Heat required for HHO production? +more?

[bigjim56]

I've got the water4gas jar design (6 cells) currently installed and am adding NaOH (10MNaOH) a drop at a time as my electrolite. I'm using a 50/50 mix of deionized water w/windshield wiper fluid to prevent freezing. Working great so far, no sign of freezing and the cells are bubbling nicely.

My question is do I have to have the cells hot or warm to the touch to actually be producing HHO?

My MPG's so far have shown no improvement, so I'm assuming I'm just bubbling water up till now. Have had some vacuum leaks but have recently overcome them...though the idle is still higher than when I began. Can I ever expect to get back to the original idle level with the bubbling inlet of the cells? I've cut way back on the inlet bubbling, but I do want some to ensure the proper gas flow.

One last thought...I am pretty sure I will move on to a "smacks in a jar" shortly because of the simplicity of the build and the greater output that this design produces. I like the jar method for the fact that you can visibly see whats happening, and the availabillity of the parts (Additional DI/NaOH can be added thru the inlet bubbler). I can now see where all my errors were on the wire design cells, so the smacks jar should be a vast improvement. On the explosion theory...well, I've have one blow on me already (playin) and all it did was blow the lid off, the jar was fine. So, unless there's a more economical/feasable idea out there on the cell holder thats what I will go with.

I appreciate all feedback and want to thank everyone beforehand for their responses.

How about the plates for the smacks...Grainger / McMaster / Lowe's / or Home Depot, who has the best/proper plates for my next project?

Thanks again for your time and responses,

bigjim56

[coffeeachiever]

Heat is not neccessary for HHO production. It is an unfortunate byproduct. There is much conversation here on eliminating heat and steam. You'll want to divide voltage accross your plates to average between 2 and 2.4 volts per plate while balancing that with electrolyte concentration to control amp draw. I have a couple of questions for you on the electrolyte thread you posted on. Thanks.

[H2OPWR]

My advice is to save your money and not buy lowes/home depot plates. Look under the “For sale” section and contact SCM. You can buy 316 plates for not much more and you will have better results.

I would also recommend you building a dry cell. You can use $3 cutting boards for your end plates. As for your gaskets, SCM might be able to help you there as well.

Now as far as seeing results, you will probably need a EFIE. Without it your car's computer is going to dump more fuel in to compensate for the extra oxygen it is seeing. I am building a batch of them for sale, or you could buy them from ebay.

Hope that helps.

Shane

I agree with Shane. I bought 50 316L plares from SCM. They were perfectly flat and the highest quality I have ever seen at a very good price. I am about to post a video on my thread "Zero current leakage cell" of the plates after over 50 hours of run time. The quality is first rate and the service even better. The cutting board materal Shane references is HDPE. It works wonderfully. I got some smooth sideded HDPE from the local plastic's outlet. 3/4" thick. It is very rigid and is drilled and threaded easily. AVOID ANY GLUE OR ADHESIVE'S at all costs. They all fail over time. My best advice is to discard the Water4gas type cell's and build yourself a dry cell. You will forever be happy with the change.

[bigjim56]

OK I'll bite, but who or what is SCM. Is that the company, the call letters. I looked in the "For Sale" section and did'nt see either. I'm ready to buy, just want a known 316 source.

I put A LOT of work into this water4gas design, just want to get it functioning (even if its a little) as I work on the plate design. I plan to build 6-8 cells and fit as many as possible in my car, then move on to my truck.

Shane: I've got a fuel control module (forgot the name of it), bought it from penneyfuel. In the HHO mode, just dial it back until you feel the engine tug, then back a notch. Controls the excess fuel that gets dumped because of the oxygen sensors sensing more oxygen.

Thanks for the replies.

bigjim56

[daddymikey1975]

BigJim

I agree 100% not to spend the time and money on any more 'brick in a bath' designs.. water4gas designs, or any of the glass jar, or PVC tube setups..

there's a TON of GREAT information on this board for dry cells. If you calculate all the money and time wasted on experimenting (like I did and others already) you'll see that a dry cell truly is the way to go. It's very efficient and relatively easy to build. While it's a bit more expensive than a jar or pvc setup, how many setups will you spend money on playing around ?? just my .02.

to help with what H2OPWR said, SCM is the member's name, his post is here: http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1934

and definitely check out this thread. it's a long read but very very informative:
http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2029

and as always, if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

i hope this helps
mike

[coffeeachiever]

BigJim,

Once again, Mike is correct. Wet cells are generally just a very expensive way to slowly boil water. I wasted my share of time and money on them. There are a couple of forum members that have had some success with them, but a dry cell is the way to go.

[H2OPWR]

OK I'll bite, but who or what is SCM. Is that the company, the call letters. I looked in the "For Sale" section and did'nt see either. I'm ready to buy, just want a known 316 source.

I put A LOT of work into this water4gas design, just want to get it functioning (even if its a little) as I work on the plate design. I plan to build 6-8 cells and fit as many as possible in my car, then move on to my truck.

Shane: I've got a fuel control module (forgot the name of it), bought it from penneyfuel. In the HHO mode, just dial it back until you feel the engine tug, then back a notch. Controls the excess fuel that gets dumped because of the oxygen sensors sensing more oxygen.

Thanks for the replies.


bigjim56

Here is the link to SCM's thread

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1934
I do agree that a Dry cell is the way to go and costs less than most other methods. Also much easier to seal up.

[bigjim56]

Thanks for the SCM clarification. I have looked at dry cells and even looked at some on ebay/seigrene etc. I have no shop where as to do major work, (just my garage) so if it was a dry cell, it would more or less have to be a kit.
The smacks in a jar idea derives from the fact that the reservoir is self contained w/the jar vs. the dry cell requires an external reservoir. I am trying to install this on my car (2001 Acura Integra), so space is limited. I want to make it into a hybrid. Currently getting 30-35mpg, the water4gas has not been much of a success thus far...but the way the car is running makes me a believer that HHO is a plus for it. Once I get a workable system, then on to my truck...I tow a trailer w/it and the additional power would be well worth the time and investment. Breath new life into the old lady.

I have room for the 6 current cells and a bubbler,(w/room to spare) so a dry cell w/a reservoir/bubbler should not be a problem. I agree, from all that I've read, and not just this site, but the many others and on youtube as well that the dry cell is a better way to go. Brick in a bath...I like that.

So, any ideas on the best dry cell kit? When additional makeup water is added, does it require more electrolite? I've read that the electrolite stays in the resident container, only additional deionized water is needed once the optimum electrilitic concentration is reached. I was impressed with the Seigrene (hope I spelled it right) dry cell kit and came close to buying it. Anybody have one of theses operating now?

Thanks H2OPWR, Shane, Coffee, Daddy, for the replies...the links have been viewed and I will do so again, thanks for the threads...

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

Thanks for the SCM clarification. I have looked at dry cells and even looked at some on ebay/seigrene etc. I have no shop where as to do major work, (just my garage) so if it was a dry cell, it would more or less have to be a kit.
The smacks in a jar idea derives from the fact that the reservoir is self contained w/the jar vs. the dry cell requires an external reservoir. I am trying to install this on my car (2001 Acura Integra), so space is limited. I want to make it into a hybrid. Currently getting 30-35mpg, the water4gas has not been much of a success thus far...but the way the car is running makes me a believer that HHO is a plus for it. Once I get a workable system, then on to my truck...I tow a trailer w/it and the additional power would be well worth the time and investment. Breath new life into the old lady.

I have room for the 6 current cells and a bubbler,(w/room to spare) so a dry cell w/a reservoir/bubbler should not be a problem. I agree, from all that I've read, and not just this site, but the many others and on youtube as well that the dry cell is a better way to go. Brick in a bath...I like that.

So, any ideas on the best dry cell kit? When additional makeup water is added, does it require more electrolite? I've read that the electrolite stays in the resident container, only additional deionized water is needed once the optimum electrilitic concentration is reached. I was impressed with the Seigrene (hope I spelled it right) dry cell kit and came close to buying it. Anybody have one of theses operating now?

Thanks H2OPWR, Shane, Coffee, Daddy, for the replies...the links have been viewed and I will do so again, thanks for the threads...

bigjim56

If you keep your temparature under 120 degrees most (not all) of the electrolite stays in the cell. You should be able to just add distilled water until you see the amp draw start to fall off. Then add a little electrolite until it gets back where you want it. I am not sure as to which dry cell kit would be a good one to but. Many of the members have purchased kits and found that the outrageous claims were simply lie's. I would just take the plunge and make one. If you have access to a drill and a few normal tools you can easily make one on your kitchen table. If you do not have the tools or just do not want to make one be very wary before purchasing one. Make sure that the claims are valid with some kind of good guarantee. If you find one you think you would like before you spend your money just post a link to the kit. Most of us that have spent time and money on them will be happy to take a look and give you our opinion. If you decide to build one yourself look at many of the threads here and read them all the way through. Here we all post our success as well as failures. Our failures can save someone new to HHO hundreds of dollars. If I knew what I know now a year ago I could have saved myself thousands of dollars. Be aware that most kits are not turn key. You get a pile of plates, bolts, and gaskets. Most do not provide a resevoir or bubbler. You still have got to condition the plates, assemble everything and come up with a resevoir and bubbler.

[daddymikey1975]

So, any ideas on the best dry cell kit?

bigjim56

Bigjim
I agree with Larry. Any 'kit' will need to be assembled which you can do on your kitchen table with a minimal amount of hand tools.

I'll tell you what I think. I think you're like me.. in the beginning of my HHO venture I was looking for an instruction list. I couldn't find one. I wanted a list of parts or materials so I could build something. I found the Smack's booster instructions online. So i built it LOL..THEN I realized that there are many other ways to build a HHO generator.

What I also realized is that there's no 'one way' to buld one. So I started to look at dry cells, pics and videos.. and came up with my own design. And I'm not a designer or engineer. What I'll do is break it down for you. you'll need to figure out how large a Gen you want to build and how many plates, etc.
I would suggest something setup like this:
+NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN- where each + and each - and each N is a plate (total of 19 here). In effect you will have 3 generators in one. (you can always scale it down if you want as well)

get some 4x6 or 5x7 plates cut from some 316L stainless and make sure you leave tabs or corners or a method for connecting power to the plates that need power and an entry hole near the bottom and exit hole near the top. basically draw your plan out on paper with a pen. you can probably email your design to SCM and get the plates for an affordable price as H2OPWR has done.

Now you need gasket material. There's several ways to obtain gasket material. Call around your town for a local rubber supply company. They usually have sheets you can get for an affordable price. you'll want somehting of medium durometer (hardness) and a little less than 1/8" thick so when it compresses you're at about 1/16".. this will be a very good plate gap.

Now you need end plates. Go to your local wal mart. They have a cutting board that's HUGE for 10 bucks. It's milky white in appearance and about 1/2" thick
link: http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_9990000011908811P (i know i said wal mart but i couldnt find them on their website)
cut the board down with a circular saw, jigsaw, or table saw to the size you need. About 1 inch larger than your plates. (about 1/2" inch hang over the plates in all directions)

Now you need stainless bolts, washers and nuts. Go to your local hardware store and get some stainless hardware long enough to go through all the material once it's stacked up. You'll only need 1/4" or 5/16" diameter hardware.
While you're there get some 90 degree elbows with a threaded end (the same milky white ones) so you can attach some 1/4" I.D. tubing to your cell.. in fact, get some 1/4" I.D. tubing.
Get a thread tap to match the diameter of your elbows and the thread pitch.

take all this stuff home and clear off the kitchen table.

Lay a completed plate (from SCM) on the cutting board pieces. evenly mark out the holes for the top, bottom, sides, entry, and exit.

Drill them out. It may help if you sandwich or clamp both pieces of cutting board together and drill both at the same time so all holes will line up.

Tap the entry and exit holes with your thread tap.

insert some bolts/washers through the holes.

Now it's time to stack-it.

you have cutting board, gasket, plate, gasket, plate..etc. until it's all stacked up paying attention to the configuration we posted above.. make sure you alternate the + from the - plates (flip them over) so you can connect to them easily once assembled.

once it's all stacked up, gently tighten the hardware you have inserted enough to hold it all together while you finish adding the rest of the hardware.

Use some teflon tape on your threads and screw in your 90 degree elbows.

VIOLA... you now have a dry cell...

here's a link to the bubbler/reservoir that I purchased.

http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,61571/initialAction,accessoryProductDetail/initialR,3169757/shopping/selectZip.htm
Sorry, the photo isn't available. If you call your local autozone and ask them for a universal coolant reservoir you'll find what I'm talking about.

I hope this helps
mike

[H2OPWR]

Big Jim

Here is just one example of what you are up against if you buy a kit. While this seems easy and the claims of 1.25 to 1.5 lpm at 20 amps (4.5 to 5.3 MMW) seem reasonable and effecient there is NO WAY POSSIBLE for this open bath set up to even approach those numbers without measuring steam. Also this site is selling a PWM for triple the money that they are available elsewhere. This is why I recommend caution before buying a kit. There are so many people in this country that have started down the path you are on only to be dissapointed and give up.

http://hydro-extra.webs.com/

[bigjim56]

Thanks H2OPWR/Daddymikey1975,

You guys have sold me on the dry cell, I was more or less trying to decide whether the purchased kit, or self made as my route. Self made would give me much more pride and sense of accomplishment. I thought the extended tip on the + plates that the video showed was an excellent idea, Kudos
H2OPWR.

I'll drop the smacks in a jar idea, I guess the availability of the jars and other hardware (which I already purchased for the first set, so I know where to go for everything) was guiding my thinking. I will be contacting SCM for some plates within the next month, have to draw up the plans. I figure I may as well go one step farther and build 2, do my truck also...what do you suggest should be the guidelines for the differences in the builds between the two, or should they be identical? My priority is w/the car, the truck rarely sees use until summer. The truck is a Ford fuel injected 350 V8, so I know I'll need a map sensor to override the oxygen sensors.

One thing that confuses me still is w/the plates...there's only 2 +'s in your above layout (daddymikey1975). I've seen dozens of HHO videos on youtube and one showed that there's even HHO production on the plates far from the +, I originally thought this was not possible, but now see otherwise. Your layout shows a lot of neutral plates, what designates the abundance of the neutrals? Why should'nt they all be either + or -'s? I now realize there's electron leakage (esp. unwrapped water4gas designs), but I thought in a dry cell that would all but be eliminated, hence their efficiency increase. I saw the brush wrap that H2OPWR put on the top bolt holes to eliminate the electron black streaks on his newest plates (after 60 hrs. use) So, I assume the leakage is still surfacing on the older design dry cells.

Thanks daddymikey75 for the step by step procedure for the making of the dry cell and the reservoir link, it will be very helpful in the near future.

H2OPWR, excellent link to the smacks in a jar, exactly what I was looking to build (before this thread), the overwelming consensus among HHO cell builders is that the dry cell is much more efficient and reliable so thats what I'll build. I''m wanting to learn from experience and quit banging my head against a wall with failed/lacking designs.

The PWM is a modulator that applies power at variable rates and timing to increase the efficiency and output of the dry cell...correct? Are you using one with your setup? Any links to an affordable PWM?

Thanks for the replies, advice and suggestions, they're much appreciated.

bigjim56

[daddymikey1975]

One thing that confuses me still is w/the plates...there's only 2 +'s in your above layout (daddymikey1975). I've seen dozens of HHO videos on youtube and one showed that there's even HHO production on the plates far from the +, I originally thought this was not possible, but now see otherwise. Your layout shows a lot of neutral plates, what designates the abundance of the neutrals? Why should'nt they all be either + or -'s? I now realize there's electron leakage (esp. unwrapped water4gas designs), but I thought in a dry cell that would all but be eliminated, hence their efficiency increase. I saw the brush wrap that H2OPWR put on the top bolt holes to eliminate the electron black streaks on his newest plates (after 60 hrs. use) So, I assume the leakage is still surfacing on the older design dry cells.
bigjim56

Bigjim.. Ideally we're looking to have a voltage drop across 2 adjacent plates of around 2.3V ... if we assume an average alternator puts out around 13.5Volts and we have a total of 7 plates that gives us 6 gaps. With this configuration you'll have 13.5/6 = 2.25Volts per gap. I suggest measuring your own alternator at idle to determine how many volts yours puts out. Anything less than 13.5 and you'll want to drop a Neutral from each set thereby giving you (for example) 13Volts/5 gaps = 2.6 volts per gap... a bit high but still very productive.

Since you did read H2OPWR's thread about the tool dip, I'd also HIGHLY recommend it. I'm planning on doing that treatment to my own cell during assembly.

The current leakage that you're referring to happens through and because of the holes in the plates. Mostly the bottom holes.. It can cause a drop in efficiency and contributes somewhat to heating.

By treating the holes with the tool dip Larry (H2OPWR) has shown a significant reduction (i'll say elimination) in current leakage.. The way his plate/gasket combination is designed also helps to keep the electrolyte level below the top hole thereby also helping to alleviate current leakage there.

Even with the leakage through and around the holes it's STILL much lower than any brick in a bath configuration.

I hope this helps
mike

[H2OPWR]

Thanks H2OPWR/Daddymikey1975,

You guys have sold me on the dry cell, I was more or less trying to decide whether the purchased kit, or self made as my route. Self made would give me much more pride and sense of accomplishment. I thought the extended tip on the + plates that the video showed was an excellent idea, Kudos
H2OPWR.

I'll drop the smacks in a jar idea, I guess the availability of the jars and other hardware (which I already purchased for the first set, so I know where to go for everything) was guiding my thinking. I will be contacting SCM for some plates within the next month, have to draw up the plans. I figure I may as well go one step farther and build 2, do my truck also...what do you suggest should be the guidelines for the differences in the builds between the two, or should they be identical? My priority is w/the car, the truck rarely sees use until summer. The truck is a Ford fuel injected 350 V8, so I know I'll need a map sensor to override the oxygen sensors.

One thing that confuses me still is w/the plates...there's only 2 +'s in your above layout (daddymikey1975). I've seen dozens of HHO videos on youtube and one showed that there's even HHO production on the plates far from the +, I originally thought this was not possible, but now see otherwise. Your layout shows a lot of neutral plates, what designates the abundance of the neutrals? Why should'nt they all be either + or -'s? I now realize there's electron leakage (esp. unwrapped water4gas designs), but I thought in a dry cell that would all but be eliminated, hence their efficiency increase. I saw the brush wrap that H2OPWR put on the top bolt holes to eliminate the electron black streaks on his newest plates (after 60 hrs. use) So, I assume the leakage is still surfacing on the older design dry cells.

Thanks daddymikey75 for the step by step procedure for the making of the dry cell and the reservoir link, it will be very helpful in the near future.

H2OPWR, excellent link to the smacks in a jar, exactly what I was looking to build (before this thread), the overwelming consensus among HHO cell builders is that the dry cell is much more efficient and reliable so thats what I'll build. I''m wanting to learn from experience and quit banging my head against a wall with failed/lacking designs.

The PWM is a modulator that applies power at variable rates and timing to increase the efficiency and output of the dry cell...correct? Are you using one with your setup? Any links to an affordable PWM?

Thanks for the replies, advice and suggestions, they're much appreciated.

bigjim56

BigJim

Thanks for the compliments. If you like the Idea of the extended tip on the plates just ask SCM to built them just like the ones he built me. You could scale up or down the size to suit your needs and save the trouble of creating a working design. I like the plate set up that I have because you can just run a brass threaded rod through the holes eliminating all those tab and wire connections. If you want n plates you just flip the plate upside down. Yes I use a PWM. Just google MX066 and you will find Bakatronics. It is a company that sells model train products. They have three affordable options. You can then make your choice. I chose the MX068 for these tests because it is capable of 50 amps.

Larry

[bigjim56]

Thanks for responding H2OPWR/Daddyminkey1975,

Can I safely assume I could use the same size dry cell in both my truck and car? I believe that once optimum efficiency is reached w/HHO the excess is just consumed as fuel, allowing for mpg increase in correllation to the dry cell output...meaning a higher output dry cell would benefit both vehicles and would not amount to overkill.

Daddymikey1975 - So its the number of gaps that determines the target voltage drop, and the strength of the electrolite that determines the amp usage and heat buildup. So, unlike the water4gas designs, there's no need to run a multiple cell setup as I'm doing now...the 12 volts(approx.) is spread out evenly among the plates in a much more compact design. One video showed the fill line from the electrolite reservoir as a tube run thru the plates
and predrilled at each gap prior to install, that tube is sufficient for the plates demand? Is that the method you are using?

H2OPWR - I've seen your latest video that shows the 4 holes drilled below the top hole for the purpose of added bonding strength of the tool dip, I assume SCM would pre drill these if requested...he still has your plate plan setup? Also, what is your electrolite consisting of to overcome freezing, Alaska is much colder than here in the midwest. I will be using NaOH for my cell, the water4gas experience has shown me the baking sodas biggest pitfall. One video link on this board showed the plate prep of soaking/washing
the plates in vinegar and DI water rinse, then running at trickle strength to
eliminate any residual pollutants (very clean run at this point). I would plan on doing this for the fact with the tighter clearances of the dry cell, the last thing I would want is to gunk it up. I'm also curious to what your running the dry cell in and what are your results currently. Are you cross sanding the plates at all like a lot of the smacks proponents are doing, that idea seems to have merit.

Sure hope SCM comes back soon, I'm getting antsy about this idea. Even with the lower gas prices now, its just a matter of time before they're jacked again, theyre playing us like a yo-yo. Alternative energy sources are the way to go in my opinion. Did ya see the link w/Heating w/HHO? Sales job maybe, but with enough work and analysis who knows.

Where I work - Water Treatment Plant Operator for a Midwest Water Company (48MGD capacity) we are nearly complete with the upgrade transformation of the chlorine/disinfection process. We will be disinfecting the water no longer w/2000# chlorine cylinders, but thru use of "plate technology" we will be extracting chlorine from salt (brine). Power applied to these plates removes the sodium from the chloride. W/the salt solution we make hypochlorite to be used as the disinfectant. A lot of this idea derived from the reason that its a heavily populated area, and a puncture of one 2000# cylinder would be cause for mass evacuation. The "waste" product here...is Hydrogen! They have exhaust fans that expell it to the atmosphere. I suggested they power a boiler or fuel a hot water heater or something, but they say its more feasable to vent it.

Sorry for the long windiness...morning coffee!

Thanks again for the help and advice,

bigjim56

[H2OPWR]

Thanks for responding H2OPWR/Daddyminkey1975,

Can I safely assume I could use the same size dry cell in both my truck and car? I believe that once optimum efficiency is reached w/HHO the excess is just consumed as fuel, allowing for mpg increase in correllation to the dry cell output...meaning a higher output dry cell would benefit both vehicles and would not amount to overkill.

Daddymikey1975 - So its the number of gaps that determines the target voltage drop, and the strength of the electrolite that determines the amp usage and heat buildup. So, unlike the water4gas designs, there's no need to run a multiple cell setup as I'm doing now...the 12 volts(approx.) is spread out evenly among the plates in a much more compact design. One video showed the fill line from the electrolite reservoir as a tube run thru the plates
and predrilled at each gap prior to install, that tube is sufficient for the plates demand? Is that the method you are using?

H2OPWR - I've seen your latest video that shows the 4 holes drilled below the top hole for the purpose of added bonding strength of the tool dip, I assume SCM would pre drill these if requested...he still has your plate plan setup? Also, what is your electrolite consisting of to overcome freezing, Alaska is much colder than here in the midwest. I will be using NaOH for my cell, the water4gas experience has shown me the baking sodas biggest pitfall. One video link on this board showed the plate prep of soaking/washing
the plates in vinegar and DI water rinse, then running at trickle strength to
eliminate any residual pollutants (very clean run at this point). I would plan on doing this for the fact with the tighter clearances of the dry cell, the last thing I would want is to gunk it up. I'm also curious to what your running the dry cell in and what are your results currently. Are you cross sanding the plates at all like a lot of the smacks proponents are doing, that idea seems to have merit.

Sure hope SCM comes back soon, I'm getting antsy about this idea. Even with the lower gas prices now, its just a matter of time before they're jacked again, theyre playing us like a yo-yo. Alternative energy sources are the way to go in my opinion. Did ya see the link w/Heating w/HHO? Sales job maybe, but with enough work and analysis who knows.

Where I work - Water Treatment Plant Operator for a Midwest Water Company (48MGD capacity) we are nearly complete with the upgrade transformation of the chlorine/disinfection process. We will be disinfecting the water no longer w/2000# chlorine cylinders, but thru use of "plate technology" we will be extracting chlorine from salt (brine). Power applied to these plates removes the sodium from the chloride. W/the salt solution we make hypochlorite to be used as the disinfectant. A lot of this idea derived from the reason that its a heavily populated area, and a puncture of one 2000# cylinder would be cause for mass evacuation. The "waste" product here...is Hydrogen! They have exhaust fans that expell it to the atmosphere. I suggested they power a boiler or fuel a hot water heater or something, but they say its more feasable to vent it.

Sorry for the long windiness...morning coffee!

Thanks again for the help and advice,

bigjim56

I am sure he will return soon. I got a follow-up e-mail from him just a couple weeks ago wondering how the plates were doing. Yes he will add any holes you need to the plates at a small extra cost. It is worth it to have him do it as it is less expensive than burning up drill bit's drilling the hard 316 stainless. If you are not going to use the gasket as I have to compress part if the tool dip I would have small holes all around the larger ones. I do like the placement of the holes in my plates. It has worked out well. I would not worry about tricle feeding his plates to leach out any gunk. I have over 100 hours on the plates now and still have not had any brown gunk to speak of leach out. The stainless is great quality. I do sand and cross sand the plates with a belt sander and 60 grit paper then wash them in the dishwasher and handle the clean plates with only latex gloves. If you can find it I would recommend KOH over NaOH as an electrolite. It is well debated but I have found that KOH gives me about 10% better production at the same amp draw. As far as the cold yes it is more challenging here in Alaska. We have not been above zero in over 2 weeks. Yesterday the high was 15 degrees below zero at my house. I do not have an electrolizer on my current vehicle until I perfect the design. Should be soon though. All last winter I did run one on my previous car. I used Isopropyl Alcohol (99% pure) and strong KOH. I used 20 percent alcohol to water but that is over kill. The KOH or NaOH will protect you down to mid teens or so with nothing else. I will cut it down to 10 percent this winter as it does have some affect on HHO production. As for the bubbler I just filled it up with good windshield washer fluid and had no problem even at 25 below zero. I hope I answered all your questions.

Larry