I'm still thinking...

[Dave Nowlin]

this through. When talking to the folks at Seigrene, I mentioned to them that HydroClubUSA recommends 2 level tablespoons of Potassium Hydroxide per QUART of distilled water as their electrolyte solution. They said their 21 plate Diamond Cell will produce over 4 lpm with a solution of 2 tablespoons of Potassium Hydroxide per GALLON of distilled water. I asked what amps their cell would draw with that strong a solution. They said they didn't know and they were unsure if their power supply would handle that big a load. Mind you Seigrene uses 4 neutrals per cell and HydroClubUSA only uses 3 neutrals per cell. What do you folks think?

Dave Nowlin

[Painless]

Dave,

Keep in mind, there are several factors that can effect LPM with the same amount of catalyst:

1) Plate gap, the closer the gap the less catalyst you will need.

2) Number of plates, more plates equals more production (to a point, if amps are there).

3) Voltage per cell.

Russ.

[Dave Nowlin]

Danny Arbuckle at HydroClubUSA told me their plates have a gap of 1/32 inch and Seigrene claims 1/16 inch. After receiving the HydroClub USA cell, I would say their gap is closer to a 1/16 inch though the plate spacing isn't consistent. i.e. some plates are close together than others.

Dave Nowlin

[daddymikey1975]

inconsistent plate spacing?? is this intentional (on their part?)

with so few neutrals, I wonder if their cell would generate a decent amount of heat (steam) and that helps with their 4LPM claim...

are you going to use a PWM ??

mike

[Dave Nowlin]

I don't plan on using a PWM. I'd like to keep my system reliable and simple. I want to use the KISS principle.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

I have messed with inconsistant plate gap (not on purpose just a poor design) The resistance lowers as the plate gap narrow's causing un equal amp draw per plate cell. This causes heat and steam. For best effeciency the plate gap's should all be exactly equal and the plates should be as flat as possible (within .003) if possible.

[Dave Nowlin]

I believe one of the problems is they use O-Rings for gaskets. The end plates of this cell are clear polycarbonate and the O-Ring visible on one side is round. The one on the other side is very elongated in shape. I can't see the others. With a 3/32 O-Ring squashed down as a gasket, if the durometer of the O-Rings is a bit inconsistent then the spacing will also be inconsistent. When a builder uses flat EDP gaskets they should compress more consistently as the surface area making contact with the plate is greater. In their design the plate pack is captured inside 4 bolts which don't contact the cell except where electrical connections are made. A cell design where multiple bolts pass through the plates is far more stable and will allow for more consistent plate gaping. This design with the hexagonal plates looks pretty with the clear end plates and all but really isn't very practical for the end user. I'm sure it is practical for the maker as they can be quickly assembled.

Dave Nowlin

[H2OPWR]

The clear Lexan end plates look cool but are less durable and softer than HDPE (White cutting board material). O-Rings are just cheaper. That is all. I am using 40 duro commercial grade neoprene to make gaskets. Much better at 3/4" wide the compression is much more equal making gap's consistantly the same.

[Painless]

I second Larry's point about the clear end plates, they were very useful to me when I was still working on my cell design, however, I've had problems with them cracking under pressure too. I now use 3/8" thick cutting boards, I believe the material is HDPE.

I was using 1/4" acrylic for my see-through end plates, a blockage in my HHO output hose from the reservoir and build up of pressure was enough to crack the acrylic.

[coffeeachiever]

I spent $30 on Lexan end plates because I thought it would be cool to see inside the cell, and it was. The plates lasted one day though before one of them cracked and spilled electroyte all over my garage floor. Seems like we all agree it's not suitable for what we're doing.

[H2OPWR]

I found 3/4" thick HDPE at the local plastic's outlet. It has a smooth surface instead of having the rough cuttingboard surface. It is much easier to seal with gaskets. I made some 10" X 8" end plates and the cost was only $5.00 each. At 3/4" thick it is perfect for drilling and tapping in threads. NO MORE GLUE FOR ME EVER ON ANYTHING!!!! My big 100 plate test cell is now junk because the Marine Goop that I sealed up the edges softened and allowed current leakage. The MMW has dropped off the face of the earth. Oh well on to the next project.

[alpha-dog]

I believe one of the problems is they use O-Rings for gaskets. The end plates of this cell are clear polycarbonate and the O-Ring visible on one side is round. The one on the other side is very elongated in shape. I can't see the others. With a 3/32 O-Ring squashed down as a gasket, if the durometer of the O-Rings is a bit inconsistent then the spacing will also be inconsistent. When a builder uses flat EDP gaskets they should compress more consistently as the surface area making contact with the plate is greater. In their design the plate pack is captured inside 4 bolts which don't contact the cell except where electrical connections are made. A cell design where multiple bolts pass through the plates is far more stable and will allow for more consistent plate gaping. This design with the hexagonal plates looks pretty with the clear end plates and all but really isn't very practical for the end user. I'm sure it is practical for the maker as they can be quickly assembled.

Dave Nowlin


O-ring is so easy that you can put down more than one strip to take care of spacing. You can also get the square O-ring material.
Russ