ECU Outsmarting my EFIE Chip?? Possible?

[mobman]

Hey guys...I have bought this EFIE Chip on ebay..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250346423469&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=015

I have tapped the MAF Signal wire (hope the right one) and Iam using a scan gauge to monitor my GPH usage. After intalling everything I ran my car and I could lower my GPH just by adjusting the knobs on the EFIE module. After driving for about 20-25 Mins...my GPH went back to normal without me turning off the EFIE Chip...almost like the ECU had known that this wire is "hacked" into and decided to detour the fuel voltage signal elsewhere. Is that even possible? Now everytime this happens I have to restart my car and I will be able to control it for another 20-25 mins before the fuel usuage is going back to normal. Do you know what could be the problem? Did I tap the wrong wire? O2 sensors have anything to do with this??

[H2OPWR]

Hey guys...I have bought this EFIE Chip on ebay..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250346423469&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=015

I have tapped the MAF Signal wire (hope the right one) and Iam using a scan gauge to monitor my GPH usage. After intalling everything I ran my car and I could lower my GPH just by adjusting the knobs on the EFIE module. After driving for about 20-25 Mins...my GPH went back to normal without me turning off the EFIE Chip...almost like the ECU had known that this wire is "hacked" into and decided to detour the fuel voltage signal elsewhere. Is that even possible? Now everytime this happens I have to restart my car and I will be able to control it for another 20-25 mins before the fuel usuage is going back to normal. Do you know what could be the problem? Did I tap the wrong wire? O2 sensors have anything to do with this??

Monitor your long term and short term fuel trims. Go slowly. Too much a difference between the two will cause the ECM to make dramatic adjustments. Also if you are not giving the engine enough HHO you could be affecting it that way by having to increase throttle position to maintain power. If you have access get your ECM re set to origional settings. Contrary to popular opinion just unhooking the battery will not re set your ECM. Just clear codes. The long term settings are stored and will remain even after the ECM has lost all power.

[daddymikey1975]

Hey guys...I have bought this EFIE Chip on ebay..

I have tapped the MAF Signal wire (hope the right one) and Iam using a scan gauge to monitor my GPH usage. After intalling everything I ran my car and I could lower my GPH just by adjusting the knobs on the EFIE module. After driving for about 20-25 Mins...my GPH went back to normal without me turning off the EFIE Chip...almost like the ECU had known that this wire is "hacked" into and decided to detour the fuel voltage signal elsewhere. Is that even possible? Now everytime this happens I have to restart my car and I will be able to control it for another 20-25 mins before the fuel usuage is going back to normal. Do you know what could be the problem? Did I tap the wrong wire? O2 sensors have anything to do with this??

Mobman welcome to the board :)

I was unaware that the scan gauge could monitor GPH.. ? I know it's inaccurate for calculating MPG because it uses sensor inputs as opposed to injector pulse time..

H2OPWR is correct about long term fuel trims but let's get some more information so we can better help you.
Here are some things we need to know.
1. year make and model of your vehicle.
2. what all mods you made to the vehicle (electronic mods such as your MAF enhancer)
3. describe your HHO setup for us (mey reveal missing links)
4. tell us what wire (color and location) you tapped into for the MAF enhancer.

With this information we can give you more direct advice as opposed to guessing.

upon first reading your post, it appears that you're adjusting too much. I'm wondering if this device is truly an EFIE (O2 sensor mod) or if it's truly a MAF enhancer.. he says both (kinda) in the auction.

I hope this helps
mike

[Painless]

There is a GPH gauge on the SGII, but it uses the same method of guestimating as the MPG. You will re-call that I was able to falsely boost my MPG to over 28mpg by just adjusting my MAP enhancer. The MAP/MAF is one of the sensors it uses to guestimate the fuel consumption as well as assuming a 14.7/1 AFR.

As concerns the problem of achieving gains, I believe you should start with a true EFIE (O2 sensor modifier) and not the MAP/MAF enhancer that you have. Once the fuel trims have been normalised through the EFIE you can then use the MAP/MAF enhancer you have to lock in those gains.

Hope this helps!

Russ.

[mobman]

hey guys thanks for the feedback but Iam still stuck with that problem. Well here is the deal and I'll try to give more information this time. I have a 2000 Volvo S40 Turbocharged. The car gets about 23/32 MPG city/hwy with the turbo. What I did was I figured out as "Phase 1" of my project how to shut off the turbocharger so I dont get an Hydrogen bomb when I run the HHO system. So far I am not running an HHO setup (although a dry-cell kit is on order). I have installed the EFIE I posted above I got from eBay. I tapped the wire on my MAF sensor with black/white color because according the to scan gauge...that wire gave me the most "gain" when I adjust the knobs on the EFIE module. The red one I believe is the 12 Volt connection and the other wire didnt do anything when I adjusted the knob, so I really hope I got the right wire tapped. I just wanted to adjust the fuel curve a little to compensate for the turbocharger not producing any boost by lowering the fuel a little so I didnt adjust it too much. Secondly I did hear about a O2 Adjuster (they are more expensive on ebay) but wasn't sure if I should go for those. Russ you mentioned the ECU may swith to TP to adjust fuel curve? That could be it because my scan gauge showed an even higher increase of GPH than with the "factory" switch on the EFIE chip. I could mess with the ECU itself but is that really a long term option since it may go back to checking the TP everytime the ECU notices its being fooled with??

[mobman]

btw...how is this module..??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HHO-DIGITAL-DISPLAY-O2-MAP-ENHANCER-EFIE-MONEY-BACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a1Q7 c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQha shZitem110331943970QQitemZ110331943970QQptZMotorsQ 5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

let me know if thats a better one to get or if you have any tips where I can get a good module? Thanks!

[H2OPWR]

Your first step before buying anything is to make sure that you actually have narrow band O2's. There are several types and one EFIE will not help another. Second your ECU is designed for your system to have turbo boost. Many people are successfully running HHO with Turbo's especially Diesels. I have to assume that without any turbo boost that your ECM is already confused. I know that Volvo electronics are complicated enough to start with. My last and best advice is to not use ANY electronic mod's without a good functioning HHO Gen installed. You need to replace the lost fuel with something to help power or you are risking very serious engine damage. It is your call but please slow down and get HHO installed without any mod's. Check your fuel mileage then go SLOWLY from there.

[mobman]

Your first step before buying anything is to make sure that you actually have narrow band O2's. There are several types and one EFIE will not help another. Second your ECU is designed for your system to have turbo boost. Many people are successfully running HHO with Turbo's especially Diesels. I have to assume that without any turbo boost that your ECM is already confused. I know that Volvo electronics are complicated enough to start with. My last and best advice is to not use ANY electronic mod's without a good functioning HHO Gen installed. You need to replace the lost fuel with something to help power or you are risking very serious engine damage. It is your call but please slow down and get HHO installed without any mod's. Check your fuel mileage then go SLOWLY from there.


Ok iam getting an error code P0102 which basically states that there is a problem with the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor or circuit. A more technical description would be that the MAF circuit had lower than expected voltage (air flow). Im also getting a P0172 which states: An oxygen sensor in bank 1 detected a rich condition (too little oxygen in the exhaust). On top of that my engine overheated like crazy today! The water temp is at 275 F instead of normal operating temp of 160 F. I thought this was due to something else but I think i am doing more damage to my engine that good :(

I will shut off the EFIE to see if things improve but just to be sure would an ECU throw a P0102 code if the right MAF wire would have been tapped into in an HHO setup?? Also if the oxygen sensor detects not enough oxygen...I suppose thats because i have shut off the turbo...wouldn't it make sense to lean out the fuel curve to compensate for the lack of oxygen??

[mobman]

and one more question guys...

my scan gauge shows a 0.29 GPH fuel comsumption at idle...i was adjusting it with the EFIE to give me 0.20 GPH...is that too much adjustment without the HHO system to run?? I saw a guy on Youtube adjust his from 0.26 all the way down to 0.12 (with an HHO system however).

[H2OPWR]

and one more question guys...

my scan gauge shows a 0.29 GPH fuel comsumption at idle...i was adjusting it with the EFIE to give me 0.20 GPH...is that too much adjustment without the HHO system to run?? I saw a guy on Youtube adjust his from 0.26 all the way down to 0.12 (with an HHO system however).

ANY adjustment should not be made without an HHO supplement device. You are running a great risk.

[Painless]

Didn't realise that you weren't running HHO yet! As Larry and company already said, STOP before you damage your engine.

Personally, I would not disable the turbo unless you are going to get the ECU completely remapped to account for the airflow and pressure change.

I mentioned before, but will repeat in case you missed it, changing your MAP/MAF will alter the GPH on your scangauge, but not because your fuel use is decreasing to that degree, the SG uses the MAP/MAF and other senses to guess your fuel consumption, therefore altering these inputs will throw its calculations way off.

The only way you can determine consumption is by dividing miles by gallons pumped when you fill up. The SG's fuel trim and other data will be valuable when tuning properly.

Russ.

[daddymikey1975]

mobman, you can leave the turbo hooked up to the motor AND have HOO... just send you HHO in before the turbo.. like before the air filter or just after...you want it to go INTO the intake side of the turbo not after otherwise your turbo will pressurize your HHO setup and that could be bad.

and just to confirm what everyone else already said..STOP adjusting your fuel trims without HHO.. you could seriously damage your engine in short order...

I hope this helps
mike

[mobman1]

hey guys, someone must have banned me from the forum...hope I am not being too nosy ;)

Anywho...advise taken- I have stopped messing with it but just an FYI the car overheating was due to something else and not me adjusting stuff. Ok I'll respond to some of ur comments:



I would not disable the turbo unless you are going to get the ECU completely remapped to account for the airflow and pressure change.

So Basically there is no way to make fine adjustment on a o2 sensor enhancer or a Map/Maf enchancer to compensate for the lack of air coming into the engine??




I mentioned before, but will repeat in case you missed it, changing your MAP/MAF will alter the GPH on your scangauge, but not because your fuel use is decreasing to that degree, the SG uses the MAP/MAF and other senses to guess your fuel consumption, therefore altering these inputs will throw its calculations way off.



But arent the MAP/MAF/O2 Enhancers also changing the voltage to fool the ECU and decreasing/increasing the fuel to air mixture etc? So wouldn't it at least be somewhat accurate in the calculations? At least it will show a decrease in consumption doesnt it?




mobman, you can leave the turbo hooked up to the motor AND have HOO... just send you HHO in before the turbo.. like before the air filter or just after...you want it to go INTO the intake side of the turbo not after otherwise your turbo will pressurize your HHO setup and that could be bad.


You mean after the turbo compressor housing right? Because if the HHO gas is injected into the intake side of the turbo the gases will be pressurized in the compressor housing. Also I have an intercooler...would there be a problem if HHO gas gets into the intercooler?

[Painless]

So Basically there is no way to make fine adjustment on a o2 sensor enhancer or a Map/Maf enchancer to compensate for the lack of air coming into the engine??

You can use these sensors to adjust the air fuel ratio to a degree, how much depends on each vehicle. I don't believe, however, that as big a change as removing a turbo could be compensated for so simply though. This is my opinion, but one of the ASE's on this forum should be able to advise you better.


But arent the MAP/MAF/O2 Enhancers also changing the voltage to fool the ECU and decreasing/increasing the fuel to air mixture etc? So wouldn't it at least be somewhat accurate in the calculations? At least it will show a decrease in consumption doesnt it?

Let me give you an example, I recently tried fiddling with the MAP enhancer on my Ram while I wasn't running HHO. My truck usually averages 16-17 mpg, with one turn of the knob the scangauge jumped up to 28+ mpg. This is not accurate at all. I had an email conversation with the techs at linear logic and they informed me that any alteration of the MAP/MAF or O2 sensors will throw the scangauge's calculations way off as it always assumes a 14.7/1 AFR. Rely on your tank fillups and trip odometer only.

Hope this helps!

Russ.

[daddymikey1975]

After the intercooler but before the turbo would be the best.

I agree with this.. search through Painless' thread and see his cleansing bubbler. Build one and the HHO should be pure enough to keep from damaging the turbo or the intercooler.. there would not be a problem having the hho before the intercooler, or after as long as it's on the low pressure side.

if you can get it to go in behind the intercooler its better. if you can't then definitely build a cleansing bubbler.

Another note, there's a member named Smith03jetta.. he did an install and noticed some crusting in his throttle body.. he installed a paint gun air line filter (red one i believe) and the size of the particles that it would filter is anything larger than an HHO atom ironically... he took his car apart again and there was no more residue after installing the filter. do a search for his thread and he has pictures as well

I hope this helps
mike