LARGE LPM Production? Any Input?

[gavinmacrae]

Greetings!
I have seen many different units, producing a varried amount of HHO (1-10LPM approx) through many different cell designs and setups etc... but I have some questions I hope you can answer

I have sucessfully run small one banger briggs+stratton engines solely off of my ABS HHO unit. I draw approx 12-16amps and the hydrogen production is definately there, no denying that.. and does it work, you bet your sweet ass it does! :)


BUT as I started to think, I realized that the generation just simply isnt enough to REALLY make a LARGE impact on say, a V8 5.7L.

I found a guy in daytona beach who has a unit that is very interesting. I am hoping someone with some experience in this matter can let me know what they think of it. The idea seems very rational to me, and the LPM can apparently reach up to 50-60LPM. The overall premis is this:

"the power consumption is equally proportional to the amount of hydrogen that is required"

I will have to install another alternator and another slave battery in my rig to power this unit individually (which isnt a problem), and this appears to be something feasable for LARGE LPM production.

So! Forgive my lack of grammer skills, and take a look at these products/ideas and tell me what you think of it :)

Thank you, and be honest! hehe :)


Description:
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Jugernut_Power_Extreme_HHO_Resonance_Gen erator


Vids:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvpj6cEsLc&feature=related
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHzXpI82H8k&feature=related


Homepage:
http://www.hydroxiljugernut.com/



Thank you :)


gaVin
Canada

[jriggs_18]

IMO large production (10lpm+) of HHO is only going to help if you can acheive OU...good luck with that one.

Im not here to slam your idea, we are all working on this together.

I dont think that just because you have a 5.7L engine you need alot of hho, id say somewhere under 2lpm would do it, however i dont have as much experience with gassers as most of you do. I (sorta) know what works on diesels, but gassers are in deed different from diesels. But I still think that your not going to have good luck with high lpms.

[gavinmacrae]

I understand completely about the steel wool not lasting, this is regrettably the only by-product of this design. Every 2-3 months or so, the steel wool must be replaced as the electrical current destabilizes its structure (it doesn't actually rust, the resistance is what destroys it over time)..

Do you think 10 LPM+ means OU would HAVE to take place? Does it make sense (to you) the more current you can push through the unit, the more LPM you can extract?

Thanks for the replies btw. Hope to hear some more thoughts :)

[H2OPWR]

That many amps would need 4 or 5 extra high output alternators. And just think of the wire size. 750+ amps would melt down battery cables during long periods of usage. And a PWM capable of 750 amps??? I would like to see those mosfets. Way overkill.

[gavinmacrae]

Why is it overkill (if i may ask?)

This unit does have the potential to draw any LPM when backed by the proper electrical power, yes?

[jriggs_18]

Do you think 10 LPM+ means OU would HAVE to take place? Does it make sense (to you) the more current you can push through the unit, the more LPM you can extract?

Thanks for the replies btw. Hope to hear some more thoughts :)

I am completely aware that HHO production is a direct function of input power. You can make as many LPM's as you want provided you have an electrical source that can deliver.

Before I go any further, know this---I have worked extensively on HHO for the past 8 months, I read on about 20 different discussion boards, i just now have begun posting because I am on the hunt for a solution to my roadblock im sitting at, and maybe my conversation will stimulate ideas that will help me and everyone else working with diesel and hho integration. I read some about gas engines using hho, i primarily read about diesel tho.

My point im trying to make about not needing to use high lpms is that as the engine is in action, IMO a small amount of hho will improve the combustion reaction, and after this 'threshold' that i speak of is crossed your engine will then start using the hho as a fuel instead of a catalyst. At the current point in time, hho is not a viable fuel because of generation inefficiencies, but it is a viable catalyst for a combustion/ignition reaction.

Please remember my theory comes with no warranty, it is simply what i have found through my research.

[gavinmacrae]

what do you think the "threshold" really is?

do you think this unit offers something that other units don't offer?

If i induce my engine with HHO, i want to get the best bang for my time so to speak. I don't want to waste time/money on a process that doesn't significantly improve my mileage.

any thoughts?

[ridelong]

I agree with Jriggs. HHO is more expensive, energywise than gasoline to use as fuel.
It is a great catalyst, to make the gasoline burn totally.
I have a 2.3 liter and .3 liters/min HHO increased my MPG from
22.4 to 30.8.

Try a small amount, record the gain, then add some more. Record the gain, etc...., until the gains stop. Then you know how much is right.

[coffeeachiever]

what do you think the "threshold" really is?


The threshold is how much can you lean out your fuel and retard your timing without doing harm to the vehicle. If you want to run your car on JUST water, you need to start looking into plasma plugs and water vapor injection and whatever else you can conjure up.

I agree that that is a buttload of HHO. I also agree that there is no point in making that much of it for an ICE unless OU has been achieved.

That's not to say that what your presenting is not an accomplishment, just saying that I don't see a practical use for the average driver.

[H2OPWR]

Why is it overkill (if i may ask?)

This unit does have the potential to draw any LPM when backed by the proper electrical power, yes?

The reason I would call this Over Kill is because what the goal should be is effeciency. I may have missed it on the website but all the talk was on only volume. Not effeciency. HHO is simply a catalist to help fuel burn and not fuel itself. The electrolosis process is to ineffecient to make more than you need to help the combustion process. This set up may indeed be effecient but without extensive tests I would be leary. I would like to see some tests though.

[cully]

just remember guys
for every

100amps produced you need about 1.6 horsepower + mechanical losses (on a 12volt system)

100amps produced you need about 3.2 horsepower + mechanical losses (on a 24volt system)


on a small engine you will soon notice your fuel consumption going up
while trying to power lots of amps

[HHOinKY]

I agree with Jriggs. HHO is more expensive, energywise than gasoline to use as fuel.
It is a great catalyst, to make the gasoline burn totally.
I have a 2.3 liter and .3 liters/min HHO increased my MPG from
22.4 to 30.8.

Try a small amount, record the gain, then add some more. Record the gain, etc...., until the gains stop. Then you know how much is right.


More info on your unit in another thread please.

[gavinmacrae]

if the power generation DECREASED fuel efficiency of the engine, is that not an acceptable loss in regards to the amount you save my inducing your fuel with HHO?

I feel as if so many people say different things in regards to the HHO gas/application as a whole. I wish there was a resource

Can HHO not be used to power an engine TOTALLY (with proper modifications to the engine that is) ?

Does Anyone have that "magical" formula to calculate how many LPM of HHO an engine would need? Say a 5.7L V8?

[jriggs_18]

if the power generation DECREASED fuel efficiency of the engine, is that not an acceptable loss in regards to the amount you save my inducing your fuel with HHO?

I feel as if so many people say different things in regards to the HHO gas/application as a whole. I wish there was a resource

Can HHO not be used to power an engine TOTALLY (with proper modifications to the engine that is) ?

Does Anyone have that "magical" formula to calculate how many LPM of HHO an engine would need? Say a 5.7L V8?

sure you can run your 5.7 off HHO only, but there is a catch

The thing is most or all hho'ers arent acheiving OU yet, so that means you need a power source to generate the hho. That means you have to have a power source to generate the hho, thats fine a stationary generator could do just that, well now wait a minute--that would take dino gas wouldnt it? Well I guess that leaves us with this, unless you can create more hho (chemical energy) than input energy (electrical energy in most cases) you cannot run a car on hho.

Dont get me wrong, I think it is possible to run an engine on HHO with no other source of energy, but we arent there yet!!!!

[Dave Nowlin]

I'm really a newbie here and have much to learn. That said, a totally selfsustaining HHO system (1) could have no mechanical losses (2) really isn't practical (3) the most practical application seems to be some fuel savings and a cleaner environment. If that is all we accomplish, who among you can say we are losers for our efforts and accomplishments.

Dave Nowlin

[coffeeachiever]

Gavin,
Overunity is the Holy Grail. While most of us agree that it exists, none of us yet are the Indiana Jones that found it. Yes you can run your car on HHO. Stan Meyer claimed to have done it. If he told the truth, his secret died with him(or whoever else knows has been silenced). While the generators we make increase our vehicle's efficiency, it is my opinion that they are not the answer to overunity.

[gavinmacrae]

i totally agree.

OU is the holy grail, but this time were not running from the nazi's, were running from exxon and shell in search for the lost treasure heheh SORRY i got a little adventurous there :P


Another thing, what was the BIG mystery about stan meyers water car? What secret did he take to the grave? Did Meyers discover OU, thus making his car reality? or was he onto something else?

Was it the resonance freq of water, or his electrical setup or what is the missing link ?


hope to pick your brain if you have a few minutes to share :)

[jriggs_18]

i totally agree.

OU is the holy grail, but this time were not running from the nazi's, were running from exxon and shell in search for the lost treasure heheh SORRY i got a little adventurous there :P


Another thing, what was the BIG mystery about stan meyers water car? What secret did he take to the grave? Did Meyers discover OU, thus making his car reality? or was he onto something else?

Was it the resonance freq of water, or his electrical setup or what is the missing link ?


hope to pick your brain if you have a few minutes to share :)
The big secret to meyers water car is how it worked.

From what Ive read, it was the combination of resonance and electronic combo that he used, one thing ive always wondered about his supposed water buggy was that he claimed it used plain tap water....not distilled, de-ionized, etc. I havent devoted alot of my research time to his work, but im just starting to read alittle about his ideas....but im sure someone will be here shortly to that could tell you more about him than i can