KISS Design for a low current leakage cell

[Painless]

Now THIS is a great example of a KISS (keep it simple stupid) dry cell that has a reduced possibility of current leakage:

http://www.rexresearch.com/kanarev/7817.gif

As long as the level in the tank is maintained correctly, this should be a fairly effficient cell design!

[BoyntonStu]

Now THIS is a great example of a KISS (keep it simple stupid) dry cell that has a reduced possibility of current leakage:

http://www.rexresearch.com/kanarev/7817.gif

As long as the level in the tank is maintained correctly, this should be a fairly effficient cell design!


Make a square cell out of flat plates with a hole in the upper right corner.

Is there anything more KISS than an Amoeba Cell?

Turn the cell to the left so that the hole is up.

Starve the cell by keeping the reservoir electrolyte level close in height to the hole.

The holes will be mostly dry.

Low leakage.

Perhaps a saving of 8% in efficiency.

So what? The 8% loss is not the issue.

Implementing the Hydroxy and adjusting the ECU is the issue.

Have you tried restricting the air input?

Works for me.

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

Make a square cell out of flat plates with a hole in the upper right corner.

Is there anything more KISS than an Amoeba Cell?

Turn the cell to the left so that the hole is up.

Starve the cell by keeping the reservoir electrolyte level close in height to the hole.

The holes will be mostly dry.

Low leakage.

Perhaps a saving of 8% in efficiency.

So what? The 8% loss is not the issue.

Implementing the Hydroxy and adjusting the ECU is the issue.

Have you tried restricting the air input?

Works for me.

BoyntonStu

Stu,

Please bare in mind when considering efficiency that some of us need larger volumes of gas, therefore, every MMW improvement we can get is a worthy goal. From my research, I need to find between 4-5 LPM of HHO with 40-45 amps of power (max).

4.5 LPM at 45 amps and 14.1v will require an MMW efficiency in the 7's.

I did try restricting the air input, if you remember. A 25% restriction gave no gains over a month or so of testing. I removed the restriction on Monday and my engine is running smoothly again, the lumpy idle has gone and the sudden cutouts too (although the cutouts could have been electrical). My conclusion, air restriction may not be favourable for the newer models.

For me, MMW efficiency is more than a "look what I can do", it's a required goal.

[alpha-dog]

Stu,

Please bare in mind when considering efficiency that some of us need larger volumes of gas, therefore, every MMW improvement we can get is a worthy goal. From my research, I need to find between 4-5 LPM of HHO with 40-45 amps of power (max).

4.5 LPM at 45 amps and 14.1v will require an MMW efficiency in the 7's.

I did try restricting the air input, if you remember. A 25% restriction gave no gains over a month or so of testing. I removed the restriction on Monday and my engine is running smoothly again, the lumpy idle has gone and the sudden cutouts too (although the cutouts could have been electrical). My conclusion, air restriction may not be favourable for the newer models.

For me, MMW efficiency is more than a "look what I can do", it's a required goal.


I need about 5~6lpm with my truck and I'm getting 3.5~4lpm at 45 amps. Its just crazy, you can't do it with DC current. Have you looked at your scantool
yet to determine the change between HHO on and HHO off. I'm not really seeing any change.
Russell

[Painless]

I need about 5~6lpm with my truck and I'm getting 3.5~4lpm at 45 amps. Its just crazy, you can't do it with DC current. Have you looked at your scantool
yet to determine the change between HHO on and HHO off. I'm not really seeing any change.
Russell

My scantool shows no change at 2.5 LPM of dry HHO. I had a long one-on-one chat with Rob from highpoweredh2o a couple of weeks ago, he has a lot of experience with installs in different vehicles. He quoted for my 4.7L:

For dry HHO (vapour condensed out, like mine) you will need upwards of 8 LPM to see good gains.

For wet HHO you will need approx. 4 LPM upwards.

I suggested that I combined 4 LPM with water vapour injection, he was very enthusiastic about that idea. I've read that 5% water to fuel is an ideal ratio.

I can't help but think that a lot of people with the larger V8's are actually seeing gains purely through leaning and not as a result of the HHO. This is why I insisted on an EGT gauge.

Which motor does your Ram have? Hemi? Where is your injection point?

Russ.

[alpha-dog]

I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 1500 with Hemi and automatic. I deliver HHO at the air box about two inchs from the MAS. I've really been thinking about the best way to deliver HHO to my engine. Maybe a tube with a venturi for HHO by the filter. After reading some of your stuff I did drill two 2 1/2 in holes on the engine side of my filter box. What I'm doing now is slaving a pwm to a master pwm to drop actual amperage down by 50%. I'm sure most poeple know that with one pwm, whenever the pwm conducts you still use the same amperage as DC operaton. With an inverter or transistor switch I can make one pwm a slave and make one pwm conduct on the first 50% of the duty cycle and the slave conduct of the last 50% of the duty cycle. This will work for me since my generator is +NN(A)NN-NN(B)NN+NN(C)NN-NN(D)NN+. I can run A & B cell blocks first and C & D cell blocks last during each duty cycle. I might need to add two more cell blocks and I'm wondering if a 30% pulse width would be enough. I could configure for three pwm's though. I enjoyed reading your entire thread.
Russell

[Painless]

So, we pretty much have the same truck except for the engine. You might want to try delivering your HHO into a T in the vacuum and see if that makes any difference, but you will need a ball valve of some kind unless your reservoir is extremely sturdy.

I personally think the combination of 4-5 LPM of HHO and water vapour injection is the best path for us to take. I've thought long and hard about how to make water injection work well, I've tried vacuum but cannot get much draw at all. I'm thinking that some kind of misted spray is the answer.

If you don't use vacuum, you definitely need to feed the HHO right up to the throttle body. The resonator box causes too much air turbulence and I really want to find some appropriate flexible pipe and do away with mine.

[alpha-dog]

So, we pretty much have the same truck except for the engine. You might want to try delivering your HHO into a T in the vacuum and see if that makes any difference, but you will need a ball valve of some kind unless your reservoir is extremely sturdy.

I personally think the combination of 4-5 LPM of HHO and water vapour injection is the best path for us to take. I've thought long and hard about how to make water injection work well, I've tried vacuum but cannot get much draw at all. I'm thinking that some kind of misted spray is the answer.

If you don't use vacuum, you definitely need to feed the HHO right up to the throttle body. The resonator box causes too much air turbulence and I really want to find some appropriate flexible pipe and do away with mine.

Today, I went to lowes and bought some pvc tubing to build a new reservior and I found a great test seal for 2" tubing that should make a great cap for my reservior. Its just a rubber stopper with plates on both sides a screw in the middle and a large wing nut on top. Works good! It might even be a good safty device on a bubbler.
I'm not to sure about using vaccuum just yet. I'll probably try the tube first.
Russell

[Painless]

Today, I went to lowes and bought some pvc tubing to build a new reservior and I found a great test seal for 2" tubing that should make a great cap for my reservior. Its just a rubber stopper with plates on both sides a screw in the middle and a large wing nut on top. Works good! It might even be a good safty device on a bubbler.
I'm not to sure about using vaccuum just yet. I'll probably try the tube first.
Russell

I've seen those test caps too and used a small one on a test reservoir. I'm planning on building another PVC tube reservoir, probably out of 4" this time (the 3" didn't hold much). I'll be using the test caps too.

[coffeeachiever]

I've seen those test caps too and used a small one on a test reservoir. I'm planning on building another PVC tube reservoir, probably out of 4" this time (the 3" didn't hold much). I'll be using the test caps too.

My resevoir is 4" PVC. I primed and glued the ever loving crap out of the end cap and the e lyte still eventually started a slow leak in the bottom. I'm thinking a solid container is better. IMO.

[Painless]

My resevoir is 4" PVC. I primed and glued the ever loving crap out of the end cap and the e lyte still eventually started a slow leak in the bottom. I'm thinking a solid container is better. IMO.

I've built reservoirs and bubblers from PVC and affixed the end cap with standard PVC cement, never had any problems with leakage. Weird.

[alpha-dog]

I'm building a 4" reservoir and was planning on using normal pvc glue..... I wonder if epoxy would work better???

I can't understand why PVC cement won't work. Isn't lye a drain cleaner? PVC stuff is made to handle lye. It must be over a long period of time that creates the problem. I'm still using PVC cement, but just incase vibration also causes leaks I think I'll put rubber on the mount.
Russ

[Painless]

I've been using PVC cement with my PVC reservoir tubes for many months and it's held up fine, even with max concentration electrolyte.

(EDIT: I think I already said this.... isn't age a *****?)

[coffeeachiever]

I can't understand why PVC cement won't work. Isn't lye a drain cleaner? PVC stuff is made to handle lye. It must be over a long period of time that creates the problem. I'm still using PVC cement, but just incase vibration also causes leaks I think I'll put rubber on the mount.
Russ

Those are very good points. My resevoir is what I used to construct my bath cells with before I got into dry cells, so it's had a high concentration e lyte in it for several months. I didn't develop the leak till it had been mounted to the bed of my truck for a couple of weeks.
Fortunately it leaks very little and onto a rubber bed protector, but any leak at all is bad.

[Painless]

Without getting lots of heavy objects thrown at me....

You guys aren't exceeding the 140F limit, are you?

[Carolinablue]

Without getting lots of heavy objects thrown at me....

You guys aren't exceeding the 140F limit, are you?

That would be my thought too. Heat is the only enemy to a good pvc seal. I've been using mine for well over a month, had temps up to 120F in 3" pvc using lye with no problem. Going to temps higher than 140 would definitely weaken it.

[H2OPWR]

If heat is the problem switch to CPVC and CPVC cement both have working temps of 212 and forming temps in the 350 degree range.

[coffeeachiever]

Without getting lots of heavy objects thrown at me....

You guys aren't exceeding the 140F limit, are you?

My dry cell doesn't get over 100, but now that you mention it, my bath cells did. It is the same resivoir. You guys go ahead and get a good laugh at my expense while I stand here and bang my head on the wall. It's okay. Really, go ahead.

[Painless]

You guys go ahead and get a good laugh at my expense while I stand here and bang my head on the wall. It's okay. Really, go ahead.

Just remember, what an invaluable service you are providing!

[daddymikey1975]

Just remember, what an invaluable service you are providing!

ditto... it's all good. I think there have been several 'brain farts' on the forum that we all have learned from. LOL...

[Carolinablue]

ditto... it's all good. I think there have been several 'brain farts' on the forum that we all have learned from. LOL...

AMEN.....I've had my share of them.