked up daily or they just stop working to prevent theft of the programs. I do not want to get into a debate over this but I know this to be factual.

There is nothing wrong with the factory learning curve or having some stored data.

After some new data is gathered with the restricted air, the ECU will think that you moved to Denver.

How else would a modern ECU adjust to the new driving altitude?

BoyntonStu

[H2OPWR]

How about the earlier FI cars, I have a 83 and 89 Caddy Deville's, and they are earlier computer types.

We do not have any domestic franchises but I checked with our best domestic tech and he said. Before OBD2 the ECU's were not nearly as sofisticated as today. They did not store anywhere as much data and made way fewer comparisons. They also did not have nearly the ability to learn things such as driving styles, throttle position reletive to vehicle speed etc. They should all but completely clear just unhooking the battery cables and touching them together but unless you are clearing a code it should not be necessary to do so. They should also take HHO and mod's much easier. The reason to re-set today's ECU's is that with the leaning out of the fuel trims and adding HHO you get the same power out of less gasoline. Therefore less throttle at speeds and acceleration. As the ECU adapts to the new learning curve it thinks you are just a very careful driver and adapts to what it thinks your driving style is. As we all know kifferent driving styles get different fuel economy's.

[BoyntonStu]

We do not have any domestic franchises but I checked with our best domestic tech and he said. Before OBD2 the ECU's were not nearly as sofisticated as today. They did not store anywhere as much data and made way fewer comparisons. They also did not have nearly the ability to learn things such as driving styles, throttle position reletive to vehicle speed etc. They should all but completely clear just unhooking the battery cables and touching them together but unless you are clearing a code it should not be necessary to do so. They should also take HHO and mod's much easier. The reason to re-set today's ECU's is that with the leaning out of the fuel trims and adding HHO you get the same power out of less gasoline. Therefore less throttle at speeds and acceleration. As the ECU adapts to the new learning curve it thinks you are just a very careful driver and adapts to what it thinks your driving style is. As we all know kifferent driving styles get different fuel economy's.


As the ECU adapts to the new learning curve it thinks you are just a very careful driver and adapts to what it thinks your driving style is.

True.

However, the ECU knows that the engine is at a higher altitude where the air is thinner. Ask your tech.

Airplane engine have different power ratings for different altitudes.

Your driving style is one thing but altitude has a great effect as well.

With the exactly the same driving style, your ECU would feed less gas at altitude than at sea level.

BoyntonStu


P.S. I am looking for someone to help design an air flap/butterfly that will open automatically at full throttle.

[daddymikey1975]

However, the ECU knows that the engine is at a higher altitude where the air is thinner. Ask your tech.



Stu, by allowing less air to pass through something is this the same as 'thinner' air ?? less air isn't the same as thinner air is it?

the lesser amount of air (velocity) the molecules themselves would be closer together in denser air, and farther apart in thinner air.. but that wouldn't relate to the velocity of the air would it ??

hence the difference to the 2 different types of sensors.. manifold absolute pressure (density) and Mass air flow (velocity) seens as if they do different jobs.. could they be 2 different things??

i'm asking because i honestly don't know.

mike

[H2OPWR]

As the ECU adapts to the new learning curve it thinks you are just a very careful driver and adapts to what it thinks your driving style is.

True.

However, the ECU knows that the engine is at a higher altitude where the air is thinner. Ask your tech.

Airplane engine have different power ratings for different altitudes.

Your driving style is one thing but altitude has a great effect as well.

With the exactly the same driving style, your ECU would feed less gas at altitude than at sea level.

BoyntonStu


P.S. I am looking for someone to help design an air flap/butterfly that will open automatically at full throttle.

Yes Stu the ECU does compinsate for altitude that is completely true. Less total volume of air which includes both air flow as well as air density. That combined with less fuel creates less horsepower at that particular throttle position. For the automobile to make up for the lost power the driver then has to depress the accellerator further to allow more volume of thinner air. The ECU then compinsates by adding more fuel based on throttle position. There is no appreciable gain in fuel economy at altitude given like driving styles the ECU is set up to compinsate. I think we are referencing different things completely. I am referencing a more complete burn of the fuel due to HHO as well as the actual combustion pressure that the HHO adds. Effectevily teaching the ECU a more moderate driving style while re learning with HHO. You still need mod's to take full advantage. The ECU looks at many things to determine the actual amount of fuel going through the injector at a given time. We generally only modify MAF/MAP and 02 sensors. While throttle position, air temp, and many others are still in the calculation. None of us has full access to know all the charts that the ECU uses to determine actual fuel trims. That is why so many people have so much trouble with mod's. Having the ECU learn from scratch that we do not need as much throttle pressure to accelerate and maintain speed when HHO is added is helpful. No one has to but I fully am convinced getting rid of all the learned habits of the ECU would be extremely helpful especially after a few unsuccessful mod adjustments to the sensors, a few CEL's and the such. We are confusing our ECU's and much of that data remains stored.

[BoyntonStu]

Yes Stu the ECU does compinsate for altitude that is completely true. Less total volume of air which includes both air flow as well as air density. That combined with less fuel creates less horsepower at that particular throttle position. For the automobile to make up for the lost power the driver then has to depress the accellerator further to allow more volume of thinner air. The ECU then compinsates by adding more fuel based on throttle position. There is no appreciable gain in fuel economy at altitude given like driving styles the ECU is set up to compinsate. I think we are referencing different things completely. I am referencing a more complete burn of the fuel due to HHO as well as the actual combustion pressure that the HHO adds. Effectevily teaching the ECU a more moderate driving style while re learning with HHO. You still need mod's to take full advantage. The ECU looks at many things to determine the actual amount of fuel going through the injector at a given time. We generally only modify MAF/MAP and 02 sensors. While throttle position, air temp, and many others are still in the calculation. None of us has full access to know all the charts that the ECU uses to determine actual fuel trims. That is why so many people have so much trouble with mod's. Having the ECU learn from scratch that we do not need as much throttle pressure to accelerate and maintain speed when HHO is added is helpful. No one has to but I fully am convinced getting rid of all the learned habits of the ECU would be extremely helpful especially after a few unsuccessful mod adjustments to the sensors, a few CEL's and the such. We are confusing our ECU's and much of that data remains stored.

OK. I agree with you about referencing different issues.

We are not reading from the same page of music.

I never mentioned Hydroxy with respect to air restriction.

We have put that to rest.

Less air means less fuel per throttle position which yields less power and at increase MPG.

If we add Hydroxy, the flame speed of the gas/Hydroxy mixture will increase and it is possible to retard the timing and cause the mixture to burn more efficiently.

It may be possible to gain back the power lost due to the air restriction and, as a bonus to the environment, make the exhaust cleaner.


Try a few strips of duct tape.


BoyntonStu

[H2OPWR]

OK. I agree with you about referencing different issues.

We are not reading from the same page of music.

I never mentioned Hydroxy with respect to air restriction.

We have put that to rest.

Less air means less fuel per throttle position which yields less power and at increase MPG.

If we add Hydroxy, the flame speed of the gas/Hydroxy mixture will increase and it is possible to retard the timing and cause the mixture to burn more efficiently.

It may be possible to gain back the power lost due to the air restriction and, as a bonus to the environment, make the exhaust cleaner.


Try a few strips of duct tape.


BoyntonStu

Ok now we are in total agreement!!! Glad that is done.

Larry

[Painless]

P.S. I am looking for someone to help design an air flap/butterfly that will open automatically at full throttle.

Stu,

Here are two ideas:

Cut a covering 'flap' that is the same size as the inside of your air hose from the filter to the throttle body. Attach the flap at one point to the hose with a hinge with a spring to resist it opening. The idea here, is that the vacuum of the air intake will pull on the flap (against the spring tension), opening the hole wider at bigger air demands.

Make a tube out of a very flexible rubber sheet, material similar to a balloon. The tube should be placed inside the air hose with with a metal ring at each end that is the same diameter as the inside diameter of the air hose, in the middle of the flexible tube place a smaller ring around it (say half the air hose diameter) made out of an elastic that can be stretched fairly easily. As the engine demands more air, the venturi shape of the tube will stretch the middle ring wider, allowing more air flow.

Russ.

[alpha-dog]

What I don't understand is that when my air filter was needing to be changed I had excellant FE. They put a new filter on and FE went down. So now that I'm rebuilding my HHO system I decided to put a tube with cold air box on my truck. FE went back up with more air and cold air at that. There is more to this equation then is being discussed.